How far right are you?

[Valmy]

The liberal mind never ceases to amaze me. They rise taxes and then ask themselves why people are running away to avoid taxes.

I was not aware we raised taxes

I was not even aware people were running away.

[Admiral Yi]

I was not aware we raised taxes

Taxes were raised on the rich as part of the Fiskal Kliff deal.

[Valmy]

I was not aware we raised taxes

Taxes were raised on the rich as part of the Fiskal Kliff deal.

Ah. Thanks. Was it a significant tax hike?

[Admiral Yi]

Ah. Thanks. Was it a significant tax hike?

10 per centish?  That's an educated guess.

[Siege]

Technology will replace many workers, while at the same time creating many new jobs we cannot even imagine today. In 1900 80% of the people in the US worked in agriculture. Today only 4%. With the industrialization of agriculture many people lost their jobs, and found new ones created because PRODUCTION went up. As long as production keeps growing, new capital will be available for loans in new economic sectors.

If technology was bad all those backward 3rd wold countries would be a paradise. Instead they work longer hours, producing less, with a lower standard of living.

[Eddie Teach]

Strawman alert. I never said that. You are putting things in my mouth that I did not say.

I didn't say you said that. I said that your test results show that.

[Siege]

Strawman alert. I never said that. You are putting things in my mouth that I did not say.

I didn't say you said that. I said that your test results show that.

You missed the putting things in my mouth part...
How annoying.

[Valmy]

Technology will replace many workers, while at the same time creating many new jobs we cannot even imagine today.

I am well aware this may be a temporary phenomenon. I was just talking about the immediate future.

But I think more goes into employment numbers than just tax policy.

[frunk]

Ah. Thanks. Was it a significant tax hike?

10 per centish?  That's an educated guess.

According to wiki the marginal (not effective) tax rate went up 4.6% for ~$400K+ (depending on status).

[Valmy]

And has the result been investment fleeing the country?

[Siege]

Technology will replace many workers, while at the same time creating many new jobs we cannot even imagine today.

I am well aware this may be a temporary phenomenon. I was just talking about the immediate future.

But I think more goes into employment numbers than just tax policy.

No really. Well, minimum wage does because the higher it is the lower the value of the people making over the minimum.
An strong economy is property rights, low taxes, and no minimum wage.
Without minimum wage, employers compete for employees.

[frunk]

And has the result been investment fleeing the country?

Well, considering US tax is still well below most other modern countries I would be surprised if it did.

[Valmy]

No really. Well, minimum wage does because the higher it is the lower the value of the people making over the minimum.
An strong economy is property rights, low taxes, and no minimum wage.
Without minimum wage, employers compete for employees.

So once we dump the minimum wage we will have an explosion of highly paying jobs?

See this is back to the thinking that taxes and this sort of thing is the main driver of economics. I think there may be supply and demand and technological factors involved as well. The minimum wage has not gone up for a long time and the tax rates are pretty low, I don't see how they could have that much of an impact.

[Ideologue]

Technology will replace many workers, while at the same time creating many new jobs we cannot even imagine today.

I wonder why we can't imagine it.  It might be because it's an unexamined article of faith amongst rightists and neoliberals, its sole logical underpinning an inductive process that assumes since the economy created jobs after the collapse of agriculture and industry in the West it will also create jobs following the collapse of service sector work.  It would be more persuasive if the goal of capitalism were to create jobs, when of course it isn't.  Capitalism, like evolution, is a mindless process that doesn't have a teleological goal at all; the goal of avowed capitalists is to create wealth (for themselves).  That it's resulted in wealth generation that has been shared (albeit markedly unevenly) by all sectors of society is a meaningless thing to point out, since capitalism did it entirely by accident.  It's even more meaningless, given that the conditions which permitted that have been replaced by new conditions to which you'd prefer to remain willfully blind--not least the end of the mid-century consensus towards a compromise with socialism's economic goals as a way to fight socialism politically at home and abroad.  But above all you purposefully fail to comprehend the automation revolution that is underway, comparing it to farmhands moving to cities.  In reality it is like nothing previously seen in human affairs.  There is no fourth labor sector.

Sadly, the less-educated rightists and the more pie-eyed neoliberals have bought into several decades of propaganda and come to anthropomorphize capitalism as an conscious entity that has a list of priorities, with job creation at the top.  All will be well--because their priests tell them so.  That this incredibly adolescent worldview can be accepted by idiots is not too surprising, but that it is parroted by otherwise smart people is amazing.

[Ideologue]

No really. Well, minimum wage does because the higher it is the lower the value of the people making over the minimum.
An strong economy is property rights, low taxes, and no minimum wage.
Without minimum wage, employers compete for employees.

So once we dump the minimum wage we will have an explosion of highly paying jobs?

Theoretically, shit would be cheaper, increasing the real value of "market"-determined wages.

In practice, higher minwage would force firms to seek further automation and productivity increases--they would anyway, but raising the minwage might make certain borderline decisions more immediately profitable.  The result might be fewer workers in low-wage positions.  It may also be that shifting firm expenditures to wages will be the demand-side stimulus we've needed forever, and it could all balance out.  Hard to say.  (The contrary would also be true: if the minwage was eliminated, and low-wage workers' pay collapsed, there would be even less demand and lower employment.  Wage stickiness would make wage deflation difficult over the short term, however.  Everyone would remember that the wage for the shittiest job in the world used to be $7.25/hr, and find it offensive to be paid even less.  There are psychological aspects to economics that are sometimes overlooked.)

What it would almost certainly not do is lower the pay of skilled, medium-wage workers; it would be more likely to raise those, since wages of skilled work (or credentialed work, like I do) would become very, very unattractive if suddenly morons flipping burgers were making $20/hr and getting some exercise and free french fries while they were at it.  Minwages tend to set a negotiation floor that everybody can stand on.