Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Admiral Yi]

But Yi was characterising such things as representative of the march.

I was not.

Yi's position in particular sounds very aligned with the counter-protesters and against a peaceful march for peace.

I am disputing that it was a march for peace.

No?
Most supporters of Palestinian freedom don't want ethnic cleansing of Jewish people.
Some support the elimination of Israel and the formation of a multi-ethnic neo-Palestine, more support a two state solution where Israel basically stays as it appears on a map. Some even favour compromises where some settlements are given to Israel in exchange for other land.

This reminds me a lot of the defund the police kerfuffle. 

What a majority of supporters of Palestinian want is irrelevant to the meaning of from the river to the sea.  Words have intrinsic meaning.  If someone wants an end to the occupation of the WB and Gaza, there are perfectly clear words that convey exactly that meaning.  If you want a two state solution, don't say the exact opposite.

Then that's just daft.
If your house is on fire do you call for equal fire extinguishers for all in that moment?

You probably don't hold a march opposed to fires.

[Sheilbh]

Goodbye Coffey. I'm glad she realized it was "time".

She's an odd one. Got very good reviews from civil servants in DWP and I was surprised that DWP didn't collapse during covid.

But obviously very close to Truss and totally unfit at DEFRA.

[HVC]

Math is the right way. This guy agrees with me so I believe he's right


*Edit* woman, she's a woman. Extra demerit points if you disagree with her for mansplaining

I demand Josq admit the linguistic superiority of math without and an s. That or he can explain if he enjoyed gymS exercises in gymS class.

The rest of the Brit's are exempt because you aren't pushy about it

[Josquius]

I did PE in PE.
I'd never call gymnastics gym or gyms.

I am disputing that it was a march for peace.

They sure made a hell of a effort to highlight that was their main goal.

This reminds me a lot of the defund the police kerfuffle. 

What a majority of supporters of Palestinian want is irrelevant to the meaning of from the river to the sea.  Words have intrinsic meaning.  If someone wants an end to the occupation of the WB and Gaza, there are perfectly clear words that convey exactly that meaning.  If you want a two state solution, don't say the exact opposite.

And if we are looking at the words themselves they in no way call for the death of Israelis.
It's only their use by the crazies which gives them this association.

[HVC]

I did PE in PE.
I'd never call gymnastics gym or gyms.

Collin's dictionary indicates gym class is a thing in the uk, but if you want to play that game, ever bring a gymS bag to work out and try some gymS equipment like the parallel bars or the pommel horse?

But really, read the link

[PJL]

It's maths not math as there is more than one strand of mathematical knowledge. Also, everybody says physics and not physic. Case closed as far as I am concerned.

[Sheilbh]

Also physic is what doctors train in - and I'm all for a challenging curriculum but that seems a bit much for 16 year olds.

[Josquius]

I did PE in PE.
I'd never call gymnastics gym or gyms.

Collin's dictionary indicates gym class is a thing in the uk, but if you want to play that game, ever bring a gymS bag to work out and try some gymS equipment like the parallel bars or the pommel horse?

But really, read the link

Maths is a countable noun. There are many types of maths: algebra, geometry, etc...
Contrast to say Lego which is a substance.

And no. I've never heard of gym class in the uk. I might bring a sports bag to a gym(nasium).

[Admiral Yi]

They sure made a hell of a effort to highlight that was their main goal.

You and I have very, very different understandings of "hell of an effort."

And if we are looking at the words themselves they in no way call for the death of Israelis.
It's only their use by the crazies which gives them this association.

Agreed.  There is no explicit call for genocide or ethnic cleansing in those words.

Nutty Israelis use Judea and Samaria instead of the West Bank.  There is no explicit call for genocide or ethnic cleansing in those words either.  But there is a strong subtext, contextualized by the existence of statements that the correct solution to the Palestinian problem is the removal of all Palestinians to another place, that what those people mean is that this land is historically Jewish, and the religiously ordained fix is to make it entirely Jewish.

Similarly there is a contextually derived meaning to from the river to the sea that there will be no Jews left in that land.

[HVC]

Maths is a countable noun. There are many types of maths: algebra, geometry, etc...
Contrast to say Lego which is a substance.

No one reads the link

The problem is "mathematics" isn't plural. It's singular. It describes a thing—a field of study—not many things. The S on the end doesn't indicate plurality; rather, it means something totally different. It functions as a "noun marker," turning the adjective "mathematic" into the noun "mathematics."

