[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[HVC]

They could be addressing labour shortages across Canada, or yoy know, trying to persecute French speakers. Both are equal possibilities

They are immigrants, you know, not slaves?

They need housing, services (hospitals, doctors, nurses, schools, restaurants, etc), they consume as much as they bring, so they are only a temporary solution to a worker's shortage.  Then they age, they retire, they need elderly care just like the rest of us.

Oh sure, there are other concerns, but wiping out the French language isn't the goal

Speaking of building houses, the construction workers numbers are in a bit of trouble. A lot of them are aging out soon. No one want their little Francois or Johnny to go into construction so it's heavily reliant on immigration. How's it look in Quebec?

[viper37]

Our constitution is based on parliamentary supremacy.

Ok.  So in your model, where did the parliamentary supremacy come from?  Is it that the people gave all legislative power to parliament, or did the Crown grant parliamentary supremacy, or some other model?

Allright.
Back to 1837.
First Patriot Rebellion.  Tried to declared Lower Canada's independance from the Crown.  Total failure.

1838.  Second Patriot Rebellion.  Here we go again, but this time, some more Anglos join up the fight.  Tried to declare all of of Canadas, Upper and Lower (Ontario and Quebec) independence.  Ontariances shat in their pants after the first volley. (French) Canadians fight a littler longer, but as usual, planification wasn't our ancestors strongest point, so totally outgunned, outmanned and outmatched some survivors retreated to a church where they were burnt alive.
1839 The UK sends their special emissary to investigate what the hell is wrong with their colony.  Frenchis taking arms against the Crown is one thing, but English speakers too??  Enters Lord Durham and his report.  (French) Canadians are an inferior species without history and culture and for their own good must be assimilated to the superior English culture. To do so, massive English immigration is to be promoted in Canada and the Act of
Union merging the two colonies in 1840, thereby instituting what would become Canada's two founding principles: responsible governement (1848) and the attempted assimilation of French Canadians.
French Canadians fucked like rabbits, having families of 10-12 children, so where not that easy to assimilate.
1867.  Canada is founded to be not so quite an independant nation, more like a union of colonies.  Instead of fighting tyranny, we worship it.   Assimilation of French Canadians is still the goal, but this being a British colony, things must never be spelled out, even the must basic things and everything must rely on tradition.  The British parliament has a veto power over all of the Canadian laws.  The Canadian parliament has a veto power over all provincial laws.  The Federal government and the provinces have a well defined list of powers that are each exclusive, but the Feds keep the power to legislate over anything not specifically list in the Constitution.
1867-1982.  Long list of Federal laws designed to assimilate of piss off French Canadians to insure English dominance over the country.
1944.  René Lévesque joins the US army as a war correspondant.
1976.  René Lévesque and his Parti Québécois win their first elections promising a referendum in their second mandate so that Quebecers can have their own manifest destiny.
1980.  Said referendum happens, but Quebecers reject independence and prefer submission 60% to 40% by believing the false promises of Trudeau the elder that the Canadian Constitution would be changed for the better.
1982.  Constitutional reforms began in 1981.  Without any surprise whatsover, Quebec was betrayed by Jean Chrétien and Pierre-Eliiot Trudeau, in a move designed to isolate Québec and reduce the power of the French speaking minority in the country by making sure Québec couldn't defend the French outside its province without sacrificing its own protected status.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriation#The_Kitchen_Accord
So during the night, Chrétien went from Premier to Premier with two proposals:
1) If you sign, we will agree to a notwithstanding clause that would give you the right to substract your political decisions to the application of the new charter for some years.
2) If you don't sign, we'll tell Canadians on television you sided with filthy seperatists.

So, one by one, all the Premiers agreed to betray Quebec and sign the document.  Roy Romanow was back in Saskatchewan.  They managed to reach him.  René Lévesque was in Gatineau, 15 minutes away, but their excuse was "we couldn't reach him".  To this day, staunch federalist still believe this version of event.  They manage to reach a guy 2000km away in the middle of the night, but 15 min away, all the phone lines and all the bridges were down for the night, apparently.

And that is how we got that clause, to slightly limit to over reach of Federal power, that can still invalidate any provincial law and can still legislate to spend federal funds in any typical provincial field it so desire, to create its own stupid, inneficient program to buy votes.

Needless to say, the clause was never intended to be used a work relationship tool.

I do not know if the current strike in Ontario is illegal or not as per their labour laws, but even if it is, the government has other tools at its disposal to force a return to work.

