Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Josquius]

I agree mostly with Zanza but France and Germany do collectively export over $100 billion per year to the UK; it's also in their geostrategic interest that the UK be healthy and stable, and not ruled by either Right Wing Nutcase (Johnson) or Left Wing Nutcase (Corbyn).  The UK needs a decent deal more than Rest of EU (bar Ireland) but there is still good reason for the EU to make some reasonable compromise.  The question is whether the Tory Party's toxic politics will permit a deal with only reasonable compromises.

You can't compare Corbyn to the Tory right.
Though Corbyn himself is very left wing he is a democrat, he is not pushing his views rather is representing the labour average consensus, which is a pretty moderate social democratic one.
I guess you have to be when you're looking to build something. What the tory right want to accomplish, knocking stuff down, is far easier

[garbon]

Okay, now take off the rose colored glasses and try again.

[mongers]

Okay, now take off the rose colored glasses and try again.

And what tint might you suggest for best viewing this Tory 'government' with?

[Tamas]

One thing Tyr is right in is that Corbyn has dialed down the Chavez-like shit to represent what they think the leftist consensus is.

But that's hardly a surprise or a guarantee. The question is what he will do in power, and I am having a hard time imagining a life-long professional protester, and admired of Hamas and the IRA, not to mention Chavez, just throwing all that out and becoming Blair 2.0 when he gets power finally. How old is he,  70? What would he be holding back for?

[garbon]

Okay, now take off the rose colored glasses and try again.

And what tint might you suggest for best viewing this Tory 'government' with?

[The Minsky Moment]

One thing Tyr is right in is that Corbyn has dialed down the Chavez-like shit to represent what they think the leftist consensus is.

But that's hardly a surprise or a guarantee. The question is what he will do in power, and I am having a hard time imagining a life-long professional protester, and admired of Hamas and the IRA, not to mention Chavez, just throwing all that out and becoming Blair 2.0 when he gets power finally. How old is he,  70? What would he be holding back for?

Tyr - this.  It's a gamble.
There was an FT editorial recently on this very subject:  https://www.ft.com/content/297a0306-93da-11e8-b747-fb1e803ee64e

Voters should take at his word a man whose world view is underpinned by anti-Americanism, who wants to scrap the nuclear deterrent and leave Nato. They should assume that invaluable US intelligence-sharing arrangements will be scrapped, if not by him then by the US.

Mr Corbyn has described Nato as a "very dangerous Frankenstein" and a "danger to world peace". In last year's election he refused to disavow those views. Labour moderates and voters who think that in power Mr Corbyn and his acolytes will compromise their long-held views should look at the anti-Semitism row. Is this a man ready to water down positions he has held for decades for mere expediency?

The same will be true on domestic economic policy. When shadow chancellor John McDonnell raises the spectre of capital controls, we should take him seriously. When, after the Grenfell tower fire, Mr Corbyn talked of seizing privately owned homes to rehouse the survivors, people should assume this reflected his view. We should believe him when he said he would raise taxes, follow protectionist trade policies and sweep away laws banning secondary picketing.

Hysterical? Maybe, but is it worth taking the risk?

[Razgovory]

Were I British, I'm not sure I could bring myself to vote for either Tory or the Labor party.  If the choice is to pick between two types of Hate, Antsemitism or Islamophobia, I don't pick at all.  I'd vote that libertarian-type party before tolerate the hate-mongers.

[Valmy]

If I were British I would be voting for the Liberal Democrats all along anyway....what is left of them.

[garbon]

If I were British I would be voting for the Liberal Democrats all along anyway....what is left of them.

Well yeah after coalition government and Tim Fallon's 'sympathetic' dislike of homosexuality, they are hardly worth considering.

[Valmy]

If I were British I would be voting for the Liberal Democrats all along anyway....what is left of them.

Well yeah after coalition government and Tim Fallon's 'sympathetic' dislike of homosexuality, they are hardly worth considering.

Small sins compared to Labour and the Tories. Besides Fallon's thing was about him, not the party.

And why would I vote for the Tories if I had a problem with the coalition government?

[garbon]

I'm not saying you should. I'm saying the lib dems stand for basically nothing.

[Razgovory]

I'm not saying you should. I'm saying the lib dems stand for basically nothing.

That puts them head and shoulders above the party of Brexit and Brexit-light.  As unpleasant as Trump is he has yet to do something as destructive as Brexit.

[Zanza]

The risks are far greater than economic disruption.

Crashing out of the EU without a deal could be the first step in a ten-step process of becoming a rogue state.

Looking at what many brexit foot-soldiers say, they want the sort of "sovereignty" enjoyed by North Korea; ie Britain does whatever the fuck it wants and the rest of the world looks on aghast.

Just because the situation is bad doesn't mean it can't get a lot worse.

It's easy to imagine such a scenario. After May falls over a no deal, Boris or Rees-Mogg cut all ties to the EU, then in 2022 Corbyn is elected and cuts all ties to NATO... Britain would then have given up both of its post-war foreign policy pillars in a short time...

[Razgovory]

As evil as this sounds, I kinda want to see a hard Brexit.  I want Britain to be a cautionary tale for the rest of the world.

[Valmy]

I worry that the nationalists will do horrible nationalist type shit if they do not get their way. Those types typically consider themselves not dominating everybody else as a gross act of tyranny.