#Gamergate goes off the deep end

[derspiess]

I do not understand "gamer" culture at all.  Not least because there is a "gamer" culture.  Hell, When I was in middle school I tended to keep my interest in computer games secret lest I be mocked for it.

I grew up in an earlier time and in Appalachia, but I never noticed any stigma toward computer gamers either in elementary, junior high, or high school.  In fact, computer classes were some of the most popular because you sometimes got to play games.

There were geeks that were heavily into computer games, but also plenty of jocks and other normal people. 

IIRC, the only stigmatized groups were the trailer trash and band geeks.

[grumbler]

I grew up in an earlier time and in Appalachia, but I never noticed any stigma toward computer gamers either in elementary, junior high, or high school.  In fact, computer classes were some of the most popular because you sometimes got to play games.

There were geeks that were heavily into computer games, but also plenty of jocks and other normal people. 

IIRC, the only stigmatized groups were the trailer trash and band geeks.

That people play computer games is completely expected in the school where I teach.  Some love it more than others (there is a Smash Brothers club, whatever Smash Brothers are) but the kids who put on the school plays are as likely to try to ask me if I have ever played GTA as the SBC kids (it's pretty common knowledge I play Elder Scrolls and Fallout games).  That there is a separate group of people who consider themselves the standard-bearers of some kind of "game culture" just strike me as weird.  It's like some group deciding they are the arbiters of "TV culture" or "music culture."

Maybe there is a subset of games that are "real games," as opposed to what we are familiar with.  I've certainly never heard of a "Depression Game."

[Malthus]

These days, playing computer games is pretty ubiquitous. Never thought of there being a particular "gamer culture".

[garbon]

These days, playing computer games is pretty ubiquitous. Never thought of there being a particular "gamer culture".

I have gotten confused when someone has said to me - oh you play video games? With a very judgmental tone. I don't really think of it as an identity.

[Ed Anger]

People stare at me when I wear my Das Reich T-Shirt.

[Jacob]

Maybe there is a subset of games that are "real games," as opposed to what we are familiar with.  I've certainly never heard of a "Depression Game."

There are a whole bunch of strands of this stuff that's mixed together. I'll lay it out for you, in case you're interested.

So, the ground zero for this is one Zoe Quinn and her bitter ex-boyfriend, Eron Gjoni.

Quinn makes (made) indie games, including this one called "Depression Quest" which got some critical recognition in some indie game dev circles. It's not, I think, the kind of game anyone here would care about (including me), being part of a fairly low-production value artsy sometimes political fringe of game development. She's also, I believe fairly pugnacious and somewhat political in a way that people like Legbiter would find particularly unworthy.

Gjoni, bitter about the up, apparently spends a bunch of time crafting a character assassination post for Quinn, getting kicked off a bunch of boards before finding fertile grounds on one of the chan boards. Part of the character assassination post is an allegation that she fucked reviewers for good reviews and professional gain (since debunked). On that board, they decide to go after Quinn hard, which they do, and some notice is taken outside

A few game review sites of some substance write articles about the gamer identity being dead - the point being that games are now so mainstream that people outside what's usually considered the traditional gamer audience (so that includes us here on languish, I'd say) now play games and the harassment of Quinn is a terrible thing.

This is (mis-)interpreted as being an "attack on gamers". At this point, the focus of the gamergate talking point shifts on to being about "corruption in game journalism" and general culture wars stuff as a handful of minor celebrities and Breitbart bloggers join in to stoke the fires, and various other people jump in to denounce the gamergate people etc. From there it basically explodes on to a giant internet shitstorm, spilling into the regular news and out into actual life as well (death threats, the USU threat against Sarkeesian, etc).

None of us would have heard of "Depression Quest" if it wasn't for this debacle. When people speak of "real games" they seem to mean things like Call of Duty, EA Sports Games, GTA, and our strategy games etc.

And if anyone is interested, here's an interview with the bitter ex who triggered the whole thing: http://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/the-man-who-sparked-gamergate-regrets-the-harassment-but-say#1c890yf

He seems kind of confused to me to be honest.

And here's a bunch of caps of the ground zero of the initial campaign against Quinn, which pretty clearly show the origins to be about harassment and misogyny: https://storify.com/EffNOVideoGames/stopgamergate-it-has-always-been-a-spin

A couple of choice ones:

Gjoni discussing what he wrote and how:


The good people of the board plan out their strategy for breaking the story and harassing Quinn:






... and then it blossomed out from there. Probably more stuff than you're interested in, but hey.

[Jacob]

These days, playing computer games is pretty ubiquitous. Never thought of there being a particular "gamer culture".

