Scottish Independence: Quebec Edition

[Warspite]

Gossip I hear is that the high-ups in the Better Together campaign are privately conceding it's all over - they sense the Yes vote has it. Edit: And a choice quote I got, 'If the No vote wins, it will not have been because of the campaign.' 

All I can say as a half-Croat is, an awful lot of nationalist Scots are going to be rather disappointed when they find out you can have useless, out-of-touch leaders in a state of 5.1 million just as much as you can in a state of 61 million. (Still, at least my relations had the excuse of actual repression to escape from.)

[garbon]

for that, they needed American enlightment, wich holds that patriotism is totally different than nationalism, being a positive force, while nationalism is the root of all evil. According to Valmy, Nationalists are worst than nazis.

You're just straight up on crack if you got this from the discussion.

[Grallon]

...

Grallon believes independance should happen right now, I think it's a lost cause for now, but will eventually resurface because of the nature of our political system wich concentrates powers in the hands of the central governement and barely leaves any room to provinces to really govern themselves the way they see fit.

I'd be more than satisfied with a renewed deal with Canada, one that allows us to sign the Constitution on terms we can agree with.  Grallon would totally reject that, though.

No Viper, Grallon believes we've given more than enough chances to our neighbors to make amends and he is convinced their mind is set to the "our way or the highway" attitude.  They will not accommodate any demands or suggestions coming from Quebec.  Not that our current government would make any such demands of course - witness the general confusion Couillard is mired in whenever the topic is raised. 

As a matter of fact many suspect the treacherous motherfucker is intent on signing the accursed 1982 constitution - proclaimed without the consent of the National Assembly - for the 150th anniversary of the 1867 agreement in 2017.  All that without a referendum and while he's been elected by only 30% of the population.  I loathe that criminal cabal with a passion!

So in that light there's nothing more to be said and we shouldn't waste any more time in a federation that is strangling us one step at a time.

And so I wish the Scots well.  And I am convinced that if they hesitate and vote No - they *will* get fucked over and end up in a worse position than they are now - just like we were.



G.

[Berkut]

Those poor strangling Quebecois. Man, that really does sound terrible. Strangling. With a wire, or just random lynching?

[Razgovory]

Do you not see he's talking specifically about land ownership?

I regard farmland and houses as "land ownership".

[Razgovory]

Then how did they get those huge tribal confederations and empires?  Seems like you would have to subdue new subjects to me.

Pre-contact, the only tribal confederation we know of was the Iroquois, and that was after a period of war, where the chiefs united in 5 nations.  The 6th nations begged the Iroquois to be part of their league, after conflicts with the Dutch & British settlers.
Since we have no written record, we only rely on oral tradition and archeological evidence.

Indians later allied with the French came in 1701.  Prior to the destruction of the Hurons, the French had a policy of not giving firearms to non converts.  That changed afterwards.

  There were plenty of tribal confederacies prior to the Europeans.  The first Europeans often made note of them.  Here's one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Confederation  You haven't actually provided any evidence for your ideas.  On the other hand many things you have said have been demonstrated to be false like this tribal confederacies.

[The Brain]

Can't the Francophonies just give up their language? My ancestors did no problem.

[Grallon]

Those poor strangling Quebecois. Man, that really does sound terrible. Strangling. With a wire, or just random lynching?

You're being irritating now.  I'll let Viper try to explain this to you - one more time (I marvel at his patience in fact) - although in order to avoid coming to the same conclusion I came to he'll most likely downplay everything I said...



G.

[Eddie Teach]

Those poor strangling Quebecois. Man, that really does sound terrible. Strangling. With a wire, or just random lynching?

Shoelaces.

[Razgovory]

Berkut, look at Grallon's avatar.  That should tell you what you need to know about his ideology.

[HVC]

Is quebec going to give back the 250 billion in equalization payments it received?

[mongers]

Calling all British patriots and fellow travelers/UK residents, let's rally our forces and invade that long winded devoid of significance of a threat that is the Canadian politics one.

I know it won't be easy, some of us will succumb to the bleakness of the page long multi-quote nested posts, but we'll have the consolation in winning through, that the summer patriots who fell by the wayside in the face of yet another BB/Grallon slugfest will not see.

We should have recruited Languish's Canadians into the referendum campaign if we wanted to keep Scotland in the UK. "Project Tedium" would have assured a low turnout and NO vote 

Yes, that would have been a better campaign, but all is lost, let them drone on, maybe a new thread? 

[Valmy]

This is after all, at heart, a divorce; you can't force one partner to stay in the marriage if they longer wish it.

I think you can. We did it.

That was different since it was a result of the Slave Power Conspiracy.

[viper37]

LOL all I said was that ethnically based states are a bad idea. 

I do remember our previous conversations on the subject.  I was just describing your general feeling, not your textual words.

There's just no difference between nationalism and patriotism, except that patriotims requires a state.

[garbon]

There's just no difference between nationalism and patriotism, except that patriotims requires a state.

I mean was Valmy or any American decrying nationalism as an evil? (Though clearly it can be when taken to extremes) I only recall raising an eyebrow that nationalism was a cause of the American Revolution.