The Off Topic Topic

[Tamas]

There's been one or two cases of a Muslim refusing to shake the hand of a politician of the opposite sex at citizenship ceremonies, and that has sparked outrage resulting in a new law requiring any new citizen to shake the hand of the politician handing over the papers at the ceremony. Refusal means no citizenship.

Because of the coronovirus breakout they are now forced to cancel all new citizenship approvals.

In the UK you can skip the handshake but you need to give notice of that beforehand.

I must say I would have serious doubts about how much effort would anyone be willing to put into adopting key values of a society they are joining, when they can't pass the hurdle of a handshake.

[dps]

There's been one or two cases of a Muslim refusing to shake the hand of a politician of the opposite sex at citizenship ceremonies, and that has sparked outrage resulting in a new law requiring any new citizen to shake the hand of the politician handing over the papers at the ceremony. Refusal means no citizenship.

Because of the coronovirus breakout they are now forced to cancel all new citizenship approvals.

In the UK you can skip the handshake but you need to give notice of that beforehand.

I must say I would have serious doubts about how much effort would anyone be willing to put into adopting key values of a society they are joining, when they can't pass the hurdle of a handshake.

Right now they could just use fear of coronavirus as an excuse.

[mongers]

Have you guy's just moved to 'American summertime' today?

[Admiral Yi]

Have you guy's just moved to 'American summertime' today?

Completely missed it.  Thanks for the heads up.

[mongers]

Have you guy's just moved to 'American summertime' today?

Completely missed it.  Thanks for the heads up.

I only noticed because grumblers/the forums most recent post was showing as after midnight, yet it's only 11.30pm here.

We've still another 3 weeks before the clocks move forward. 

[Josquius]

There's been one or two cases of a Muslim refusing to shake the hand of a politician of the opposite sex at citizenship ceremonies, and that has sparked outrage resulting in a new law requiring any new citizen to shake the hand of the politician handing over the papers at the ceremony. Refusal means no citizenship.

Because of the coronovirus breakout they are now forced to cancel all new citizenship approvals.

In the UK you can skip the handshake but you need to give notice of that beforehand.

I must say I would have serious doubts about how much effort would anyone be willing to put into adopting key values of a society they are joining, when they can't pass the hurdle of a handshake.

You do get totally native born perfectly pink Brits who don't like physical contact either.
It's not like hand shaking is such a critical part of every day life for most people.
It's less the hand shake itself and more the attitudes that a refusal might represent that are problematic.

[Tamas]

Yes.

[dps]

There's been one or two cases of a Muslim refusing to shake the hand of a politician of the opposite sex at citizenship ceremonies, and that has sparked outrage resulting in a new law requiring any new citizen to shake the hand of the politician handing over the papers at the ceremony. Refusal means no citizenship.

Because of the coronovirus breakout they are now forced to cancel all new citizenship approvals.

In the UK you can skip the handshake but you need to give notice of that beforehand.

I must say I would have serious doubts about how much effort would anyone be willing to put into adopting key values of a society they are joining, when they can't pass the hurdle of a handshake.

You do get totally native born perfectly pink Brits who don't like physical contact either.
It's not like hand shaking is such a critical part of every day life for most people.
It's less the hand shake itself and more the attitudes that a refusal might represent that are problematic.

I'd think that if they simply refused to shake hands with anyone, there'd be no issue.  The part that makes it problematic is refusing to shake hands with someone of the opposite sex.

[Sheilbh]

I don't really see the issue. It's happened to me doing pro bono work - instead of shaking hands some women will put their hand over their heart and slightly bow. And, you know, I'll do the same.

Occasionally you get it with older Muslim (generally Bengali) men too, but I think that's more just a cultural thing.

At this point I think it's an admirably non-contagious method of greeting

There's a general interesting topic on gender-neutral greetings in business. Women sometimes get excluded from handshakes or go in for a cheek-kiss by someone who doesn't really know them, which is a little problematic. In business settings I would shake everyone's hand, but then socially would kiss a woman on the cheek. It is a little complicated

[Grey Fox]

I find that there is no need for hand shakes with people you know & meet regularly.

[Josquius]

Any Anglo who goes in for the bise should be shot at dawn.

[Tamas]

I don't really see the issue. It's happened to me doing pro bono work - instead of shaking hands some women will put their hand over their heart and slightly bow. And, you know, I'll do the same.

Occasionally you get it with older Muslim (generally Bengali) men too, but I think that's more just a cultural thing.

At this point I think it's an admirably non-contagious method of greeting

There's a general interesting topic on gender-neutral greetings in business. Women sometimes get excluded from handshakes or go in for a cheek-kiss by someone who doesn't really know them, which is a little problematic. In business settings I would shake everyone's hand, but then socially would kiss a woman on the cheek. It is a little complicated

The problem, as I see it, is that a refusal by a woman to shake hands with a man stems from some HIGHLY misogynistic cultural norms. This refusal specifically might not be as such but it stems from values. It reinforces the thought that women should be treated differently on account of their sex.

[Josquius]

Its amazing. Just like that. £40,000. Gone.
Paid my house deposit.
Terrifying.

[Malthus]

Its amazing. Just like that. £40,000. Gone.
Paid my house deposit.
Terrifying.

You get used to it - then one day the mortgage is gone as well ... 

Oh what a happy day that was. 

[crazy canuck]

I was able to enjoy that day twice