Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[garbon]

However what we have in Khan and the like is a grade 2 muslim; yet he goes around calling himself a muslim where a grade 2 christian wouldn't.
We get this and don't group him in with the grade 8s. Though if someone proclaims thenmselves a christian...then the initial assumption is they are from the higher end of the scale.

Really? Huh. I mean I guess I figured in the Church of England even some members of the clergy are pretty low grade. So this strikes me as an odd assumption to make.

Church of England seems to be generally pretty low key. An average congregant doesn't go around talking about their religion to the same extent that Christian Americans do.

[Josquius]

Really? Huh. I mean I guess I figured in the Church of England even some members of the clergy are pretty low grade. So this strikes me as an odd assumption to make.

This sort of scale doesn't work really. I guess we'd be really looking at more of a compass with 2 separate measurements, one for how religious you are and one for how much of a dick you are about it. CoE clergy would score in the top end of the scale for how religious they are but generally very low for dickishness, probably even below irreligious people on average (many of the nastier ones having defected to other churches).
But I hope my point was understood anyway :p

Though if someone proclaims thenmselves a christian...then the initial assumption is they are from the higher end of the scale.

Why?

As I said in my earlier post.
The UK was until half a century ago or so a majority christian country*, most people in the UK come from traditionally christian families.
Its just the generic norm. If you feel the need to highlight that you are christian then you are saying that your religiosity is more than the usual.

*on paper it officially still is, when it comes to the census a lot of people will do similar to muslims and tick the box for christian automatically. However this never comes out in day to day life.

[dps]

Islam is in the middle of its reformation right now. That's a big part of the volatility in the middle east.

I tend to think that you're correct about this.  Islam doesn't need a reformation, it needs a renaissance.

Hopefully, if we take the establishment of Saudi Arabia as Martin Luther, then Daesh is the 30 years war and the enlightenment isn't far off.

And I hope you're right about this.

[Tamas]

https://www.economist.com/britain/2018/08/04/the-dangerous-delusion-of-no-deal-brexit

[Valmy]

https://www.economist.com/britain/2018/08/04/the-dangerous-delusion-of-no-deal-brexit

Fear mongering! 10,000 unicorns for all!

Brexiteers may call this Project Fear 2.0, but the evidence is against them.

Evidence? 

Anyway all this talk about enlightenment coming to Islam, here is hoping it returns to Britain at some point soon.

[crazy canuck]

I could still get behind Brexit if the Brits were going to use it as a means to block the Islamicization of Britain, but I think that's basically a done deal. When you have a Muslim as the mayor of your largest city it's obviously too late.

Why do you think a Muslim mayor is worse than a Christian one, exactly? (or a Jewish one or a Bahá'i one, but I'll keep the question simple)

Because Islam is incompatible in every sense with Western values, and represent probably the greatest threat to human rights, democratic ideals, and the entire Western order as we know it. The only safe future for the West is one in which Islam is not seen as a weird "ethnic/racial" identifier--for it is not, even though many globalists are desperate to extend modern views against racial and ethnic bigotry to embracing Islam and Muslims; instead Islam should be rightfully seen as what it is. It is not an ethnicity, it is not a race, it is not a sexual orientation, it is not an intrinsic part of someone's humanity. It is a learned ideology. It is a pernicious, dangerous, violent learned ideology, and belief in its tenets and acceptance of those values should rightly be seen as equivalent to acceptance and belief in the values of Nazism. That is to say, publicly espousing that you hold these views should make it disqualifying for you to participate in Western society. Governments should seek to trample it out, and it should be an absolute disqualifier for immigration (America made being a Nazi a general disqualification for immigration after WWII, for example.)

I wonder how the Muslim mayor of Calgary has been able to hold office for 8 years and counting.  Now if we want to point to something that represents the greatest threat to the entire Western order - look no further than your President and the Republicans who support him. 

[OttoVonBismarck]

Yeah keep telling yourself they're just like us.

[mongers]

Yeah keep telling yourself they're just like us.

I think most of them aren't like you, the ones you fear and warn against seem to be quite similar to yourself.

[Jacob]

Yeah keep telling yourself they're just like us.

You're a bigoted troll.

