The Off Topic Topic

[Tamas]

Inheritance tax is evil

Flat tax is the only fair tax. "wealth gravitates toward wealth" You actually mean that it is easier to invest and save if you have money left after your costs of living?!!!! And that the more money you have left after costs, the more money you can invest or save?!!! THE HUMANITY!!!! This cannot remain as such!!!!

If we are not careful at rooting this abomination out, people will be able to start new businesses and create jobs themselves, instead of relying on loans made out of make-believe money.

Because that is totally what rich people usually do with their money....


I know very little of taxes but from what I gather this flat tax stuff seems absolutely silly.

Ok, so let's say they consume it. Which they don't, not all, at least, evidenced by the fact that we have factories, buildings, and the like. Does that spending entail flushing it down a vacuum? One man's spending is an other man's income.

One man's tax is another man's income, often spend on infrastructural projects no private actor could afford to invest in.  Try again.

Why is that when someone even remotely challenges you lefties' cosy view on economics and the world as large you retreat into thinking in extremes? Am I saying to abolish all taxes? No. I am saying that flat tax is the fair income tax. If you earn 1000x more than poor John Smith the factory worker, you pay 1000x more taxes than him. Everything else is socialist BS.

And as for your "taxes are spent better than private money" angle, I refer you to the economic history of the soviet states and their satellites.

[PDH]

I woke up and had coffee. The end.

[Neil]

Why is that when someone even remotely challenges you lefties' cosy view on economics and the world as large you retreat into thinking in extremes? Am I saying to abolish all taxes? No. I am saying that flat tax is the fair income tax. If you earn 1000x more than poor John Smith the factory worker, you pay 1000x more taxes than him. Everything else is socialist BS.

And as for your "taxes are spent better than private money" angle, I refer you to the economic history of the soviet states and their satellites.

Fairness isn't the most important factor here.  Social order is.

And don't try and bring up the Soviet bloc.  The reason you guys are so fucked up isn't socialism, but rather the backwardness and barbarism of your people.  Even back when you were on the free market, you guys were still so much less than us.

[Tamas]

Why is that when someone even remotely challenges you lefties' cosy view on economics and the world as large you retreat into thinking in extremes? Am I saying to abolish all taxes? No. I am saying that flat tax is the fair income tax. If you earn 1000x more than poor John Smith the factory worker, you pay 1000x more taxes than him. Everything else is socialist BS.

And as for your "taxes are spent better than private money" angle, I refer you to the economic history of the soviet states and their satellites.

Fairness isn't the most important factor here.  Social order is.

And don't try and bring up the Soviet bloc.  The reason you guys are so fucked up isn't socialism, but rather the backwardness and barbarism of your people.  Even back when you were on the free market, you guys were still so much less than us.

Shut up.

[PDH]

Then I had some toast and I went to work.

[Josquius]

Why is that when someone even remotely challenges you lefties' cosy view on economics and the world as large you retreat into thinking in extremes? Am I saying to abolish all taxes? No. I am saying that flat tax is the fair income tax. If you earn 1000x more than poor John Smith the factory worker, you pay 1000x more taxes than him. Everything else is socialist BS.

And as for your "taxes are spent better than private money" angle, I refer you to the economic history of the soviet states and their satellites.

You accuse Ide of retreating into extremes then bring up the soviets for proof of why being somewhere to the left of Reagan is a bad thing?

[Lettow77]

Tamas, the flat tax eats poor people. I have reason to believe you cackled in a sinister manner and rubbed your hands together in glee when you realized the poorest people of all in Hungary are the gypsies, and so would suffer the most from such a tax.

Of course, in your euphoria over what could have served as a penultimate solution to the Gypsy problem, you seem to have forgotten they are dangerous subhumans who can't be made to pay taxes.

[Admiral Yi]

Ok, so I guess we then just have to pretend this consideration doesn't exist, even though it is by far the most pertinent to the question at hand.

We don't have to pretend that anything doesn't exist.  A dollar's worth of difference in income will, over time, lead to inequality.

