Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Josquius]

To be fair that's the mirror. Voice of the working class. Not exactly a pro brexit paper.

I wonder what the brexit cheerleaders are making of it. They're still yelling scare story at everything they don't like?

[celedhring]

I really cannot see it getting past the Commons under current circumstances.

In "taking back control" (hah!) vein I think that Tusk and Juncker could easily influence the Commons vote.

ie if the dynamic duo say that it is May's deal or no deal - then May may be able to get Labour remainers to back her deal.

Conversely, if they indicate that the UK can row back on Leaving, then I think remainer MPs will hope for the prize and vote May's deal down.

So far they appear to have been quiet 

Pretty sure Juncker et al already said that there was no room for another negotiation. The Brexiters might think they are bluffing and push for no, but that train of thought usually leads to tears everywhere.

[HisMajestyBOB]

https://twitter.com/m2matthijs/status/1067824093922131968?s=09

[Syt]

https://twitter.com/garius/status/1068112996961009664

[Richard Hakluyt]

 

Spreadsheet Phil gets a lot of venom directed at him and all for telling the truth.

[Tamas]

telling the truth.

Always a fatal mistake in politics.

[celedhring]

telling the truth.

Always a fatal mistake in politics.

That's one of the negative reinforcements that makes me seriously pessimistic about the world's political future. Being honest never gets you elected, so we end up with hoodwinkers of several degrees at the helm.

[Tamas]

telling the truth.

Always a fatal mistake in politics.

That's one of the negative reinforcements that makes me seriously pessimistic about the world's political future. Being honest never gets you elected, so we end up with hoodwinkers of several degrees at the helm.

I don't think that was ever vastly different. e.g. don't American kids are tought something like Lincoln said he'd never told a lie? Come on. 

I wonder if part of it is that we are creating systems that try to fight vested interest, i.e. groups of power-behind-the-power forming, but then you get people who have no vested interest in keeping the system going. They just want to grab as much as they can as fast as they can without regard to what gets broken in the process.

[Valmy]

I don't think that was ever vastly different. e.g. don't American kids are tought something like Lincoln said he'd never told a lie? Come on. 

Washington. But that comes from the school of educational philosophy where history is not taught to transmit information but, rather, values. So real people, like Washington and Jefferson, get turned into vehicles to teach certain civic virtues. But that is just for grade school kids, no adults believe Washington really never told a lie. I mean he ran an international spy network during the American Revolution

[Tamas]

Washington. But that comes from the school of educational philosophy where history is not taught to transmit information but, rather, values. So real people, like Washington and Jefferson, get turned into vehicles to teach certain civic virtues.

I think that'd be frowned upon by progressives in Europe. Although I am not sure I'd agree with them.

[Valmy]

Washington. But that comes from the school of educational philosophy where history is not taught to transmit information but, rather, values. So real people, like Washington and Jefferson, get turned into vehicles to teach certain civic virtues.

I think that'd be frowned upon by progressives in Europe. Although I am not sure I'd agree with them.

It has its pluses and negatives. I mean one is that actual history is not really learned since that is not why history is taught. Secondly when people, for example, discover Jefferson did certain shady things it feels threatening to an entire value system in a way that otherwise might make no sense. On the other hand, personification of certain values makes them more effective to transmit. I mean the Jefferson Memorial is more about the Jefferson Civic Legend(tm) than the actual man who was a pretty complicated person.

[celedhring]

telling the truth.

Always a fatal mistake in politics.

That's one of the negative reinforcements that makes me seriously pessimistic about the world's political future. Being honest never gets you elected, so we end up with hoodwinkers of several degrees at the helm.

I don't think that was ever vastly different. e.g. don't American kids are tought something like Lincoln said he'd never told a lie? Come on. 

I wonder if part of it is that we are creating systems that try to fight vested interest, i.e. groups of power-behind-the-power forming, but then you get people who have no vested interest in keeping the system going. They just want to grab as much as they can as fast as they can without regard to what gets broken in the process.

Indeed lying politicians have been a feature since long, but lately they seem to be forced to raise their bets in a race to the bottom of imposture. Twenty years ago a politician would promise to lower taxes and then he wouldn't, or invest more in education, and then he wouldn't. Now we get promised stuff like Brexit or the Catalan Independence which are utterly disrupting for societies when those things ultimately become the clusterfucks they obviously were all along.

[Tamas]

True.

[Josquius]

A third letter from my MP. Finally a proper reply. He will oppose May's deal. He's worried about no deal but if that option can be cut off....
Just hoping for something good to come out of Europe along the recently discussed lines of more negotiations and a better (i.e. more permanently Norwayesque) deal.

https://twitter.com/m2matthijs/status/1067824093922131968?s=09

Jesus christ. What the fuck is wrong with people.
Supporting brexit makes you enough of an absolute fucking moron unless you're fabulously rich and have invested in a certain way.
But no deal?

[Richard Hakluyt]

The ECJ advocate-general reckons that the UK can unilaterally withdraw from the article 50 exit process :

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/brexit-britain-can-unilaterally-revoke-article-50-ecj-advocate-general-1.3719490