Shootings and explosions in Paris

[Berkut]

I suspect that if the best you can do in outrage is something as mealy mouthed as "that kind of sounds racist", then the problem is with you more than someone else.

Racism is a pretty terrible thing, and it exists and should be aggressively fought, or it does not exist and cannot be described as "kind of sounds racist".

If you are trying that hard to be outraged, I suspect the issue is internal.

Someone fleeing the civil war in the Ukraine should be treated just the same, because otherwise it is "kind of maybe sorta racist oh dear golly". So you are going to speak to them both in the same language? Going to assume they both have the same dietary needs, and would like to live in the same housing arrangement? Assume they both present the exact same security risks?

[Admiral Yi]

But if you say that someone fleeing civil war in, say, Eastern Ukraine, should be treated differently from someone fleeing civil war in Syria, I'm going to say yeah, that kind of sounds racist.

When you say it sounds kind of racist, do you mean the probability of these people engaging in religiously inspired violence, or impacting their new country negatively in some other way, is identical?

[Barrister]

I suspect that if the best you can do in outrage is something as mealy mouthed as "that kind of sounds racist", then the problem is with you more than someone else.

Racism is a pretty terrible thing, and it exists and should be aggressively fought, or it does not exist and cannot be described as "kind of sounds racist".

If you are trying that hard to be outraged, I suspect the issue is internal.

Someone fleeing the civil war in the Ukraine should be treated just the same, because otherwise it is "kind of maybe sorta racist oh dear golly". So you are going to speak to them both in the same language? Going to assume they both have the same dietary needs, and would like to live in the same housing arrangement? Assume they both present the exact same security risks?

I say "sounds kind of racist" it's because I want to give someone an "out".

If you want to treat my hypothetical differently because one requires service in Ukrainian/Russian, while the other requires services in Arabic?  Okay yes you got me - they should eb treated differently in that respect.  The Ukrainian refugee is going to enjoy eating pyrogies more than the Syrian refugee, so food aid should be different as well.

"Are they both going to present the exact same security risks"?  I would say you damn well better do what you can to screen both groups for security risks.

[Barrister]

But if you say that someone fleeing civil war in, say, Eastern Ukraine, should be treated differently from someone fleeing civil war in Syria, I'm going to say yeah, that kind of sounds racist.

When you say it sounds kind of racist, do you mean the probability of these people engaging in religiously inspired violence, or impacting their new country negatively in some other way, is identical?

The risk of religiously inspired violence, or more generally impacting their new country negatively, is much more individualized.  Drawing sweeping generalizations based on colour of skin, religion, or country of origin, is simply not useful.  You ought to take steps to ensure that both groups are not tied to negative groups (radical terrorism in Syria's case, organized-crime/FSB plant in the other).  YOu ought to take steps to ensure both groups are positively engaged in the new country.

[Valmy]

So Euros preferring other Euros is racist? Is it racist when Arabs prefer other Arabs?

Or maybe it is. But expecting people to not react to ethnicity in a part of the world where ethnicity is supreme is a lot to ask.

[dps]

If you're concerned about Muslim immigration separately and apart from immigration of other peoples and religions, it kind of does mean you're a bit racist.  You're specifically judging immigrants based on their ethnic background or religious belief.

Asking people to not judge others based on what they believe sounds pretty unreasonable.

Asking individuals not to make private, personal judgments is unreasonable.  Asking that everyone be treated equally in the sight of the law isn't.

[Admiral Yi]

Asking individuals not to make private, personal judgments is unreasonable.  Asking that everyone be treated equally in the sight of the law isn't.

US immigration law treats people very differently depending on their country of origin.

[dps]

Asking individuals not to make private, personal judgments is unreasonable.  Asking that everyone be treated equally in the sight of the law isn't.

US immigration law treats people very differently depending on their country of origin.

Don't make it right.

[Admiral Yi]

Don't make it right.

How so?  If 50% of people from Country X jump ship when they come here for "tourism" and 0% of people from Country Y do, why should we pretend they act the same?

[dps]

Don't make it right.

How so?  If 50% of people from Country X jump ship when they come here for "tourism" and 0% of people from Country Y do, why should we pretend they act the same?

Uhm, people jumping ship when they come here on tourist visas doesn't really have anything to do with legal immigration.  I was talking more about the quota system.

[Razgovory]

Don't make it right.

How so?  If 50% of people from Country X jump ship when they come here for "tourism" and 0% of people from Country Y do, why should we pretend they act the same?

Well, at one time they wouldn't people like you in.

[Admiral Yi]

Well, at one time they wouldn't people like you in.

There was a time when US citizens born overseas were not allowed in?

[Ancient Demon]

What about you - are you "perfectly happy to accept Syrian refugees, as long as they are Christian"?

Even if you are, saying "discriminating based on ethnic group is wrong, but discriminating based on religion is A-OK" is strongly out of line with how most people view tolerance and human rights.

I don't think most people agree that a country being in conflict means that everyone in that country is equally qualified for refugee status. Christians and other minorities are being persecuted in the Middle East, while conservative Muslims are not. There's considerable frustration over the fact that almost all "refugees" from the region are the latter.

[Ed Anger]

Don't make it right.

How so?  If 50% of people from Country X jump ship when they come here for "tourism" and 0% of people from Country Y do, why should we pretend they act the same?

Well, at one time they wouldn't people like you in.

RACISS

[Razgovory]

Well, at one time they wouldn't people like you in.

There was a time when US citizens born overseas were not allowed in?

Yeah, if they came in from Asia.  Good luck explaining that you really are an American citizen you just weren't born there when you arrive on a boat in 1910 without a passport.