Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[HVC]

Ah. As I suspected. So the UK is doing better on those international rankings that say the Japanese school system / exam taking citizen factory are the best in the world?

Really looking at the wrong metrics there.

edit- ah no. Its worse. China is number 1.

Soul crushing does not mean ineffective. Those Chinese students are better than us at math, for example. Which apparently England doesn't think is important anyway

[Sheilbh]

As a person educated in Canada, that's insane. What classes are mandatory after 16?

None. It's entirely your choice - you can drop anything (or, indeed, everything).

[Josquius]

As a person educated in Canada, that's insane. What classes are mandatory after 16?

None. It's entirely your choice - you can drop anything (or, indeed, everything).

Didn't they make school till 18 mandatory a decade or so ago? So you have to do something....though it could be a really practical apprenticeship or the like

Ah. As I suspected. So the UK is doing better on those international rankings that say the Japanese school system / exam taking citizen factory are the best in the world?

Really looking at the wrong metrics there.

edit- ah no. Its worse. China is number 1.

Soul crushing does not mean ineffective. Those Chinese students are better than us at math, for example. Which apparently England doesn't think is important anyway

Computers exist. Having no soul but being able to perform amazing mentat feats is nothing to envy.
The traditional way education is focussed on cramming knowledge into your head derives from a time when books were rare and precious, for an age where you can access the sum total of human knowledge with a device in your pocket they're just not relevant.
Far better than passing exams we should be focussing on teaching kids how apply knowledge. How to innovate is the key skill for the future.

[HVC]

As a person educated in Canada, that's insane. What classes are mandatory after 16?

None. It's entirely your choice - you can drop anything (or, indeed, everything).

That's so... odd. I'm irrationally angry at that . Probably different now, but I'm trying to remember what it was in my day (ugh I'm old). Math, English, and a science (chemistry, biology, physics are the options I remember). I don't recall when religion ended, I think grade 10, but might have been longer. I was in catholic school, so that obviously skews that. I took it to grade 13 (now gone) because it was an easy class.

[HVC]

Computers exist. Having no soul but being able to perform amazing mentat feats is nothing to envy.
The traditional way education is focussed on cramming knowledge into your head derives from a time when books were rare and precious, for an age where you can access the sum total of human knowledge with a device in your pocket they're just not relevant.
Far better than passing exams we should be focussing on teaching kids how apply knowledge. How to innovate is the key skill for the future.

Fact cramming is part and parcel of life. being creative is all well and good, but you need the factual building blocks.

And China/japan/ Korea are better then average in lots of subjects, English for example which I always find fascinating. Written anyway. Not saying we should go Korea hard, that's nuts, but ignoring the effectiveness is a mistake too, I think.

Subjects matter too, I think. Themes and events in history matter more than exact dates, for example. But touchy-feely math doesn't seem like it would work

[Josquius]

Computers exist. Having no soul but being able to perform amazing mentat feats is nothing to envy.
The traditional way education is focussed on cramming knowledge into your head derives from a time when books were rare and precious, for an age where you can access the sum total of human knowledge with a device in your pocket they're just not relevant.
Far better than passing exams we should be focussing on teaching kids how apply knowledge. How to innovate is the key skill for the future.

Fact cramming is part and parcel of life. being creative is all well and good, but you need the factual building blocks.

And China/japan/ Korea are better then average in lots of subjects, English for example which I always find fascinating. Written anyway. Not saying we should go Korea hard, that's nuts, but ignoring the effectiveness is a mistake too, I think.

Subjects matter too, I think. Themes and events in history matter more than exact dates, for example. But touchy-feely math doesn't seem like it would work

Where do you get touchy-feely from?

More sensible with mathS is open book exams. When in reality would you have to remember advanced maths?
Better is let the kids have all their notes but give them more questions that involve actually recognising when you'd apply different parts of maths and drawing on the correct parts.
I'd also support moving away from the single exam format, which introduces such a huge amount of luck into many years of schooling, and instead favour teacher-led grading over time.

Moreso with history of course. But even with the likes of maths and science on a general level its best to have a generalist grasp where you can double check the hard facts to draw on them when needed, than to have  deep knowledge of a few random slices. The specialisation and really understanding deeply certain things should come at university where you have the choice of which bits you like.

As you say, according to official world education rankings Japan is actually pretty good at English... but they're not. They just know how to pass the exams. This is useless in the real world.

[HVC]

You'll get me to add an s to math when I'm cold and dead!

I stipulated written over verbal. Pronunciations and accents are hard, especially when your native language is very different. It's something even immigrants never get over.

As for open book, I'll have to disagree there. Part of math is understanding what you're doing. Some kids can use an open book and understand the math but maybe forgot the equation. Many kids can't and are just filling in numbers. Being able to connect the numbered dots is not the same as being able to draw.

[HVC]

Math is the right way. This guy agrees with me so I believe he's right


*Edit* woman, she's a woman. Extra demerit points if you disagree with her for mansplaining

[Sheilbh]

And on the opposite end of Nick Gibb's almost 13 years as Minister for Schools. We now have our 16th Minister for Housing since 2010

[Gups]

And on the opposite end of Nick Gibb's almost 13 years as Minister for Schools. We now have our 16th Minister for Housing since 2010

TBF she's only the third in 2023. We had six in 2022.

[Richard Hakluyt]

So they get introduced to their senior officials and then promptly leave; not a recipe for actually getting things done.

[garbon]

Goodbye Coffey. I'm glad she realized it was "time".

[Gups]

So they get introduced to their senior officials and then promptly leave; not a recipe for actually getting things done.

It is however a good indication of how much the Government care about housing.

[Josquius]

You'll get me to add an s to math when I'm cold and dead!

I stipulated written over verbal. Pronunciations and accents are hard, especially when your native language is very different. It's something even immigrants never get over.

As for open book, I'll have to disagree there. Part of math is understanding what you're doing. Some kids can use an open book and understand the math but maybe forgot the equation. Many kids can't and are just filling in numbers. Being able to connect the numbered dots is not the same as being able to draw.

That's exactly what open book does though?
It's traditional exams which are more connect the dots, can you parrot what the teacher said.

[Sheilbh]

So they get introduced to their senior officials and then promptly leave; not a recipe for actually getting things done.

It is however a good indication of how much the Government care about housing.

Saw this:


Thing that struck me - going back to Labour - is the number who went on to get some pretty big promotions/were senior (Lord Falconer, Yvette Cooper, Caroline Flint, Margaret Beckett, John Healey - then under the Tories, Shapps Brandon Lewis, Barwell, Sharma Raab). Not all of them impressive but a lot on the way up. It feels like Housing is the nightmare junior ministerial brief: important enough that it's a good audition for getting into the cabinet/shadow cabinet; not important enough that anyone thinks continuity matters/anyone notices that it's a revolving door.

It's clearly a key brief for Starmer and you suspect that might mean someone wants to stick at it, but it almost feels like the sort of role that could actually benefit from getting someone in the Lords to do it.

Edit: Separately in part it was because of the coalition but I think Cameron's general reluctance to do re-shuffles was a good thing and it would be good if that came back - although I'm fully aware that it increases the risk of, say, Chris Grayling being Justice Secretary for several years.