The EU thread

[HVC]

In the UK at least tractors already have special rules what with red diesel and all.

Unless the uk is different dyed diesel is just cheaper (less tax) and is dyed so that personal vehicles are caught if they use them.  That being said most tractors over a certain motor size do have diesel particulate filters. Farmers hate them because they're a point of failure, but that's a different matter . They have been getting better though. Compact and subcompact don't require them in NA though, so hobby farmers can still pollute.

[The Larch]

A and B segment is a bit more than a quarter of the market, typically the cheaper end.

How's the market split? I'd assume that B and C segment would be the most of it.

https://www.acea.auto/figure/new-passenger-cars-by-segment-in-eu/

So many more SUVs that I'd have assumed...

[The Larch]

One doubt regarding ICE vehicles that I have is related to those vehicles besides cars. Jos said that trucks are not affected until 2050. What about other kinds of, so to speak, industrial vehicles? Tractors, forklifts, construction machinery... how are those covered?

I just want to point out that forklifts are already electric, at least for the most part.  They're a perfect situation for it - typically in a factory or warehouse with very easy access to electricity, plus don't need to travel very far.

Something like a tractor though is the opposite - out in a field, not with easy access to electricity, may have to travel a pretty fair distance.

I think I'm yet to see a single electric forklift, all those I've seen were diesel powered.

[The Larch]

In the UK at least tractors already have special rules what with red diesel and all.

Red diesel? 

[HVC]

One doubt regarding ICE vehicles that I have is related to those vehicles besides cars. Jos said that trucks are not affected until 2050. What about other kinds of, so to speak, industrial vehicles? Tractors, forklifts, construction machinery... how are those covered?

I just want to point out that forklifts are already electric, at least for the most part.  They're a perfect situation for it - typically in a factory or warehouse with very easy access to electricity, plus don't need to travel very far.

Something like a tractor though is the opposite - out in a field, not with easy access to electricity, may have to travel a pretty fair distance.

I think I'm yet to see a single electric forklift, all those I've seen were diesel powered.

I've worked at places that use them, but they're usually smaller than their counterparts and used for small jobs. Though I'm sure they have larger version.  They having to charge also means places with multiple shifts are less likely to use them.  Natural gas or propane ones are popular here though, which I guess is more environmentally friendly than diesel.

[The Larch]

One doubt regarding ICE vehicles that I have is related to those vehicles besides cars. Jos said that trucks are not affected until 2050. What about other kinds of, so to speak, industrial vehicles? Tractors, forklifts, construction machinery... how are those covered?

I just want to point out that forklifts are already electric, at least for the most part.  They're a perfect situation for it - typically in a factory or warehouse with very easy access to electricity, plus don't need to travel very far.

Something like a tractor though is the opposite - out in a field, not with easy access to electricity, may have to travel a pretty fair distance.

I think I'm yet to see a single electric forklift, all those I've seen were diesel powered.

I've worked at places that use them, but they're usually smaller than their counterparts and used for small jobs. Though I'm sure they have larger version.  They having to charge also means places with multiple shifts are less likely to use them.  Natural gas or propane ones are popular here though, which I guess is more environmentally friendly than diesel.

True, I've seen gas powered ones as well, I had forgotten about them.

[Syt]

In the UK at least tractors already have special rules what with red diesel and all.

Red diesel? 

I assume it might be similar to Germany, where the cheaper oil used for heating was often used for Diesel cars. IIRC they added additives to the heating oil (originally coloring, I think?), but also gave special license plates to farmers so they could get tax rebates when filling up on Diesel.

[The Larch]

In the UK at least tractors already have special rules what with red diesel and all.

Red diesel? 

I assume it might be similar to Germany, where the cheaper oil used for heating was often used for Diesel cars. IIRC they added additives to the heating oil (originally coloring, I think?), but also gave special license plates to farmers so they could get tax rebates when filling up on Diesel.

What we have over here is a special, lower price for diesel intended for farm machinery. Diesel for fishing vessels is also subsidized.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Red diesel is just ordinary diesel with a red dye added. Farmers and suchlike are entitled to use it, it attracts a much lower tax than ordinary diesel. The dye is to prevent dodgy farmers creating a secondary market by selling it on to ordinary road users.

[Tamas]

Red diesel is just ordinary diesel with a red dye added. Farmers and suchlike are entitled to use it, it attracts a much lower tax than ordinary diesel. The dye is to prevent dodgy farmers creating a secondary market by selling it on to ordinary road users.

Hungary had the same thing with painted heating oil at the start of the 90s. "Blonding" heating oil and then selling it as diesel fuel was a massive black market thing that started many an organised crime careers, so it got phased out eventually.

[Josquius]

The point of it being farmers are already being treat very differently to motorists so stands to reason the same would hold with the ice phase out.
I'd be surprised if the wording of the laws say nothing about them though.

[Admiral Yi]

The point of it being farmers are already being treat very differently to motorists so stands to reason the same would hold with the ice phase out.
I'd be surprised if the wording of the laws say nothing about them though.

Because when it comes to global warming there is good carbon and there is bad carbon.

[Josquius]

The point of it being farmers are already being treat very differently to motorists so stands to reason the same would hold with the ice phase out.
I'd be surprised if the wording of the laws say nothing about them though.

Because when it comes to global warming there is good carbon and there is bad carbon.

Yes?

[Admiral Yi]

Yes?

There isn't.

[Josquius]

Yes?

There isn't.

Of course there is.
Something that can be easily replaced with renewables vs something which would cause more emissions (not to mention effort and cost) than it saves to replace.