Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Legbiter]

I think the best thing to do is just declare that the UK can leave whenever it wants (like maybe never, whatever) just for that reason. Trying to move around deadlines nobody follows just to try to influence politics is a waste of time and political capital.

Yeah just make Brexit a vague destination that everyone is fully committed to of course and then go argue over something else. Iceland applied for EU membership in the wake of the 2008 crash, the nation neatly divided into two roughly equal camps, for and against, everyone screamed at each other and then a new government took over which quietly shelved the whole thing without any drama. As far as anyone can make out, the pros and cons of joining the EU is parked in a committee somewhere which will deliberate on this weighty issue and issue a recommendation sometime in the next 400 years or so. Further discussion awaits after that.

[The Brain]

The EU should just offer a no strings attached 5 (or whatever is left) year extension well covering time after the next election, then Johnson would have to deny that publicly, which would put the blame on him or accept that there will have to be a new election before the decision is finally made.

I don't think the EU should get involved in UK politics. The UK is going to blame the EU for any and all problems associated with Brexit regardless of what the EU does.

[Threviel]

Yeah, unfortunately I think you are correct Brainy. Just as a final fuck you the EU should run a huge campaign in the UK explaining what happened.

[Valmy]

Yeah, unfortunately I think you are correct Brainy. Just as a final fuck you the EU should run a huge campaign in the UK explaining what happened.

Hey this might be just what the EU needs: a common enemy that all members can hate.

[Barrister]

The EU should just offer a no strings attached 5 (or whatever is left) year extension well covering time after the next election, then Johnson would have to deny that publicly, which would put the blame on him or accept that there will have to be a new election before the decision is finally made.

I don't think the EU should get involved in UK politics. The UK is going to blame the EU for any and all problems associated with Brexit regardless of what the EU does.

How is saying "Look a hard Brexit will harm both of us, so if you want it UK you can have another extension".

[The Brain]

The EU should just offer a no strings attached 5 (or whatever is left) year extension well covering time after the next election, then Johnson would have to deny that publicly, which would put the blame on him or accept that there will have to be a new election before the decision is finally made.

I don't think the EU should get involved in UK politics. The UK is going to blame the EU for any and all problems associated with Brexit regardless of what the EU does.

How is saying "Look a hard Brexit will harm both of us, so if you want it UK you can have another extension".

" well covering time after the next election, then Johnson would have to deny that publicly, which would put the blame on him or accept that there will have to be a new election before the decision is finally made"

In addition I think there are other reasons too why giving extensions is a bad idea, even if not done for UK political purposes. For one, time has never been the problem on the UK side, they have had enough time. More time won't change things.

[Barrister]

" well covering time after the next election, then Johnson would have to deny that publicly, which would put the blame on him or accept that there will have to be a new election before the decision is finally made"

In addition I think there are other reasons too why giving extensions is a bad idea, even if not done for UK political purposes. For one, time has never been the problem on the UK side, they have had enough time. More time won't change things.

More time allows for the "keep delaying it until everyone forgets about it" option Legbiter mentioned above.

[The Brain]

" well covering time after the next election, then Johnson would have to deny that publicly, which would put the blame on him or accept that there will have to be a new election before the decision is finally made"

In addition I think there are other reasons too why giving extensions is a bad idea, even if not done for UK political purposes. For one, time has never been the problem on the UK side, they have had enough time. More time won't change things.

More time allows for the "keep delaying it until everyone forgets about it" option Legbiter mentioned above.

My impression is that now the UK is a toxic presence in the EU, and a Johnson UK doubly so. If Orban was taking Hungary out of the EU I wouldn't try to delay/avoid that either.

[Barrister]

" well covering time after the next election, then Johnson would have to deny that publicly, which would put the blame on him or accept that there will have to be a new election before the decision is finally made"

In addition I think there are other reasons too why giving extensions is a bad idea, even if not done for UK political purposes. For one, time has never been the problem on the UK side, they have had enough time. More time won't change things.

More time allows for the "keep delaying it until everyone forgets about it" option Legbiter mentioned above.

My impression is that now the UK is a toxic presence in the EU, and a Johnson UK doubly so. If Orban was taking Hungary out of the EU I wouldn't try to delay/avoid that either.

Well yes - if the EU actively wants the UK out, then an extension would be counter-productive.

I assume that they don't actually want the UK out.

[Valmy]

I mean they do but they don't.

[The Brain]

" well covering time after the next election, then Johnson would have to deny that publicly, which would put the blame on him or accept that there will have to be a new election before the decision is finally made"

In addition I think there are other reasons too why giving extensions is a bad idea, even if not done for UK political purposes. For one, time has never been the problem on the UK side, they have had enough time. More time won't change things.

More time allows for the "keep delaying it until everyone forgets about it" option Legbiter mentioned above.

My impression is that now the UK is a toxic presence in the EU, and a Johnson UK doubly so. If Orban was taking Hungary out of the EU I wouldn't try to delay/avoid that either.

Well yes - if the EU actively wants the UK out, then an extension would be counter-productive.

I assume that they don't actually want the UK out.

The governments probably don't but I don't think they want the UK in at any cost either. Many citizens are tired of the UK's BS and are quite happy with the UK taking off for those unicorn-infested sunny uplands. For the EU governments there are much bigger things at stake than the UK: the whole EU project. My guess and my hope is that the EU doesn't jeopardize the EU's credibility in the vain hope of the UK coming to its senses. A dysfunctional UK with a festering wound of an issue and not-invalid domestic cries of lack of democracy doesn't strike me as a good continuing long-term EU member. And Johnson in particular is just a common liar that you cannot really deal with since he is slime and gives zero fucks about his word.

[Josquius]

I note news articles have taken to speaking of a rebel alliance standing against no deal.

I like this.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Is Ken Clarke our Yoda?

[Valmy]

I note news articles have taken to speaking of a rebel alliance standing against no deal.

I like this.

Good. I think the majority in the UK, both pro or anti Brexit, can at least agree on that.

[Valmy]

The governments probably don't but I don't think they want the UK in at any cost either. Many citizens are tired of the UK's BS and are quite happy with the UK taking off for those unicorn-infested sunny uplands. For the EU governments there are much bigger things at stake than the UK: the whole EU project. My guess and my hope is that the EU doesn't jeopardize the EU's credibility in the vain hope of the UK coming to its senses. A dysfunctional UK with a festering wound of an issue and not-invalid domestic cries of lack of democracy doesn't strike me as a good continuing long-term EU member. And Johnson in particular is just a common liar that you cannot really deal with since he is slime and gives zero fucks about his word.

I mean...you are not saying anything untrue