The letter S does the same thing when it turns the adjective "acoustic" into "acoustics," "pediatric" into "pediatrics," and "politic" into "politics."

All hail Math

[garbon]

It's maths not math as there is more than one strand of mathematical knowledge. Also, everybody says physics and not physic. Case closed as far as I am concerned.

But mathematics is one field made up of those strands.

Also, I don't think physics I'd shortened like math is from mathematics.

[Josquius]

They sure made a hell of a effort to highlight that was their main goal.

You and I have very, very different understandings of "hell of an effort."

And if we are looking at the words themselves they in no way call for the death of Israelis.
It's only their use by the crazies which gives them this association.

Agreed.  There is no explicit call for genocide or ethnic cleansing in those words.

Nutty Israelis use Judea and Samaria instead of the West Bank.  There is no explicit call for genocide or ethnic cleansing in those words either.  But there is a strong subtext, contextualized by the existence of statements that the correct solution to the Palestinian problem is the removal of all Palestinians to another place, that what those people mean is that this land is historically Jewish, and the religiously ordained fix is to make it entirely Jewish.

Similarly there is a contextually derived meaning to from the river to the sea that there will be no Jews left in that land.

What you're saying is akin to saying Judea is a forbidden term no matter the context.
There definitely are contexts when this is acceptable.

The meaning of from the river to the sea is in no way a call for genocide.
Many pro Palestinian people have explicitly said this isn't what it means.
Given its triggering potential that totally derails conversation with potential worry for Jewish people and the likes of you instantly jumping to any mention of it at all meaning die Jews die,  it is a unwise thing to say. But I won't budge on the actual facts of its meaning.

https://forward.com/opinion/415250/from-the-river-to-the-sea-doesnt-mean-what-you-think-it-means/

[Admiral Yi]

Well, it's an interesting article though there are big chunks that smack of apologia and obfuscation.

The article mentions the 15% of Palestinians who favor expulsion.  Should we assume the other 85% are in favor of a peaceful, unified multi-ethnic state?  Or we could ask some of your protestors, particularly the ones who chanted from the river to the sea, if they favor that sort of state.

[Sheilbh]

I hadn't actually clocked this, but just saw a thread by Sunder Katwala pointing out that James Cleverly is the first black British Home Secretary. His mum's from Sierra Leone (and his first call as Foreign Secretary was to the President of Sierra Leone) who moved here to train as a nurse in 1960 and his dad was white British. He's spoken about his heritage as part of Black History Month before.

As Katwala noted, none of the media (papers or broadcast news) pointed this out or commented on it. Several noted that now all four of the "great offices of state" are men and all four went to private school (and Oxford). In part I think this is just the new normal, which is good news. But it is interesting that it didn't even get noted while - obviously - his gender and education/class background did It's interesting though as it probably would have been something flagged in the press coverage just 5-6 years ago. I saw Tariq Madood, who is a professor of sociology and has been working on studying multi-culturalism in Britain for about 40-50 years, note this replying to Katwala that there was a section on Radio 4 this morning discussing what Braverman's sacking meant for women and the Cabinet, but no mention of what it meant from the perspective of ethnicity or minorities (either her sacking or Cleverly's move).

Perhaps similar I saw a picture of India's Foreign Secretary meeting with Sunak on Sunday for Diwali - and with the standard British-Indian diplomatic stuff (gifting the PM a cricket bat ) I noticed that in the background in Downing Street on a ledge was a statue of Ganesha with flowers at the base. Similarly the Tories (who are also clearly aiming to win more of the Indian vote - with, it seems, some success) sharing an image of the Sunak family lighting Diwali lights on the door of Number 10. Normal but also, in historic context, quite unusual. It is interesting how quickly ethnic diversity at the top has become a new normal - especially given that until 2013 the only black or ethnic minority cabinet minister had been Paul Boateng.

I think returning the conversation to "they're all privately educated men" is probably right, but interesting anyway.

[Razgovory]

Well, it's an interesting article though there are big chunks that smack of apologia and obfuscation.

The article mentions the 15% of Palestinians who favor expulsion.  Should we assume the other 85% are in favor of a peaceful, unified multi-ethnic state?  Or we could ask some of your protestors, particularly the ones who chanted from the river to the sea, if they favor that sort of state.

I'm sure she wants peaceful coexistence.  She even has a happy little parachute for some reason.