Shootings and explosions in Paris

[Admiral Yi]

Yeah, if they came in from Asia.  Good luck explaining that you really are an American citizen you just weren't born there when you arrive on a boat in 1910 without a passport.

You don't seem to care when you post something that is transparently false.  It is one of the qualities that makes you a difficult interlocuter.

[Razgovory]

Yeah, if they came in from Asia.  Good luck explaining that you really are an American citizen you just weren't born there when you arrive on a boat in 1910 without a passport.

You don't seem to care when you post something that is transparently false.  It is one of the qualities that makes you a difficult interlocuter.

Dude, you could be born in this country and not get citizenship because you were Asian.  Asians also couldn't naturalize at certain times.  If they left, they were rarely allowed back in.  The big Supreme Court ruling on birthright citizenship comes from one these cases.

[Admiral Yi]

Dude, you could be born in this country and not get citizenship because you were Asian.  Asians also couldn't naturalize at certain times.  If they left, they were rarely allowed back in.  The big Supreme Court ruling on birthright citizenship comes from one these cases.

We weren't talking about the difficulties Asians had acquiring citizenship.  We were talking about US citizens born overseas not being allowed into the country.

[Razgovory]

Dude, you could be born in this country and not get citizenship because you were Asian.  Asians also couldn't naturalize at certain times.  If they left, they were rarely allowed back in.  The big Supreme Court ruling on birthright citizenship comes from one these cases.

We weren't talking about the difficulties Asians had acquiring citizenship.  We were talking about US citizens born overseas not being allowed into the country.

Oh for fuck's sake,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark  This guy was Born in the US, had citizenship, and left and was denied entry.
He was eventually let in when it went to the Supreme Court.  So apparently at one time, having citizenship was insufficient for entry for Asian-Americans.

[Valmy]

Yi is ethnically Chinese? Huh.

In any case his citizenship was not established, which was the whole point of the case. It was the 19th century, citizenship was a weirdly undefined thing back then.

[Admiral Yi]

Oh for fuck's sake,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark  This guy was Born in the US, had citizenship, and left and was denied entry.
He was eventually let in when it went to the Supreme Court.  So apparently at one time, having citizenship was insufficient for entry for Asian-Americans.

For fuck's sake yourself.  You're still not talking about US citizens born overseas.

[Jacob]

Oh for fuck's sake,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark  This guy was Born in the US, had citizenship, and left and was denied entry.
He was eventually let in when it went to the Supreme Court.  So apparently at one time, having citizenship was insufficient for entry for Asian-Americans.

For fuck's sake yourself.  You're still not talking about US citizens born overseas.

Would the son of a white American missionary and a local woman in Korea get US citizenship to begin with in the time period in question? I was under the impression that that sort of thing wasn't encouraged, but it's just that - an impression.

[Admiral Yi]

Would the son of a white American missionary and a local woman in Korea get US citizenship to begin with in the time period in question? I was under the impression that that sort of thing wasn't encouraged, but it's just that - an impression.

Beats me.

[Razgovory]

Oh for fuck's sake,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark  This guy was Born in the US, had citizenship, and left and was denied entry.
He was eventually let in when it went to the Supreme Court.  So apparently at one time, having citizenship was insufficient for entry for Asian-Americans.

For fuck's sake yourself.  You're still not talking about US citizens born overseas.

I'm talking about American citizens.  Do you think it would it would improve you chances to be born in Korea rather than the US?  Are you arguing that the Americans born overseas have rights that ones born here do not? 

[grumbler]

Would the son of a white American missionary and a local woman in Korea get US citizenship to begin with in the time period in question? I was under the impression that that sort of thing wasn't encouraged, but it's just that - an impression.

Yes.  The law was changed in the 1980s to require that the citizen-parent have resided in the US for 5 years, but before that it was pretty much automatic.  I believe that the citizen-child had to expressly take on the US citizenship and renounce the non-citizen-parent's nationality as the law existed before 1985 (some exceptions existing), though.

[Valmy]

Would the son of a white American missionary and a local woman in Korea get US citizenship to begin with in the time period in question? I was under the impression that that sort of thing wasn't encouraged, but it's just that - an impression.

Maybe. See there was a requirement that you had to be either white or black to be a US citizen so for a long time there were rather embarrassing court cases trying to establish who got to be 'white'. Syrians, by American law, are white people. So they could have fled their country with no problem back in the 19th century. I don't remember what ended that.

However if, as Yi is saying, his citizenship had been established then he would have been fine. Or actually if he was living in Iowa at the time nobody would have cared. It is not like there were Visas or Green Cards or illegal immigrants being deported from Iowa in the 19th Century. I had many ancestors who just moved to the midwest and lived their entire lives without ever bothering to be naturalized.

[Razgovory]

I think I made my case pretty well.  That people like Yi (Americans of East-Asian descent) could be prevented from entering this country even if they were natural born citizens. At the very least it is is not, "transparently false".

[Admiral Yi]

I'm talking about American citizens.  Do you think it would it would improve you chances to be born in Korea rather than the US?  Are you arguing that the Americans born overseas have rights that ones born here do not?

So I finally read your wiki and it turns out your star witness was not a US citizen under the laws that obtained at the time.

There have been American missionaries in Asia since forever.  Pearl Buck was born in China, and it doesn't seem she had any trouble returning to the US in 1935.  There were missionary families in Korea in the 19th century, and none of their children had any difficulty entering the country.

You made the claim that US citizens born in Asia were denied entry to the US, but then you did your old bait and switch thing to start talking about the US not recognizing naturalization of Asians born in the US.  The first statement was a falsehood, and to repeat, it's irksome that you are totally indifferent to posting something which is simply not true.

[Valmy]

I think I made my case pretty well.  That people like Yi (Americans of East-Asian descent) could be prevented from entering this country even if they were natural born citizens. At the very least it is is not, "transparently false".

You reached back into the ancient past to discuss a law specifically designed to oppose the Chinese in California. Yi is neither Chinese nor does he live in California.

[Razgovory]

I'm talking about American citizens.  Do you think it would it would improve you chances to be born in Korea rather than the US?  Are you arguing that the Americans born overseas have rights that ones born here do not?

So I finally read your wiki and it turns out your star witness was not a US citizen under the laws that obtained at the time.

There have been American missionaries in Asia since forever.  Pearl Buck was born in China, and it doesn't seem she had any trouble returning to the US in 1935.  There were missionary families in Korea in the 19th century, and none of their children had any difficulty entering the country.

You made the claim that US citizens born in Asia were denied entry to the US, but then you did your old bait and switch thing to start talking about the US not recognizing naturalization of Asians born in the US.  The first statement was a falsehood, and to repeat, it's irksome that you are totally indifferent to posting something which is simply not true.

Pearl Buck was white. 

Your claim that my statement is a falsehood rests their being a legal difference between Jus soli and Jus sanguinis entering the US and that being  Jus sanguinis has priority.  My first statement was that people like you (Asian-Americans) were not into this country.  When you countered with that you had American citizenship due to birth, I counter that people with American citizenship could still be barred with entry, and provided a court case where this had happened.  Presumably you are going to narrow it down to people born with your name in the later half of the 20th century.