How far right are you?

[grumbler]

Technology will replace many workers, while at the same time creating many new jobs we cannot even imagine today.

I wonder why we can't imagine it.  It might be because it's an unexamined article of faith amongst rightists and neoliberals, its sole logical underpinning an inductive process that assumes since the economy created jobs after the collapse of agriculture and industry in the West it will also create jobs following the collapse of service sector work.  It would be more persuasive if the goal of capitalism were to create jobs, when of course it isn't.  Capitalism, like evolution, is a mindless process that doesn't have a teleological goal at all; the goal of avowed capitalists is to create wealth (for themselves).  That it's resulted in wealth generation that has been shared (albeit markedly unevenly) by all sectors of society is a meaningless thing to point out, since capitalism did it entirely by accident.  It's even more meaningless, given that the conditions which permitted that have been replaced by new conditions to which you'd prefer to remain willfully blind--not least the end of the mid-century consensus towards a compromise with socialism's economic goals as a way to fight socialism politically at home and abroad.  But above all you purposefully fail to comprehend the automation revolution that is underway, comparing it to farmhands moving to cities.  In reality it is like nothing previously seen in human affairs.  There is no fourth labor sector.

Sadly, the less-educated rightists and the more pie-eyed neoliberals have bought into several decades of propaganda and come to anthropomorphize capitalism as an conscious entity that has a list of priorities, with job creation at the top.  All will be well--because their priests tell them so.  That this incredibly adolescent worldview can be accepted by idiots is not too surprising, but that it is parroted by otherwise smart people is amazing.

Holy crap, I kind of agree with a lot of this.

WTF is wrong with me?

Well, that makes you, Ide, and Ned Ludd.  Soon you guys can build a tree fort and have meetings.

[frunk]

Then you'd have people yelling at you for subsidizing fast food franchises. 

Probably.

[Ideologue]

I would actually be in favor of getting rid of the minimum wage.  It's far too rigid and unadaptable to changing circumstance, not to mention unlikely to do what it is trying to do.

I'd prefer a stronger social safety net instead, encouraging people to work even really low wage jobs but provide support to make sure they can afford food/housing.

Milton Friedman was a commie.

[Ideologue]

Nothing's wrong. Ide simply sees with more clarity the problems of the world that is than those of the one he would create.

Huh.

[The Brain]

Sweden has no minimum wage and no estate tax, and we are a Socialist hellhole. I hate to think what the US is.

[Razgovory]

Sweden has no minimum wage and no estate tax, and we are a Socialist hellhole. I hate to think what the US is.

Relevant.

[Eddie Teach]

Nothing's wrong. Ide simply sees with more clarity the problems of the world that is than those of the one he would create.

Huh.

"Nothing's wrong" in response to Berkut's handwringing, not as a comment by itself. Just because you see the same problems doesn't mean one buys into your solutions.

[Eddie Teach]

Sweden has no minimum wage and no estate tax, and we are a Socialist hellhole. I hate to think what the US is.

The US has lower income taxes and no VAT.

[The Brain]

Sweden has no minimum wage and no estate tax, and we are a Socialist hellhole. I hate to think what the US is.

The US has lower income taxes and no VAT.

Taxes when I die matter more than taxes when I'm alive.

[Valmy]

Well, that makes you, Ide, and Ned Ludd.  Soon you guys can build a tree fort and have meetings.

And this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

If you have any thoughts on this topic I would be interested in hearing them. Your claim that only Luddites are concerned about this issue is patently false, it is a fairly common public concern these days.

[Habbaku]

I'd prefer a stronger social safety net instead, encouraging people to work even really low wage jobs but provide support to make sure they can afford food/housing.

Guaranteed minimum income. 

[Ideologue]

Nothing's wrong. Ide simply sees with more clarity the problems of the world that is than those of the one he would create.

Huh.

"Nothing's wrong" in response to Berkut's handwringing, not as a comment by itself. Just because you see the same problems doesn't mean one buys into your solutions.

No, I got it, it's just food for thought.

Anyway, I really do like a guaranteed basic income.  It's even better than a minwage--and because, contrary to frunk's analysis, it would put drastic pressure on employers to raise wages (well, that or automate).  Talk about setting a wage floor.  If one got a $20k basic income payment, who would go wash dishes for (say) $2 an hour?  Nobody.  Certainly not for 40 hours a week.

[dps]

I think a lot of folks have opinions about economics that have never taken courses in it or read a book about it, and downward wage rigidity may very well be news to them.

I doubt that anyone has to have taken any economics courses to realize that people don't like to take pay cuts.

[Admiral Yi]

Anyway, I really do like a guaranteed basic income.  It's even better than a minwage--and because, contrary to frunk's analysis, it would put drastic pressure on employers to raise wages (well, that or automate).  Talk about setting a wage floor.  If one got a $20k basic income payment, who would go wash dishes for (say) $2 an hour?  Nobody.  Certainly not for 40 hours a week.

Who would wash dishes for 25,000 a year?  30,000?  Who would do *anything* for that kind of money?

[Grinning_Colossus]

Anyway, I really do like a guaranteed basic income.  It's even better than a minwage--and because, contrary to frunk's analysis, it would put drastic pressure on employers to raise wages (well, that or automate).  Talk about setting a wage floor.  If one got a $20k basic income payment, who would go wash dishes for (say) $2 an hour?  Nobody.  Certainly not for 40 hours a week.

Who would wash dishes for 25,000 a year?  30,000?  Who would do *anything* for that kind of money?

Unskilled people who want to double their income and illegal immigrants.