Senate GOP seizes control in political coup

[DontSayBanana]

UAW workers used to be paid $23/hour + another $17/hour in fringes.  West coast longshoremen make something like 180/year.  Unionized airline pilots make like 200/year.

Yeah. I remember; I was one of the ones who actually posted the breakdowns, at which point we found the difference was in healthcare and retirement costs, and that once we discounted VEBA, there was only a dollar or two discrepancy.

[DGuller]

For those of you saying to let the market set the price, that only works when all the actors are being scrupulous. Where there's a buck to be made, you can't count on anyone to be that virtuous.

So you're saying that free market doesn't work when people are trying to maximize profits?

[Admiral Yi]

Yeah. I remember; I was one of the ones who actually posted the breakdowns, at which point we found the difference was in healthcare and retirement costs, and that once we discounted VEBA, there was only a dollar or two discrepancy.

What do you mean by discount VEBA, pretend it doesn't exist?

Plus there's the "job bank."

[DontSayBanana]

@DG: Not at all. I'm saying that free market doesn't work when an influential actor is unethical, and from the daily laundry list of BS that's been going on on this side of the pond, I don't think it's reasonable to assume all of those influential forces and actors will be ethical.

@Yi: VEBA is employee-contribution and voluntary. The CBA basically covers the employee's contribution, but considering the ones with higher earnings are more likely to buy in, I think it's reasonable to assume that it washes out when it comes to the take-home pay.

[Admiral Yi]

@Yi: VEBA is employee-contribution and voluntary. The CBA basically covers the employee's contribution, but considering the ones with higher earnings are more likely to buy in, I think it's reasonable to assume that it washes out when it comes to the take-home pay.

You've lost me.  I thought VEBA was the pension plan.  No?  What's CBA?

[garbon]

Nothing to do with the availability. They might be in cracker jack boxes, but even assuming it's just from a cheap public four-year, that cracker jack box has cost an average of $6,500. In the case of a private four-year, that box of useless junk costs an average of $25K to someone who graduated in the past year or so.

Okay?

[Barrister]

I'm a little leery of letting the market set the value without oversight.

The market is an entity unto itself, but it's the same kind of entity as your average cornfield- the only way it has value is if it is properly watched over and tended.

For those of you saying to let the market set the price, that only works when all the actors are being scrupulous.

Where there's a buck to be made, you can't count on anyone to be that virtuous.

[Jaron]

Let the invisible hand guide us through these tough times. Down with Keynesian economics!

[MadImmortalMan]

Contrary to popular myth, Adam Smith was not anything close to laissez faire.

[Jaron]

Contrary to popular myth, Adam Smith was not anything close to laissez faire.

Oh ? On what do you base your statement?

[MadImmortalMan]

Contrary to popular myth, Adam Smith was not anything close to laissez faire.

Oh ? On what do you base your statement?

I read books. Ones written by Adam Smith.   

[Jaron]

Like?

[MadImmortalMan]

Like?

The Theory of Moral Sentiments, for example? It is remarkably unlike what we think of as the selfish core of free-market economics. And written before The Wealth of Nations as I recall. "Laissez Faire" was invented by a small group of kooky Frenchmen. Smith was dismissive of them.

[ulmont]

Like?

Wealth of Nations?

[Neil]

Unionized airline pilots make like 200/year.

And non-unionized airline pilots make $8k a year and crash their planes in order to escape the agony that is their lives.

The system works.