Another reason not to fear China's military might

[Valmy]

Name one

Name one what?  An innovative and excellent military mind who never-the-less often came off as an idiot?  Ferdinand Foch.

[The Minsky Moment]

Anyone who hasn't read Amateurs, To Arms! http://www.amazon.com/Amateurs-To-Arms-Military-Campaigns/dp/0306806533 needs to do so immediately if they think the US has avoided selecting officers based on politics.  No American commander has probably ever shown skills in actually fighting a war before the war starts, bar Bobby Lee. Maybe Nimitz or Pershing, but I think those were flukes.

Winfield Scott?

[Threviel]

So. How would you guys have made a success of the Somme? Or Verdun? Or someplace else? How could you improve on the historical results?

I mean, the British army went from a small professional army to a mass army in 4 years and in the end they kicked some serious German ass. The French stood up to the Germans for four years and carried the brunt of the war almost for the duration. In my eyes the leadership did fairly good, sure a lot of mistakes, but all in all a good effort.

How would you guys have solved the logistical nightmare of trench warfare better?

[Zanza]

In hindsight? Dig in, never attack and use the time and resources to invent everything necessary for a Blitzkrieg to break through the trench line.

[Valmy]

In hindsight? Dig in, never attack and use the time and resources to invent everything necessary for a Blitzkrieg to break through the trench line.

Well yeah am I supreme dictator of my country here?  If I am being put in the position of an army commander and told to take Verdun I am not sure I could do much better even knowing what I know now....I mean in addition to being completely unqualified and unsuited to the job.

[Admiral Yi]

How would you guys have solved the logistical nightmare of trench warfare better?

Strosstruppen.

[The Brain]

So. How would you guys have made a success of the Somme? Or Verdun? Or someplace else? How could you improve on the historical results?

I mean, the British army went from a small professional army to a mass army in 4 years and in the end they kicked some serious German ass. The French stood up to the Germans for four years and carried the brunt of the war almost for the duration. In my eyes the leadership did fairly good, sure a lot of mistakes, but all in all a good effort.

How would you guys have solved the logistical nightmare of trench warfare better?

Flaming pigs.

[Ideologue]

So. How would you guys have made a success of the Somme? Or Verdun? Or someplace else? How could you improve on the historical results?

I mean, the British army went from a small professional army to a mass army in 4 years and in the end they kicked some serious German ass. The French stood up to the Germans for four years and carried the brunt of the war almost for the duration. In my eyes the leadership did fairly good, sure a lot of mistakes, but all in all a good effort.

How would you guys have solved the logistical nightmare of trench warfare better?

Poison gas against population centers.

[HVC]

Things were so bungled logistically in the British Army that they regularly would go over to the French soldiers and beg rations from them.

have you tried English food?If I were an English soldier I'd be begging the French for food too, stocked with rations or no

[The Brain]

So. How would you guys have made a success of the Somme? Or Verdun? Or someplace else? How could you improve on the historical results?

I mean, the British army went from a small professional army to a mass army in 4 years and in the end they kicked some serious German ass. The French stood up to the Germans for four years and carried the brunt of the war almost for the duration. In my eyes the leadership did fairly good, sure a lot of mistakes, but all in all a good effort.

How would you guys have solved the logistical nightmare of trench warfare better?

Poison gas against population centers.

Ohio is still around.

[grumbler]

Anyone who hasn't read Amateurs, To Arms! http://www.amazon.com/Amateurs-To-Arms-Military-Campaigns/dp/0306806533 needs to do so immediately if they think the US has avoided selecting officers based on politics.  No American commander has probably ever shown skills in actually fighting a war before the war starts, bar Bobby Lee. Maybe Nimitz or Pershing, but I think those were flukes.

Winfield Scott?

While I think Scott demonstrated great ability in the War of 1812, I don't think it was necessarily great command ability.  I'll give you that he did so as much as Bobby Lee did in the Mexican-American War, though, so your point is accepted.

[Agelastus]

So. How would you guys have made a success of the Somme?

If I had absolute control and authority? Assuming I lacked both perfect foresight and the iron will of Haig (yet was somehow still in unchallenged command?)

Well, I like to think of myself as more of a Plumer than a Rawlinson, so...

I'd not fight it. I'd spend 1916 working on small scale attacks to give my divisions and, as importantly, my brigadiers and higher ranks experience (something both the "Kitchener Divisions" and the newly raised Territorial formations badly needed.) And to experiment with the tactics needed to break into the German lines, of course.

In 1916 just about every element of the Army was only about half-ready considering the performance improvement shown in 1917 by all arms. Getting the army ready for 1917 without going through a meat-grinder would be the goal.

Then in 1917 I'd try and grind the German Army down with a broad front application of "bite and hold" as soon as the weather broke and the ground dried in the Spring. As broad a front and attacking as often as my artillery numbers would allow.

Of course, I wouldn't get the chance to do this because in reality just like Douglas Haig I'd be tied to what the French did and wanted in 1916.

And even if I did get the chance I'd still fail in 1917 due to the weather across too large a section of my front*.

So maybe as people have said very little could have been done to improve things.




*even if the absence of the Somme offensive had butterflied away the German withdrawal to the Hindenburg line in the winter of 1916-17 I'd probably have launched my offensive in the northern sector of my line given the important targets not that far behind the German front. And because if I unhinged the German line sufficiently in Flanders they'd probably withdraw from the bulge/salient to the south anyway.

[jimmy olsen]

And if you were in charge of ze Germans?

[Zanza]

And if you were in charge of ze Germans?

Offer status quo ante bellum and the head of Kaiser Wilhelm II.

[Threviel]

So. No one really has a better solution than the generals of the time, and still they are known as, at the least, incompetent. I sure as hell have no better solution than what they did.

France has to fight and attack the Germans to get then out of France.
British actions are in a large measure decided by their French allies and the quality of their army.
Austria and Germany have to attack in order to win the war before the blockade decides it.
Italy has to attack a very small front in order to do anything.
The Russians kicked Austrian ass, but couldn't really contend with Germany.

And all this with new technology and on a far larger scale than any previous war. In my mind the leadership in most places did very well and doesn't really deserve the scorn it gets.