Well, apparently there's enough of one and it feels under attack enough that there are death threats against the likes of Anita Sarkeesian.

[Ed Anger]

I hope y'all noticed I've kept my normal misyogny sthick out of this thread.

I'm a damn saint.

[Jacob]

I hope y'all noticed I've kept my normal misyogny sthick out of this thread.

I'm a damn saint.

[grumbler]

This is (mis-)interpreted as being an "attack on gamers". At this point, the focus of the gamergate talking point shifts on to being about "corruption in game journalism" and general culture wars stuff as a handful of minor celebrities and Breitbart bloggers join in to stoke the fires, and various other people jump in to denounce the gamergate people etc. From there it basically explodes on to a giant internet shitstorm, spilling into the regular news and out into actual life as well (death threats, the USU threat against Sarkeesian, etc).

So would it be fair to say that a bunch of guys (maybe guys and gals) are really venting over the fact that they aren't unique any more, since gaming has become mainstream?

It seems to me that there was a bit of this when games stopped being the sort of thing SSI came out with, and more the sort of thing Sony came out with.  It wasn't this toxic, though.

[Jacob]

So would it be fair to say that a bunch of guys (maybe guys and gals) are really venting over the fact that they aren't unique any more, since gaming has become mainstream?

It seems to me that there was a bit of this when games stopped being the sort of thing SSI came out with, and more the sort of thing Sony came out with.  It wasn't this toxic, though.

Basically yes, with a giant mish-mash of culture war things thrown in and rage about corruption in games media.

[grumbler]

Basically yes, with a giant mish-mash of culture war things thrown in and rage about corruption in games media.

The culture war thing I get (it's everywhere, and doesn't have fuck-all to do with games), but the "corruption in games media" bit escapes me.  Did "depression quest" sell so well that it is distorting the development of other types of games, because its developer corrupted so much of the media?  Or are these "gamergate" types just pissed because they spent money on a game that got unfairly hyped in a review?  Or is the whole issue just a cover for something else?

Or, am i just over-estimating the goals of the "gamergate" types (other than the kooks, of course) and they really aren't talking about the global picture, but just their own personal debates in their own tiny world, and they don't care about this IRL any more than I care about whether a poster here thinks I am a "coward?"

[PDH]

This whole thing is stupid.  Trolls and the like hide behind electronic anonymity and then are complete assholes.

Still, does this mean I can't slag Tim any more?  If so, I am gonna have to hate on this lady.

[Jacob]

Basically yes, with a giant mish-mash of culture war things thrown in and rage about corruption in games media.

The culture war thing I get (it's everywhere, and doesn't have fuck-all to do with games), but the "corruption in games media" bit escapes me.  Did "depression quest" sell so well that it is distorting the development of other types of games, because its developer corrupted so much of the media?  Or are these "gamergate" types just pissed because they spent money on a game that got unfairly hyped in a review?  Or is the whole issue just a cover for something else?

Or, am i just over-estimating the goals of the "gamergate" types (other than the kooks, of course) and they really aren't talking about the global picture, but just their own personal debates in their own tiny world, and they don't care about this IRL any more than I care about whether a poster here thinks I am a "coward?"

The bolded part.

Depression Quest is a free game. It's not much of a game, apparently, being a "walking simulator" (whatever that is - I'm guessing it's a point and click type thing).

The "ethics" thing was cooked up by the bitter boyfriend. During/after the breakup, apparently Quinn slept with a guy who's a game journalist. The bitter ex alleged she did it for good reviews and added that she'd slept with a bunch of other guys for good treatment. The channers ran with that (never mind the fact that the guy never reviewed her game) as cover for their attacks on the game dev. As the thing grew bigger, they kept coming back to the ethics thing, about the corruption in game media; yet all they ever did was throw shit at women in general and feminists in particular (and people who disagreed with them). They haven't in any way acted against the actual corruption that exists in game media whatsoever, and seem to conflate the "corruption" with a "feminist war on men and gamers".

So yeah, to me it looks like a cover. Though at this point it also seems there are a bunch of people going "gamers aren't sexists! Don't call me a sexist because I like games" who are hitching themselves to the "movement", giving it continued life. On that, then, it seems to me it's a convenient way to grab a marginalized-us-outsiders-against-the-world position and run with it for a while.

[Jacob]

This whole thing is stupid.  Trolls and the like hide behind electronic anonymity and then are complete assholes.

Still, does this mean I can't slag Tim any more?  If so, I am gonna have to hate on this lady.

You can always slag on Tim. Don't worry