There are also Muslim bigoted trolls.

Therefore, you are just like them and they are just like you.

QED

[Josquius]

I really would like a straight answer to my question.
Daesh are on record as specifically stating that they want to encourage Islamophobic policies in the west in order to win muslims over to their side for the prophesied grand religious war.
I get how the dumber segments of the far right can be ignorant of this.
But how do you OVB fit this fact around your views?

[Syt]

I really would like a straight answer to my question.
Daesh are on record as specifically stating that they want to encourage Islamophobic policies in the west in order to win muslims over to their side for the prophesied grand religious war.
I get how the dumber segments of the far right can be ignorant of this.
But how do you OVB fit this fact around your views?

Why makes you think that he considers a grand religious war for the eradication of Islam is a bad thing?

[Tamas]

Boris continues to position himself as the British Trump, dashes out a lame and lazy insult at burka-ed ladies (liking them to post boxes and bank robbers). Predictable debate and outrage ensues.

I do find it somewhat interesting that even supposedly moderate Muslims like a Lord from the Tory party is outraged and considers all Muslims insulted. Some of them do seem to point out the burka is a radicalist thing with no general Muslim relevance though to be fair.


This also kind of reflects on my earlier speculation, interestingly enough. It is summertime of course but presently both big political parties are embroiled in something Islam-related. The Johnsos bafoonery, and the anti-semitism row. I am quite convinced Labor is so lukewarm and wishy-washy on their denial of anti-semitism because they are thinking strategically, and they know such a reputation can gain not just lose votes for them, and that they can expect to have more supporters with backgrounds in the Muslim world. If you want to be on them not integrating fully in terms of world views, you want to be considered critical of Israel and Jews.

And before I get nasty remarks on that speculation: IIRC even a recent Economist article at least hinted at that as a possible consideration. I mean, heck, if you wanted to court East European votes as well you wouldn't go past a point dulling your "anti-zionist" opinions.


All in all, I think it would be hard to deny that directly or indirectly, Islam and it's role in British society is now a considerable portion of British political discourse and life.

[Tamas]

I really would like a straight answer to my question.
Daesh are on record as specifically stating that they want to encourage Islamophobic policies in the west in order to win muslims over to their side for the prophesied grand religious war.
I get how the dumber segments of the far right can be ignorant of this.
But how do you OVB fit this fact around your views?

The kind of policies you talk about are things the far-right would want regardless of Isis or islamists. I don't think they are bothered one bit at the thought of how that flies with Isis.

[Josquius]

I really would like a straight answer to my question.
Daesh are on record as specifically stating that they want to encourage Islamophobic policies in the west in order to win muslims over to their side for the prophesied grand religious war.
I get how the dumber segments of the far right can be ignorant of this.
But how do you OVB fit this fact around your views?

Why makes you think that he considers a grand religious war for the eradication of Islam is a bad thing?

Sure.
But its what Daesh want.
Despite proclaiming themselves as the grand enemies of Islamic extremism, this clearly sets up Daesh and the fascists as co-ordinating towards the same end.
Why not just drop all pretense and follow the way football hooligans work (a lot of expertise there in the far right ranks) and just setup communication lines with Islamic extremists to specially arrange rucks.

[Tamas]

I really would like a straight answer to my question.
Daesh are on record as specifically stating that they want to encourage Islamophobic policies in the west in order to win muslims over to their side for the prophesied grand religious war.
I get how the dumber segments of the far right can be ignorant of this.
But how do you OVB fit this fact around your views?

Why makes you think that he considers a grand religious war for the eradication of Islam is a bad thing?

Sure.
But its what Daesh want.
Despite proclaiming themselves as the grand enemies of Islamic extremism, this clearly sets up Daesh and the fascists as co-ordinating towards the same end.
Why not just drop all pretense and follow the way football hooligans work (a lot of expertise there in the far right ranks) and just setup communication lines with Islamic extremists to specially arrange rucks.

Well, islamists want to provoke confrontation between the majority societies and the parallel Muslim minority ones to enhance their power base, and eventually to overtake those countries.

Far-right wants the same escalation but for THEM to take power and shape the country to their liking, so an alliance is impossible.