But that doesn't change the fact that you've defined the exacerbation of social differences in such a way that the only way to avoid is to leave everyone exactly the same amount of after tax income.

[Razgovory]

Shut up.

Good come back.

[Habbaku]

Inheritance tax is evil

Flat tax is the only fair tax. "wealth gravitates toward wealth" You actually mean that it is easier to invest and save if you have money left after your costs of living?!!!! And that the more money you have left after costs, the more money you can invest or save?!!! THE HUMANITY!!!! This cannot remain as such!!!!

If we are not careful at rooting this abomination out, people will be able to start new businesses and create jobs themselves, instead of relying on loans made out of make-believe money.

Because that is totally what rich people usually do with their money....


I know very little of taxes but from what I gather this flat tax stuff seems absolutely silly.

Ok, so let's say they consume it. Which they don't, not all, at least, evidenced by the fact that we have factories, buildings, and the like. Does that spending entail flushing it down a vacuum? One man's spending is an other man's income.

One man's tax is another man's income, often spend on infrastructural projects no private actor could afford to invest in.  Try again.

Because there are no private roads, bridges, hospitals, airports, docks, etc., right?

[Habbaku]

Shut up.

Good come back.

It's about all that Neil's worth.

[Habbaku]

Why is this argument in the OTT thread, anyway?

[Zanza]

No. I am saying that flat tax is the fair income tax. If you earn 1000x more than poor John Smith the factory worker, you pay 1000x more taxes than him. Everything else is socialist BS.

Proportional is already halfway to ability-to-pay regarding tax incidence. Why aren't you consequent and just make everybody pay the same absolute amount? That's a really flat tax.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Goin back to school! 

Well.  Sort of.  I found out one of the local private universities has completely online programs that I get this huge discount for simply because I'm a veteran.  Like...cheaper than the state universities, it appears (it's like $275 per credit hour, although for a lot of it I'll just be burning the last of my GI Bill).  Gives me something to do that doesn't involve work and another piece of paper in a little while.  Sweet. 

This place was actually my "fall back" when I first applied back a long time ago, but when I actually got in to...well...all of them, I sort of tossed their admittedly nice acceptance package aside and went to stmu after a minor detour through UTSA.

From


To


  Anyway, they also have a football team, so that's cool I guess.  D2 though, like stmu is.  It's kinda neat being able to walk around on the field.  The stadium is open and all that.  Field Turf.  Not as soft as the Alamodome, but still pretty nice.  Bonus points for being outside.

E:  Well, okay, UTSA was my true fall back, since any mouthbreather can get in there, but UIW was technically #2.  Our Lady of the Lake was where I was planning on going, and StMU was a sort of "I wonder if they'll take me" sort of thing.  OLLU's admissions didn't manage to send my an acceptance letter until I had already been accepted to both and registered for classes and all that with StMU.  The place is tiny, so I imagine it's because their admissions department is made up of like...one part time person or something. 

[Tamas]

No. I am saying that flat tax is the fair income tax. If you earn 1000x more than poor John Smith the factory worker, you pay 1000x more taxes than him. Everything else is socialist BS.

Proportional is already halfway to ability-to-pay regarding tax incidence. Why aren't you consequent and just make everybody pay the same absolute amount? That's a really flat tax.

No it is not.

I assume that you think "proportional" (what a silly name, the flat tax is proportional, BEING A PERCENTAGE. What we call proportional is actually punitive) is good because if you were to get the same tax income via flat tax it would result in a percentage raise for the poor.
Well, perhaps, as a weird concept, we should scale the state to it's income, and not it's income to the state.

Now, I know there are a lot of states with "proportional" taxes which 1) operate normally, and 2) have spendings which would be kinda tricky to cover with a flat tax, and 3) citizens are generally  okay with the whole thing.
That's fine with me. Just don't go around claiming that "proportional" is actually fair. No it is not. You are raising a barrier between the poor and their way up to the middle class, and discourage tax discipline for the rich.  You do that to make being poor less of a hassle through welfare, while cementing them in that strata.
If society is fine with that, hey. But do not call it fair.