I may be right wing a pro-provincial autonomy, but I really dislike how Ford is using the clause for this.  I understand that offering as much as the union may demand is unreasonable in the current context, but I don't feel like Ford's government has made any serious effort to negotiate either.  There might have been many more ways to compromise before arriving there. <sigh>.

Still not sure it's wise for the House of Commons to put its nose in there though. 

Now, if Trudeau has realized that his daddy's constitution is far from perfect, that is another matter...   Quebec is more willing to sit at a table and negotiate one on one for a couple of changes there.  Other provinces seemed pretty happy back in '82, so they'll keep aside

[viper37]

They could be addressing labour shortages across Canada, or yoy know, trying to persecute French speakers. Both are equal possibilities

They are immigrants, you know, not slaves?

They need housing, services (hospitals, doctors, nurses, schools, restaurants, etc), they consume as much as they bring, so they are only a temporary solution to a worker's shortage.  Then they age, they retire, they need elderly care just like the rest of us.

Oh sure, there are other concerns, but wiping out the French language isn't the goal

"A plan by which it is proposed to ensure the tranquil government of Lower Canada, must include in itself the means of putting an end to the agitation of national disputes in the legislature, by settling, at once and for ever, the national character of the Province. I entertain no doubts as to the national character which must be given to Lower Canada; it must be that of the British Empire; that of the majority of the population of British America; that of the great race which must, in the lapse of no long period of time, be predominant over the whole North American Continent. Without effecting the change so rapidly or so roughly as to shock the feelings and trample on the welfare of the existing generation, it must henceforth be the first and steady purpose of the British Government to establish an English population, with English laws and language, in this Province, and to trust its government to none but a decidedly English Legislature."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durham_Report#Important_passages

Speaking of building houses, the construction workers numbers are in a bit of trouble. A lot of them are aging out soon. No one want their little Francois or Johnny to go into construction so it's heavily reliant on immigration. How's it look in Quebec? 

Construction in Quebec is heavily regulated. Only two sectors are not regulated: single house renovations and small (less than 2 employees + owner) agricultural businesses.  Otherwise, unionization is mandatory and there are tons of regulations to be followed on who can do what and what kind of tools one can carry.

I am no longer in the sector, but the problem remains the same as when I came in 25 years ago: back then, we talked about an aging workers population, how the average workers age was 40, 45yo for some specific jobs and how this should be addressed.

Since nothing was done in 25 years and the same stupid rules were in place (1 apprentice to 1 mentor for the first, then 1 apprentice to 6 mentors for the second and so forth), lots of younger people were discouraged for not finding work in their field of study and sought employment outside of the industry.

And if you're thinking "great, we'll just ask Cubans/Lebaneses to fill in the jobs", just forget it.  This whole scheme of competence cards if fully retarded and is, in practice, 100% controlled by the most powerful union, the FTQ.  It's also the most racist and most mysoginistic union in the province.  No matter the amount of complaints and rulings against them, nothing has changed.  Women and immigrants (even in other blue collar jobs, but represented by the same union) are still harassed and they either suck it up or leave.  Don't count on the employer to defend them, we'll be the ones harassed to the fullest extent of the law and beyond after that.  They control the Commission de la Construction du Québec verficiation's services.  If you have a problem with the FTQ, you have a problem with the CCQ.  You have endless paperwork to submit, fines that you have to defend against either unjustified or for minor infractions subject to very by the boook interpretation, constant harassment of your employees over the phone to pressure them to "report malpractice or else they will lose their unemployment come winter", everything to make you regret that you ever crossed path with these guys. 

Portugueses and Italians seems to have faired well, mostly by
starting their own businesses and hiring their own family members to begin, then others of their community.  My dad had a lot of good to say about Portuguese concrete workers he met in the north, and some Italian painters (construction types, not Michaelangelo types ).  But these guys are from Montreal and don't really work around here.

Don't really know about the new generation.  Got tired of that FTQ bullshit and their gorillas.

[crazy canuck]

Viper, the only thing you are missing is the statement "I am certain" 

[viper37]

Viper, the only thing you are missing is the statement "I am certain" 

Well, a strong Federal government is a necessity to protect minorities in Canada.  That they happen to be all English speaking and living in Quebec is a pure coincidence.

When was the last time the Feds defended tooth and nails the rights of the French minorities outside of Quebec?

Libs wants more vote, immigrants will give them these votes.

What did the commissionner to official language say about the declining of French language all accross the country last August?  What was the main factor of the decline, according to him?

