Senate GOP seizes control in political coup

[lustindarkness]

Yeap, market drives the salary of jobs, even I understand that.

[Berkut]

You're totally missing Berkut's point Strix.  He's saying that it doesn't matter how much you save or cost the state, your job should be based on the value of it as it benefits society more or less, not the bottomline of the budget.

At the risk of trying to speak for Berkut () I don't think he means that at all.

Strix's job should be based on the free market, not on any artsy-fartsy evaluation of "value" or "worth".  If the State needs to pay $70k to get people to work in that job, then fine.  But if they can get away with paying $45k, then thats all they should pay.

Indeed.

but what is best about Strix is not that he is astoundingly over-paid - that is hardly unusual for a state employee in New York (and remember, his true salary is a LOT more than $75/year). It is that he is this supposed conservative guy who has this cherry job given him by the very socialist system he claims to despise...and yet he cannot bring himself to just admit that in fact he is the recipient of a system he would bitterly oppose if it wasn't directly benefiting him, so he has become this total pro-union tool.

Which really is just damn hilarious. It would be like grallon suddenly defending venture capitalism while still insisting that he hates the entire capitalist system because his uncle left him a bunch of money in stocks or something.

[ulmont]

The average cost to house an inmate in prison is roughly $40,000+ a year

Boy, it looks like it's time for another edition of "How Much Money Are We Flushing Down The Goddamn Toilet With The War On Drugs?"

[Strix]

But Strix a street sweeper earns minimum wage, but if we had no street sweepers our cities would become ugly and filled with trash, leading to plummeting property values.  That would cost the city billions.  Does that mean we need to dramatically increase the wages of street sweepers?

You can come up with all kinds of examples and counter examples.  Like Berkut suggested, directly I only cost the government money.  So should they cut my salary?

The only proper way to determine salaries is by reference to the free market.  On an open market what does a position with this kind of experience and training receive.  Yes it means sometimes you get "undeserving" people earning huge sums (I know rig pigs with no education and experience doubling my salary), while other "deserving" people earning peanuts.  But there's no other way to do it.

I understand what you are saying. The problem is that Berkut doesn't believe that any job is valid if it's tainted by a union. That any union worker is automatically overpaid and inefficient at best. He does not believe that a free market exists in the same place as a union.

So, there is really no point discussing the issue with him because his bias prevents him from honestly addressing any discussion.

Do I feel I am overpaid? No. Why not? I pointed out the budget savings that my job provides. I also am required to have the experience, training, skill, and knowledge of a law enforcement officer, social worker, substance abuse provider, and a lawyer not to mention other various little odds and ends. In comparison to what those other professions earn in my location my pay is about right.

[Berkut]

The average cost to house an inmate in prison is roughly $40,000+ a year

Boy, it looks like it's time for another edition of "How Much Money Are We Flushing Down The Goddamn Toilet With The War On Drugs?"

Actually, if we let all those drug offenders go, then Strix would not ahve nearly as many people to babysit, and hence we would end up LOSING money, since he saves us vast piles of cash per person.

Clearly this is a terrible idea.

you: fail at new York State Republican Union Employee Economics.

[Neil]

No sir, I do not wish to troll this board anymore. But I do think the GOP is going off the deep end and it concerns me greatly as an American. I live in a Republican household and some of the things I hear from my own family shock me.

Surely it is the same across the nation.

Than get a job and move out you freeloading Democrat!

I can't work right now. I'm on disability.

How can you be so disabled that you can't approve people's cheques?

[Admiral Yi]

In comparison to what those other professions earn in my location my pay is about right.

None of which are subject to market forces either.

[Strix]

But he can "retire" after 20 years at 50% salary for the rest of his life, for example. How much is that worth?

No, I can't. Please do some research before discussing something.

[Sophie Scholl]

Multi-classing never makes you as efficient as someone who went with just one of the classes you multi-ed in.

[Berkut]

I would like to point one thing out:

I am not that different from Strix. If I had an in to a cushy state job where I would be incredibly overpaid and get amazingly generous benefits, I would jump on it in a heartbeat, even if it meant I had to knock on people doors at night.

However, I would not suddenly become a pro-union talking head. I would cheerfully acknowledge that my job was over-compensated, and would even vote for politicians who favored cutting my salary (well, as long as it was cutting state employee salaries in general, as opposed to mine in particular....).

[Sophie Scholl]

  The only thing New York's politicians can agree upon:    Cut his salary now!

[Strix]

In comparison to what those other professions earn in my location my pay is about right.

None of which are subject to market forces either.

Ok, so any job outside of the private sector is over paid than? I believe that's what you are trying to say.

[Berkut]

But Strix a street sweeper earns minimum wage, but if we had no street sweepers our cities would become ugly and filled with trash, leading to plummeting property values.  That would cost the city billions.  Does that mean we need to dramatically increase the wages of street sweepers?

You can come up with all kinds of examples and counter examples.  Like Berkut suggested, directly I only cost the government money.  So should they cut my salary?

The only proper way to determine salaries is by reference to the free market.  On an open market what does a position with this kind of experience and training receive.  Yes it means sometimes you get "undeserving" people earning huge sums (I know rig pigs with no education and experience doubling my salary), while other "deserving" people earning peanuts.  But there's no other way to do it.

I understand what you are saying. The problem is that Berkut doesn't believe that any job is valid if it's tainted by a union.

LOL, wow, that is one fucking whopper of a strawman there Strix!

Now, I say YOUR job is over-aid, and the data makes it clear that I am right. I have said nothing about EVERY union job, and I call you a liar until you can show me making any kind of claim like that.

That any union worker is automatically overpaid and inefficient at best. He does not believe that a free market exists in the same place as a union.

Again, I do not believe a free market exists in the same place as the state of New Yorks employees union, and the data proves that is the case.

So, there is really no point discussing the issue with him because his bias prevents him from honestly addressing any discussion.

Yeah, there are some honesty issues here for sure. You are lying out of your ass.

Do I feel I am overpaid? No. Why not? I pointed out the budget savings that my job provides.

Which has nothing to do with what you are paid, as that class in basic econ would teach you.

I also am required to have the experience, training, skill, and knowledge of a law enforcement officer, social worker, substance abuse provider, and a lawyer not to mention other various little odds and ends. In comparison to what those other professions earn in my location my pay is about right.

You do not need a law degree to do your job, nor do you need any more skills than those possessed by all the other people doing your job. This is like the study that showed that housewives should make a million a year because they have to be able to multi-task, just like a CEO!

In comparison to what other people doing exactly what you do make in non-union locations, you are vastly over-paid.

[Barrister]

In comparison to what those other professions earn in my location my pay is about right.

None of which are subject to market forces either.

Well it depends on whether those other professions are public or private sector.

And it does go to how setting public sector salaries is actually very tricky.  In a lot of fields the skills you pick up in public service are not at all easily transferred to the private sector.  Strix's job in particular (I know since Mrs. B has a roughly similar job).  So it's hard to make comparisons.   However that does not mean the gov't should take such a hard line on salaries to take them right above the point where people would quit and take up a career in fast food and no more.  That would be highly detrimental to the public service - but only in the long run.

It's also tough because the direct comparisons are usually between other government jobs in other jurisdictions, but those are similarily somewhat removed from the private sector.

[Berkut]

In comparison to what those other professions earn in my location my pay is about right.

None of which are subject to market forces either.

Ok, so any job outside of the private sector is over paid than? I believe that's what you are trying to say.

I am pretty sure that isn't what he is saying.