Senate GOP seizes control in political coup

[DontSayBanana]

Ok, so any job outside of the private sector is over paid than? I believe that's what you are trying to say.

I think Berkut takes the term "public servant" a little too literally.

Honestly, I'm seeing a trend: according to Berkut, our economic situation should be easily solved by any idiot who's inclined to his point of view. According to Berkut, any idiot inclined to his point of view should see the wisdom of littering the road behind us with corpses of companies and labor groups. Berkut also seems to have very definite ideas of what salary employees should receive for doing what job.

I'm curious how well Berkut would fare looking for a new job in the current labor market.

[Berkut]

In comparison to what those other professions earn in my location my pay is about right.

None of which are subject to market forces either.

Well it depends on whether those other professions are public or private sector.

And it does go to how setting public sector salaries is actually very tricky.  In a lot of fields the skills you pick up in public service are not at all easily transferred to the private sector.  Strix's job in particular (I know since Mrs. B has a roughly similar job).  So it's hard to make comparisons.   However that does not mean the gov't should take such a hard line on salaries to take them right above the point where people would quit and take up a career in fast food and no more.  That would be highly detrimental to the public service - but only in the long run.

It's also tough because the direct comparisons are usually between other government jobs in other jurisdictions, but those are similarily somewhat removed from the private sector.

Why shouldn't the government pay them whatever it takes to retain the level of competence necessary to do the job in an adequate manner?

[Admiral Yi]

Ok, so any job outside of the private sector is over paid than? I believe that's what you are trying to say.

Not necessarily.  You need to look at vacancies and turnover to determine if public sector jobs are overpaid or not.

[Berkut]

Ok, so any job outside of the private sector is over paid than? I believe that's what you are trying to say.

I think Berkut takes the term "public servant" a little too literally.

Honestly, I'm seeing a trend: according to Berkut, our economic situation should be easily solved by any idiot who's inclined to his point of view. According to Berkut, any idiot inclined to his point of view should see the wisdom of littering the road behind us with corpses of companies and labor groups. Berkut also seems to have very definite ideas of what salary employees should receive for doing what job.

I'm curious how well Berkut would fare looking for a new job in the current labor market.

Wow, that is some serious projecting you are doing there, or something.

I have no idea that a parole officer should make - I just know it should be based on what the market will pay them, rather than what they can blackmail some politician into paying them.

I imagine I would do about as well as other people with my expertise do in the current labor market, where I to be laid off - why would I do any worse or better?

I have no idea what you are babbling on about in regards to labor groups and corpses. Is this about my lack of interest in Obama using my money to bail out unions?

[katmai]

I'll answer for him, no. 

Actually, my civilian job is not known here and does need to be either. I can say i do serve the american people to the best of my abilities (not much abilities, I know).

gigolo!

[garbon]

Obviously the solution then is to get rid of the police.

I knew there was a reason that I don't dislike you.

[DontSayBanana]

Not necessarily.  You need to look at vacancies and turnover to determine if public sector jobs are overpaid or not.

Also required education and experience. Jobs doing order entry on cushy Windows computers that one can understand after a single several-week crash course in MS Office shouldn't necessarily be the same earnings potential as where someone needs to have 3 years experience running AS/400 systems and a BS in computer science, for example.

[garbon]

Also required education and experience. Jobs doing order entry on cushy Windows computers that one can understand after a single several-week crash course in MS Office shouldn't necessarily be the same earnings potential as where someone needs to have 3 years experience running AS/400 systems and a BS in computer science, for example.

Considering that one can find bachelor degrees in cracker jack boxes these days...

[DGuller]

Also required education and experience. Jobs doing order entry on cushy Windows computers that one can understand after a single several-week crash course in MS Office shouldn't necessarily be the same earnings potential as where someone needs to have 3 years experience running AS/400 systems and a BS in computer science, for example.

That sounds like a Gosplan approach.  Let the market price that education and experience.

[DontSayBanana]

Wow, that is some serious projecting you are doing there, or something.

I have no idea that a parole officer should make - I just know it should be based on what the market will pay them, rather than what they can blackmail some politician into paying them.

I imagine I would do about as well as other people with my expertise do in the current labor market, where I to be laid off - why would I do any worse or better?

I have no idea what you are babbling on about in regards to labor groups and corpses. Is this about my lack of interest in Obama using my money to bail out unions?

1. Projecting? You're the one assuming every union employee is paid massively above the norm. Why don't you go looking up some numbers before you start making those kinds of claims.

2. As much as you bitch about "entitlement cultures," you certainly act like you're owed something; the comment was because you can't seem to grasp the fact that employees need to be competitive with others in their qualifications range. You'd hardline and then wonder why every time your resume went either to the bottom of the pile or straight to the trash can.

3. I said nothing about the feds specifically. I'm talking about the way you've been taking a massive dump on anyone in the public sector and any government aid program that's been mentioned over the past several months. The troll is getting old. You're so far anti-government as to be borderline anarchist. We get it.

[Barrister]

Well it depends on whether those other professions are public or private sector.

And it does go to how setting public sector salaries is actually very tricky.  In a lot of fields the skills you pick up in public service are not at all easily transferred to the private sector.  Strix's job in particular (I know since Mrs. B has a roughly similar job).  So it's hard to make comparisons.   However that does not mean the gov't should take such a hard line on salaries to take them right above the point where people would quit and take up a career in fast food and no more.  That would be highly detrimental to the public service - but only in the long run.

It's also tough because the direct comparisons are usually between other government jobs in other jurisdictions, but those are similarily somewhat removed from the private sector.

Why shouldn't the government pay them whatever it takes to retain the level of competence necessary to do the job in an adequate manner?

My point was (and to slightly alter our words) that you need to pay whatever is required to retain the level of well qualified people necessary to do the job in an superior manner both today and in the future.

You want to avoid the situation where you can only attract people who meet bare minimum requirements, and to avoid paying so little that it discourages people from getting the necessary training leading to a shortage down the road.

Of course that's easier said that done...

[DGuller]

Ok, so pay the government workers efficiency wages.  That's still a free market concept.

[Admiral Yi]

1. Projecting? You're the one assuming every union employee is paid massively above the norm. Why don't you go looking up some numbers before you start making those kinds of claims.

UAW workers used to be paid $23/hour + another $17/hour in fringes.  West coast longshoremen make something like 180/year.  Unionized airline pilots make like 200/year.

[Barrister]

Ok, so pay the government workers efficiency wages.  That's still a free market concept.

Not sure of that pearticualr terms, but yes I've been saying all along (and as a public servant) that public servant wages need to be closely associated with the free market.

[DontSayBanana]

Considering that one can find bachelor degrees in cracker jack boxes these days...

Nothing to do with the availability. They might be in cracker jack boxes, but even assuming it's just from a cheap public four-year, that cracker jack box has cost an average of $6,500. In the case of a private four-year, that box of useless junk costs an average of $25K to someone who graduated in the past year or so.

I'm a little leery of letting the market set the value without oversight. Did everybody forget those empty houses all over the place already? Apples and oranges? OK, let's bring up another example of publicly traded companies where market deregulation bit us in the ass. The market is an entity unto itself, but it's the same kind of entity as your average cornfield- the only way it has value is if it is properly watched over and tended.

For those of you saying to let the market set the price, that only works when all the actors are being scrupulous. Where there's a buck to be made, you can't count on anyone to be that virtuous.