[Jacob]

Looks like the Ford government is repealing Bill 28 (which uses the notwithstanding clause to outlaw the CUPE strike). In response, CUPE is ending their walkout.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/cupe-strike-labour-board-ruling-expected-1.6642824

[Barrister]

Looks like the Ford government is repealing Bill 28 (which uses the notwithstanding clause to outlaw the CUPE strike). In response, CUPE is ending their walkout.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/cupe-strike-labour-board-ruling-expected-1.6642824

I do think that use of the Notwithstanding clause should be more common, but I really didn't think Ford had set out much of a basis for doing so in this case.

[Jacob]

I do think that use of the Notwithstanding clause should be more common...

This isn't a position I've come across before. Why do you think that?

[Barrister]

I do think that use of the Notwithstanding clause should be more common...

This isn't a position I've come across before. Why do you think that?

Because there are a lot of really shitty court decisions.

Take an area I am comfortable with: criminal law.  The courts have been striking down mandatory minimum sentences right and left, seemingly insisting on giving judges (aka themselves) untrammeled discretion in sentencing.

I think Parliament would be well justified to re-impose mandatory minimums, or impose a formalized sentencing grid, through the use of the notwithstanding clause.

[Barrister]

Also, consider that Ford's first use of s. 35 was later vindicated by the courts.

Ford wanted to reduce the size of Toronto city council.  Lower courts said no, this violates the Charter.  At this point the election is looming, so Ford invokes s. 35 to use the smaller city council size in the election.

When the matter subsequently goes to higher courts (I can't remember if ONCA or SCC) the court said that reducing the size of city council did not violate the Charter, and thus invoking s. 35 was moot.  But if the government had waited for the courts the election would already have happened.

[Jacob]

I see. Thank you

[Barrister]

So in the only election that mattered anywhere in the world yesterday, Premiere Danielle Smith was elected into the Legislature in her by-election last night.

Results though are kind of mixed.  She ran in the riding of Brooks-Medicine Hat, a mixed rural/small city urban riding.  In 2019 the UCP candidate won with 60% of the vote, whereas Smith won with 54%.  The NDP candidate received 27% of the vote, while the leader of the Alberta Party won 16%.

So UCP support was down, NDP support was up, in what was supposed to be an ultra-safe riding for Smith.

[Jacob]

Still super safe, doubling the vote of what the NDP candidate got. But still if the percentage swing - which (as you well know) was significant and negative - holds across Alberta then that indicates the potential for humiliating loss.

[Barrister]

Still super safe, doubling the vote of what the NDP candidate got. But still if the percentage swing - which (as you well know) was significant and negative - holds across Alberta then that indicates the potential for humiliating loss.

The Alberta Party vote is interesting, because it's really a nothing party at this point.  It started out as a far-right party, but then a decade ago it shifted and tried to become a centrist party (since the Alberta Liberals are completely dead), but it's never really taken off.

So the 16% comes across more as a kind of protest vote, unhappy with either party.

I would say that the results of next year's election is not a foregone conclusion, but Smith needs to reach out to centrist voters ASAP.  Alberta on whole is still a centre-right province.  NDP won in 2019 when the right was divided.  UCP needs to keep its base together to win - which was formed of both PC and Wildrose voters.  If Smith lets PC voters slip away, either to the NDP or Alberta Party, or just sitting home, they're going to lose.

[PRC]

Still super safe, doubling the vote of what the NDP candidate got. But still if the percentage swing - which (as you well know) was significant and negative - holds across Alberta then that indicates the potential for humiliating loss.

The Alberta Party vote is interesting, because it's really a nothing party at this point.  It started out as a far-right party, but then a decade ago it shifted and tried to become a centrist party (since the Alberta Liberals are completely dead), but it's never really taken off.

So the 16% comes across more as a kind of protest vote, unhappy with either party.

I would say that the results of next year's election is not a foregone conclusion, but Smith needs to reach out to centrist voters ASAP.  Alberta on whole is still a centre-right province.  NDP won in 2019 when the right was divided.  UCP needs to keep its base together to win - which was formed of both PC and Wildrose voters.  If Smith lets PC voters slip away, either to the NDP or Alberta Party, or just sitting home, they're going to lose.

I don't know that too much can be read into the Alberta Party vote in that by-election as Barry Morashita is the former major of Brooks.  People in that riding know him and were probably more comfortable voting for him there than would play out with other candidates Province wide.