Ubik commited to mental institution, tries to sue everyone

[Martim Silva]

Well, this is turning to be a bit of a national scandal. There is talk about changing the Mental Healt Act.

Ubik was interviewed today by 'Rádio Renascença' (one of our major radio stations).

Here is the video of the interview, which is accompanied by a panel of experts. It is in Portuguese, but you can take the chance to see Ubik's face, hear his voice and see his body language:

http://vmais.rr.sapo.pt/default.aspx?fil=801304

(it can be preceded by a short ad)

Also, the whole incident has put the health officials under pressure:

http://www.ionline.pt/artigos/portugal/internamento-compulsivo-sem-ver-doente-n-normal

Psychiatry. Compulsive interment without seeing the patient is not normal

In reaction to 'I's story, the director of the Psychiatric Center of Lisbon says that, in a similar case, he would open an inquiry

"Medicine is not an exact science", warns the clinical director of the Psychiatric Center of Lisbon. According to José Salgado it is not, however, normal to be issued a warrant to be led to urgencies wihout the patient having already been seen or followed by the doctor that makes the report. Faced with the case of Carlos reported by 'I', a man that was interned for three months in a psyciatrical ward without having any problems, José Salgado said: "It is not at all usual that a patient could be led to the hospital without being seen", and he admitted thatat  the root could be "a clinical or ethical error".

Contacted because he is responsible for the psychiatrical urgencies at São José, he said he has nothing to say about the case, since that, after Carlos entered this hospital, the internment was made already at Egas Moniz: "and that hospital does not belong to us". Even so, Salgado said that he has no doubts that, "if a similar situation ever happens at the Psychiatrical Center of Lisbon, [we will act] immediately, opening an inquiry to establish the truth of the facts".

The stance that a compulsive internemt with these characteristics is not common is shared by Mário Durval, Health Deputy at Barreiro: " It would not even be a legally correct procedure, if already at the entry interview there was no signs of an illness".

Egas Moniz Hospital has not answered, however, if the case has been or will be analyzed, but it confirmed that "the interment of the patient lasted for 71 days". The health unit underlined also that after this situation, the patient is being "followed in psychiatrical consultations at the hospital of his area of residence".

About the fact that the Health Delegate Rita Saldanha de Azevedo had issued a warrant to be led to the urgencies with basis on an information made without evaluating the patient in person, the 'I' put that question to the Regional Health Administration of Lisbon, which said it could not talk about the case. "Without the express consent of the responsible in question, it cannot nor should be divulged or commented on [personal data], especially when the purpose of those is to be published by the media", answered an official source, which noted that this process is handled by the hospitals themselves.

"The procss of the mentioned sick person is ran by the hospitals, with whok the Regional Administration keeps a constant articulation, and simultaneously involves acts and competences of other institutions, namely the Health Authorities and the Courts".

No he said "Lrazepam".  Damned if I know what it is though.

Note: it was Lorazepan as it says in the article; I was blitz-translating, so I misspelled those complicated names (which I also changed from their portuguese names to what I guessed could be their English-language conterparts).

Hey, the most I take are aspirins, those names all sound weird to me.

[DontSayBanana]

This must be one of the slowest news days ever.  No person ever involuntarily committed to an asylum ever admitted that they neded to be committed; if they had, it wouldn't be involuntary.  That lazy news people chose to follow the "only sane man in the nuthouse" angle isn't surprising; it makes for more clicks than "crazy man gets treated like a crazy man."

I'm glad he got treated and, at least temporarily, cured.  Better to be sane and angry than insane and unaware of it.

Here comes Grumbler with the bag of straw.  He wasn't "cured," the facility was forced to release him when the court questioned the validity of the commitment itself.

Should mental patients be able to just say "I'm cured!" and get out?  No (Sorry, Constantine).

[Zanza]

This must be one of the slowest news days ever.  No person ever involuntarily committed to an asylum ever admitted that they neded to be committed; if they had, it wouldn't be involuntary. 

Someone once told me about a patient satisfaction survey by highly paid consultants in the hospital he works. When they asked the head of psychiatry why his patients were much less satisfied than those of all other departments, he just said "The doors here don't have handles." 

[LaCroix]

Here comes Grumbler with the bag of straw.  He wasn't "cured," the facility was forced to release him when the court questioned the validity of the commitment itself.

that's not what the court said. the court said the hospital lacked insufficient cause to continue to involuntarily hold ubik. the hospital could have had cause to involuntarily hold ubik on day one. the hospital could have had cause to continue to hold him up until the court proceeding, too. at this point, we can't know exactly what happened, because a vast portion of the story comes from one side.

without more, i'm inclined to trust the neutral experts over a suspected (paranoid?) schizophrenic.

[Razgovory]

It should be easier to involuntary commit someone in the US.  Would certainly cut down in the number of street people and maybe the maybe school/workplace shootings.

[MadImmortalMan]

We can't just go around locking people up because we think they're weird. That's barbarian behavior. Hell, I even think Raz should be a free man.

[Razgovory]

We can't just go around locking people up because we think they're weird. That's barbarian behavior. Hell, I even think Raz should be a free man.

I didn't say "Weird", nor am I suggesting permanent imprisonment.  I'm talking about taking care of people who really need help.  One of the most insidious elements of mental illness is that people who have it often deny it and refuse to take medications to treat the illness.  The sad fact is that people who have these illnesses are the least able to decide for themselves if they should be in the hospital.  I'm suggesting a larger mental health system and the ability of teachers, councilors, police, parole officers etc to be able to send someone in for evaluation and possible long term treatment.  Long term treatment is not necessarily long term hospitalization, but in most cases out patient treatment.

[LaCroix]

problem with that is the potential for abuse. as well, many of those who don't want treatment may not need treatment. do we need to force treatment on a high functioning paranoid schizophrenic who poses no danger to others and is fully employed?

[MadImmortalMan]

No. I'd rather have schizophrenic people on the streets than people with the power to imprison the innocent running wild.

[The Brain]

Innocents are fairly dangerous running wild.

[Razgovory]

No. I'd rather have schizophrenic people on the streets than people with the power to imprison the innocent running wild.

This isn't about guilt or innocence.  I would not want to sacrifice hundreds of thousands to a hellish torment and early death to appease the paranoia of those who hate the government.

[Eddie Teach]

I think most psychiatrists will tell you they can't help somebody who doesn't want to be helped.

[Razgovory]

problem with that is the potential for abuse. as well, many of those who don't want treatment may not need treatment. do we need to force treatment on a high functioning paranoid schizophrenic who poses no danger to others and is fully employed?

The current system leads to widespread abuse of mentally ill people.  Homeless crazies are frequently beaten, robbed, raped and murdered.  I'm curious what a high functioning paranoid schizophrenic would be like.  What sort of job do you envision him having?  Things like hallucinations tend to be deal breakers in most employment situations.

[Neil]

I think most psychiatrists will tell you they can't help somebody who doesn't want to be helped.

That's fairly trite.  For people whose illnesses make them unable to reach out for help, there's probably a better solution than MiM's forcing them to wander the streets.

[Razgovory]

I think most psychiatrists will tell you they can't help somebody who doesn't want to be helped.

Yeah, when they are talking about depression or alcohol abuse.  Not so much for things like Schizophrenia.