Ubik commited to mental institution, tries to sue everyone

[Martinus]

I'm curious what a high functioning paranoid schizophrenic would be like.  What sort of job do you envision him having?  Things like hallucinations tend to be deal breakers in most employment situations.

for one example, call center. high-functioning is high-functioning. there are paranoid schizophrenics who are able to have steady employment.

Actually, a job where you have to deal directly with customers on a constant basis is probably one that is least suitable for schizoprenics. But any job where you work, broadly, alone; can work from home; and requires creativity and expertise, could work. Of course as with most diseases there are people with more mild or more severe cases of it, so YMMV.

[DontSayBanana]

for one example, call center. high-functioning is high-functioning. there are paranoid schizophrenics who are able to have steady employment.

Nope.  Speaking from firsthand experience, a call center gig is not a good gig for a schizophrenic.  There's a lot less isolation between workers in a call center, so when one person has a breakdown, it's hugely disruptive to the entire operation.

Net result of the situation I'm thinking of: the guy had to be fired, and for an afternoon, everybody was a little worried about going home because the guy in question started wandering around the parking lot, screaming at air.

[Sheilbh]

without more, i'm inclined to trust the neutral experts over a suspected (paranoid?) schizophrenic.

I don't know. I mean it's quite difficult to section someone here, but it used to be easier and perhaps a little more prone to mistake/abuse. That it can proceed without a doctor seeing him and, from what I can see, the medical evidence initially coming from an involved party (his sister(-in-law?)) is a bit dubious. It makes me wonder a little about the Portuguese system.

[Eddie Teach]

Nope.  Speaking from firsthand experience, a call center gig is not a good gig for a schizophrenic.  There's a lot less isolation between workers in a call center, so when one person has a breakdown, it's hugely disruptive to the entire operation.

Net result of the situation I'm thinking of: the guy had to be fired, and for an afternoon, everybody was a little worried about going home because the guy in question started wandering around the parking lot, screaming at air.

You don't have to have an actual center to have people with jobs answering telephones though. A lot of those are turning into work-from-home deals.

[DontSayBanana]

You don't have to have an actual center to have people with jobs answering telephones though. A lot of those are turning into work-from-home deals.

Sales calls, yeah.  Customer service call centers are with companies that are a bit paranoid about protecting "company information," though, so they prefer to keep call centers so that company information can stay on their own intranets.

[LaCroix]

Actually, a job where you have to deal directly with customers on a constant basis is probably one that is least suitable for schizoprenics. But any job where you work, broadly, alone; can work from home; and requires creativity and expertise, could work. Of course as with most diseases there are people with more mild or more severe cases of it, so YMMV.

like your environmental law attorney, i know an attorney with paranoid schizophrenia who worked at one time for the FDIC. same result re: deterioration. if it can be identified early on, there's a better chance to convince the person to consent to treatment. if left untreated, continued deterioration that cripples professional careers is bound to happen. if it reaches the point where the person is simply unwilling to ever consent to treatment, and that person mostly keeps a normal life, then forcing involuntary treatment probably isn't warranted. the person isn't a danger to himself or others.

Nope.  Speaking from firsthand experience, a call center gig is not a good gig for a schizophrenic.  There's a lot less isolation between workers in a call center, so when one person has a breakdown, it's hugely disruptive to the entire operation.

speaking from first-hand experience, a call center is very possible for a schizophrenic. a schizophrenic who breaks down resulting in out of control screaming and ranting doesn't sound very high functioning.

[LaCroix]

I don't know. I mean it's quite difficult to section someone here, but it used to be easier and perhaps a little more prone to mistake/abuse. That it can proceed without a doctor seeing him and, from what I can see, the medical evidence initially coming from an involved party (his sister(-in-law?)) is a bit dubious. It makes me wonder a little about the Portuguese system.

there are two hospitals involved, right? hospital B says ubik was diagnosed by hospital A, so hospital B relied on hospital A. and hospital A has not released any comments about the initial seizure/diagnosis. we don't know exactly what happened. given the unknowns, i'm willing to place more faith in the portuguese psychiatric system than assume it's incompetent and rely on the allegations of a suspected schizophrenic. that's what i was getting at in my earlier post.

[Razgovory]

The only high functioning schizophrenics are ones who take medication or the illness hasn't fully set in.

[dps]

speaking from first-hand experience, a call center is very possible for a schizophrenic. a schizophrenic who breaks down resulting in out of control screaming and ranting doesn't sound very high functioning.

Dealing with the general public on a constant basis isn't easy even for many people without psychiatric problems;  I can't really believe that the stress involved could be a good thing for anyone who already has mental health issues.  And a call center might be even worse than, say, doing sales cold calls, because in a call center by definition you're dealing with people who have complaints.

[LaCroix]

The only high functioning schizophrenics are ones who take medication or the illness hasn't fully set in.

there are different levels of any mental condition. look at OCD, bipolar disorder, and autism, for example. there are high functioning schizophrenics whose schizophrenia has fully set in and who don't take medication. not every unmedicated schizophrenic is rocking back and forth blabbering to himself.

Dealing with the general public on a constant basis isn't easy even for many people without psychiatric problems;  I can't really believe that the stress involved could be a good thing for anyone who already has mental health issues.  And a call center might be even worse than, say, doing sales cold calls, because in a call center by definition you're dealing with people who have complaints.

people handle stress differently regardless of any mental condition. a highly stressful day for one schizophrenic could lead to ranting and raving at work, but for another schizophrenic it could mean he finds more conspiratorial connections that day. depending on the severity of schizophrenia, he might break or merely bend.

[Razgovory]

Yeah, that's not true.  For instance there is no such thing as high functioning catatonia.

[LaCroix]

Yeah, that's not true.  For instance there is no such thing as high functioning catatonia.

yes there is. if a schizophrenic (or autistic, or whatever) patient is found to show signs of catatonia, the catatonic symptoms may be less severe in one patient than another. catatonia is not always unresponsive immobilization. a schizophrenic with high functioning catatonia may (or may not) be employable, i don't know. but he very well could move about his home.

not every mental condition is the exact same. not every symptom has the exact same level of severity. some specific symptoms may have the same level of severity, but that doesn't mean they all do. you should know better than most here. not every schizoaffective person is the same. there are people who have the same types of symptoms as you, only those symptoms are more severe. others may have less severe symptoms. it's a spectrum, as with many (if not all) mental conditions.

[Razgovory]

Yeah, but we are talking about paranoid schizophrenia not "any schizoaffective disorder".  But you are right about one thing, you don't know.

[LaCroix]

Yeah, but we are talking about paranoid schizophrenia not "any schizoaffective disorder".  But you are right about one thing, you don't know.

do you really believe every case of paranoid schizophrenia is the same? you mentioned hallucinations earlier. are you aware not every case of paranoid schizophrenia involves hallucinations? that's a hollywood myth. and, i'm pretty familiar with paranoid schizophrenia.

[Eddie Teach]

Remember, just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you.