Scottish Independence: Quebec Edition

[Malthus]

This is, of course, a steaming pile of special pleading.

...

What was I saying again about contemptuous dismissal?  I rest my case.



G.

Stop producing steaming piles, and I will stop contemptuously dismissing them. 

[Eddie Teach]

  Just as an American president can win a debate by saying "He wants Canada!",

Link plz.

[Razgovory]

This is, of course, a steaming pile of special pleading.

...

What was I saying again about contemptuous dismissal?  I rest my case.



G.

What sort of powers do you want for Quebec?  What do you intend to do with them?  What federal interference bothers you?

[Valmy]

based on love and submission to foreign non elected leader.  It makes sense, when you don't think about it...

See?  The British Monarchy has been in America since 1585 and ethno-nationalists like Viper still consider them foreigners.  She has accepted your culture and calls herself 'Reine du Canada' and yet that integration STILL isn't enough.  Ethnic intolerance at its worst.

[Malthus]

This is, of course, a steaming pile of special pleading. The fact is that Canada is already about as decentralized a federation as one could find,

that's Canadian propaganda for you

We are much more centralized the the United States and the Prime Minister office has a lot more power in Canada than does the Presidential office in the US.

How many US states have their own "de facto" foreign embassies? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_International_Relations_(Quebec)

[HVC]

What is it that the French Canadians want that they aren't getting?

What are these demands/suggestions that the Feds are refusing to grant/consider?

they don't know what they want, but they know that they want it

[HVC]

That's bullshit.

You don't fund it. There is a long list of services that the Federal government doesn't provide in Quebec but the provincial government does.

The federal government is only giving the money it collected for those services back.

if they're only giving back what they collected why are you getting 7 billion more back than you gave?

[Crazy_Ivan80]

No one will be expelled from Flanders if and when we achieve independence. It's rather well known that francophone press is not shy of blatant (and no so blatant) lying when it comes to portraying Flanders. No wonder when you know that they get their queue from francophone politicians.

Didn't the old VB (Vlaams Block) push for expulsion of immigrants, 2nd generation included?

not even in their 1992-version of their "70-punten plan" do they call for the rounding up and expulsion of immigrants from what I can tell. Making remigration more interesting, yes (even via the use of pay-outs) and access to the social-system harder for non-citizens, also yes (but that is hardly extra-ordinary in the world, even in the west.)
Who really knows given the time and leftist & francophone hystrionics over the past 25 years.
Not that it matters atm as they didn't even manage to clear the 5% hurdle in half the provinces in the last elections.

The NVA -also flemish nationalists and the largest party of Belgium- holds more to the following idea of citizenship: i.e. everyone who comes here and makes a positive contribution to flemish society is welcome to stay and become flemish. It's also the party that provides the first immigrant-origin-districthead in Antwerp and the first immigrant-origin-mayor in Flanders.

[viper37]

  Just as an American president can win a debate by saying "He wants Canada!",

Link plz.

Bush, 2000.  2nd debate with Kerry, IIRC.  Talking about the healthcare proposals of the Democrat candidate: "He wants Canada!".

[viper37]

allow Quebec a more privileged place.

a more privileged place than we have now, for sure.
What other provinces do is of no concern.  If they don't want more autonomy and are ready to throw away their freedoms to be schakled by the Federal government, who am I to tell them it's bad?

Just the same, they shouldn't get in the way of accrued autonomy for Quebec just because they don't want it for themselves.

[viper37]

But I don't want to "fuck up" our federal government.   

that's a common belief in Canada, that any change to the way the country is governed will fuck up things.  Canada is perfect, it should not change.  In the off chance that it would not be perfect, it should certainly not change to accomodate the desire of a predominently francophone province.

It's been the dominant factor in Canadian politics since Trudeau came to power.

I would not have expected an Albertan to share his point of view though...

[Malthus]

allow Quebec a more privileged place.

a more privileged place than we have now, for sure.
What other provinces do is of no concern.  If they don't want more autonomy and are ready to throw away their freedoms to be schakled by the Federal government, who am I to tell them it's bad?

Just the same, they shouldn't get in the way of accrued autonomy for Quebec just because they don't want it for themselves.

It's the combination of (a) being lectured about Quebec's infinitely superior brand of socialism and independent culture, while (2) being shaken down for "equalization payments" to fund all that wonderful independence, that rankles.

If Quebec wants its own embasies, or $7-a-day daycare, that's Quebec's business. When we are expected to pay for such extravagance, you are making it our business, whether we like it or not. 

[viper37]

Honestly, the only thing concrete I've heard from the pro-independence "crowd" is that they want more power to create a more intolerant society towards those who are not French enough, or god forbid, dirty furriners.

Coming from someone who though Chirac was my President not so long ago, I quite understand your distorted visions of Canadian politics...

[viper37]

This is, of course, a steaming pile of special pleading. The fact is that Canada is already about as decentralized a federation as one could find,

that's Canadian propaganda for you

We are much more centralized the the United States and the Prime Minister office has a lot more power in Canada than does the Presidential office in the US.

How many US states have their own "de facto" foreign embassies? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_International_Relations_(Quebec)

They ain't "de facto" foreign embassies.
They are akin to California's international trade offices.
Link
Other link

You don't go to a Quebec "embassy" because you lost your passport, are trapped in a war zone, disaster zone or because you face criminal charges.  You go there to build a social network that will help you develop your business in these foreign countries.  Wether it works or not, if we have enough for our money is another matter.  But they are nothing like embassies and are primarly asked at businesses rather than individuals (keep in mind that culture is a big business).

Next question?

[Barrister]

This is, of course, a steaming pile of special pleading. The fact is that Canada is already about as decentralized a federation as one could find,

that's Canadian propaganda for you

We are much more centralized the the United States and the Prime Minister office has a lot more power in Canada than does the Presidential office in the US.

How many US states have their own "de facto" foreign embassies? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_International_Relations_(Quebec)

I don't know about US states, but Alberta does.

http://www.international.alberta.ca/933.cfm