Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Sheilbh]

Not just the Poles at this point in time I suspect. If the Germans refuse to give permission to send Leopards, they'll likely be ignored and the tanks sent anyway to Ukraine with no future German tank purchases to replace the ones sent. The South Koreans and the Americans will take over the German market share.

The Poles have already started announcing new procurement from the US in recent months - and I imagine that trend will continue and spread.

[Josquius]

Poland seems to be willing to tell Germany to eff off regarding tanks. Even more pressure on Germany to deliver, I guess.

Not just the Poles at this point in time I suspect. If the Germans refuse to give permission to send Leopards, they'll likely be ignored and the tanks sent anyway to Ukraine with no future German tank purchases to replace the ones sent. The South Koreans and the Americans will take over the German market share.

Korea does seem to be the big winner out of this whole thing. Very low key making big money selling armaments.

[The Brain]

Poland seems to be willing to tell Germany to eff off regarding tanks. Even more pressure on Germany to deliver, I guess.

Not just the Poles at this point in time I suspect. If the Germans refuse to give permission to send Leopards, they'll likely be ignored and the tanks sent anyway to Ukraine with no future German tank purchases to replace the ones sent. The South Koreans and the Americans will take over the German market share.

Korea does seem to be the big winner out of this whole thing. Very low key making big money selling armaments.

I kinda miss her.

[The Larch]

On a different note, I saw this piece of news and don't know exactly what's the point of it. Has to be a propaganda thing, I can't think that Russian leadership consider a direct hit on Moscow a realistic possibility.

Defensive missile systems erected on Moscow rooftops
Kremlin appears to prepare for strikes on Russian capital by installing interception systems

Missile systems designed to intercept aircraft and incoming missiles appear to have been deployed on top of several defence and administrative buildings in downtown Moscow, signalling that the Kremlin is preparing for a potential, if unlikely, attack being directed on the Russian capital.

Photographs published on social media on Thursday showed a Pantsir missile system had been installed on the roof of an eight-story building used by the Russian defence ministry along the Moskva River.

Another video showed the air defence system being lifted on to the roof of an education building in Moscow's Taganka district, 1.5 miles south-east of the Kremlin.

The short-to-medium-range systems are used to defend against aircraft, helicopters, and cruise missiles. The Russian military has also said they could be used against smaller targets, such as military and commercial drones, which have become ubiquitous on the battlefield since Vladimir Putin launched his wide-scale invasion in February.

Images of the missile systems in Moscow emerged a day before western defence officials were set to meet at Ramstein airbase in Germany to agree on a new military aid package to Ukraine that could include the provision of heavy tanks.

The US has already pledged nearly $2bn in further military aid to Ukraine, including a Patriot air sefence system meant to protect Ukrainian cities from Russian missiles.

But Russian officials have issued warnings ahead of the meeting, attempting to dissuade Nato countries from providing more advanced weapons by claiming that these could potentially spark a nuclear conflict.

"The defeat of a nuclear power in a conventional war can provoke the beginning of a nuclear war," wrote Dmitry Medvedev, the former president, who has become a leading hawk as deputy chairman of Russia's security council.

Russian military officials did not immediately confirm the installation of the missile systems. However, several Russian media outlets have also reported on the deployment of long-range S-400 missile systems in Moscow in recent weeks. The S-400 and Pantsir-S1 systems are often used in tandem.

The missile systems have appeared in the wake of a Russian bombing campaign that has used missiles and drones to target Ukrainian cities and infrastructure, leading to scores of deaths across the country. A Russian X-22 anti-ship ballistic missile hit an apartment block in the city of Dnipro last week, killing 45.

Pro-Kremlin bloggers on Thursday said that the appearance of the missile systems in Moscow showed that the Russian military leadership was concerned now about attacks on their own cities.

"It means that [the leadership] perfectly understand all the risks and understand that strikes against Moscow and the regions are just a question of time," wrote Alexander Kots, a prominent Russian journalist who supports the Russian war in Ukraine. "It's good to begin planning in advance instead of after the first strikes."

The appearance of the defensive missile systems highlights Russia's lack of success in the war. Mysterious explosions have taken place at military sites in Crimea, and at several airbases used by Russian strategic bombers last month deep inside Russian territory. Ukrainian officials have also said they have begun testing long-range drones that can travel up to 1,000 km (621 miles), potentially putting Moscow in striking distance.

"Russia has long given a very high priority to maintaining advanced ground-based air defences, but it is increasingly clear that it is struggling to counter air threats deep inside Russia," the UK defence ministry wrote last year, a day after the explosions at Russia's Engels airbase.

[Sheilbh]

I think maybe it's what Tamas posted about. They're going for formal declaration of war and national mobilisation.

Special Military Operation no more?

[Admiral Yi]

It will then be illegal to say "special military operation."

[Grey Fox]

As an aside to the main issue of Germany, why'd the US make such a complicated tank?

Fast tank. Ease of logistics for the US Military between Planes/Helicopters and the tanks.

Latest versions have a diesel APU for idling power.

[mongers]

As an aside to the main issue of Germany, why'd the US make such a complicated tank?

Fast tank. Ease of logistics for the US Military between Planes/Helicopters and the tanks.

Latest versions have a diesel APU for idling power.

IIRC it's always had a multi-fuel engine, just that as you point out the US has chosen to use aviation fuel (is it JP4 or JP6).

I think those sent to Ukraine could use available fuels there, though that doesn't eliminate the thirsty litres/mile figure.

[grumbler]

Until it runs out of jet fuel  on the field . But I guess americas military-industrial complex knows more then I do

If it runs out of jet fuel, the crew will just fill the tank with diesel fuel or gasoline.  Or peanut oil.  Gas turbines, even more so than diesel engines, are not picky.

[HVC]

Until it runs out of jet fuel  on the field . But I guess americas military-industrial complex knows more then I do

If it runs out of jet fuel, the crew will just fill the tank with diesel fuel or gasoline.  Or peanut oil.  Gas turbines, even more so than diesel engines, are not picky.

I had read the quote to mean it only took jet fuel which added to the logistical complexity. My bad. 

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Until it runs out of jet fuel  on the field . But I guess americas military-industrial complex knows more then I do

If it runs out of jet fuel, the crew will just fill the tank with diesel fuel or gasoline.  Or peanut oil.  Gas turbines, even more so than diesel engines, are not picky.

Sunflower oil.... pressed from flowers grown on Russian corpses
How's  that for payback

[Threviel]

I watched a very recent Moran video and according to him the turbine nowadays isn't very much more inefficient fuel-wise.

I understand that there's a lot of pressure over Leopards, but FFS, the US has thousands of tanks in storage, they could give away a number equaling all the Leopards in the world and would barely notice. If the war goes on for years they also need to send tanks.

[Legbiter]

Now the Dutch are talking about supplying F-16's to Ukraine. 

[Syt]

[garbon]

Who?