[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Sheilbh]

If Xi's outburst is because Trudeau spoke about Canadian findings that Chinese have interfered in Canadian politics, then Xi can triple fuck off.

Yeah from what I've seen reported is that it was about Trudeau's "serious concerns" over China's aggressive "inteference activities".

But the reasoning basically seems to be that's what the Canadian government was briefing that wasn't in either official read-out rather than any inside knowledge of what Xi meant.

And on that semi-relatedly MI5 chief gave his annual report on security risks earlier in the week and flagged increased Chinese interference. Most as you'd expect - trying to compromise or ally with MPs across the spectrum, too good to be true offers for academics and civil society groups. But I was struck that he said there were even United Front Work Department fronts targeting councillors who they've identified as potential future MPs/stars - trying to build a relationship and make people feel a sense of obligation at the start of their career.

[Jacob]

So in summary:

Canada (Trudeau): "It looks like China is trying to fuck around with our elections. We're concerned."

China (Xi): "How naive that you would say that in PUBLIC!!!! There may be CONSEQUENCES!!!!"

Is that right?

If so - yeah, that rates a big "fuck off" from me.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah - FWIW I saw an Australian think tanker comment on that video that they'd had similar issues in Australia and had thought (despite Albanese gesturing to a softer tone on China) that Australian-Chinese relations were the worst, but it might actually be Canadian-Chinese.

[Jacob]

Yeah - FWIW I saw an Australian think tanker comment on that video that they'd had similar issues in Australia and had thought (despite Albanese gesturing to a softer tone on China) that Australian-Chinese relations were the worst, but it might actually be Canadian-Chinese.

So the comical thing about China is they like to play hardball with us "lesser" nations... but they do it in cycles. So they shit on Canada and cut imports from us. Then a little while later they shit on Australia and cut imports from there... while quietly opening the gates for Canadian imports to make up for the ones they're no longer getting from China... and so on the cycle goes.

The bottom line is that relying on China is foolish unless 1) you're willing to sell out your country to keep in their good graces, or 2) they absolutely need you.

Fuck the CCP.

[viper37]

Whether or not you're tired of it doesn't make it any less true.

It's true.  But we don't get subsidized energy from the Feds, unlike, say, Ontario.

[HVC]

Whether or not you're tired of it doesn't make it any less true.

It's true.  But we don't get subsidized energy from the Feds, unlike, say, Ontario.

No, you just get below market rate electricity, totally different

[HVC]

As for Xi, Trudeau should wear a Winnie the Pooh sweater. Trade humiliation for humiliation.

Although, I don't see how the interaction humiliated Trudeau, but that's what articles are saying.

[Jacob]

As for Xi, Trudeau should wear a Winnie the Pooh sweater. Trade humiliation for humiliation.

Although, I don't see how the interaction humiliated Trudeau, but that's what articles are saying.

I think that's what the Post Media articles are saying. But yeah, I don't see any humiliation there.

It would be kind of funny, actually, if Xi was a bit of upset and wanted to let Trudeau know off the record and then it got blown all up like this.

Apparently Chinese gov't channels are now saying that Xi wasn't criticizing Trudeau at all.... Also, right now on Chinese social media if you search for Trudeau you don't see anything mentioning him and Xi together in the last few days.

[Grey Fox]

I saw Trudeau saying, in French, couple hours after the situation surfaced that simply China's & Canada's system are extremely different and that Xi is not use like him to get challenged or public questions from journalists and other MPs.

I think that sums it up pretty good. Xi controls everything, Trudeau does not.

[Barrister]

Yeah - FWIW I saw an Australian think tanker comment on that video that they'd had similar issues in Australia and had thought (despite Albanese gesturing to a softer tone on China) that Australian-Chinese relations were the worst, but it might actually be Canadian-Chinese.

So the comical thing about China is they like to play hardball with us "lesser" nations... but they do it in cycles. So they shit on Canada and cut imports from us. Then a little while later they shit on Australia and cut imports from there... while quietly opening the gates for Canadian imports to make up for the ones they're no longer getting from China... and so on the cycle goes.

The bottom line is that relying on China is foolish unless 1) you're willing to sell out your country to keep in their good graces, or 2) they absolutely need you.

Fuck the CCP.

It's almost a good thing that Xi is being so brazen in his attempts to force middle powers like Canada and Australia to comply with their demands.

China and the CCP has been attempting to influence both countries for years and decades through members of the Chinese diaspora - donate to friendly candidates, spy on unfriendly candidates, through institutions like Confucius.  And we've been letting them do it for years.

But now as it's become so blatant we're finally making at least some attempts to put a stop to it.

[Sheilbh]

It is a thing that seems to keep happening where middle powers basically start saying "we don't want to be coerced into picking sides, going to work with the US and China etc" and then very shortly afterwards Chinese conduct either in that country or in China is so egregious that they end up siding quite strongly with the US.

I totally agree that at this point if you're not moving rapidly to decrease dependencies on China then you only have yourself to blame.

In the UK I was a little worried that Sunak would take the Treasury line which is more pro-China because all they see is a market, but he's actually forcing the reversal of a takeover of a British chip manufacturer by a Chinese company - which I think is a good move. Starmer is talking about the need to be a bit more neutral and dialogue-based with China - but I fully expect, as with Albanese in Australia, that won't survive contact with dealing with the Chinese state.

[Jacob]

It's almost a good thing that Xi is being so brazen in his attempts to force middle powers like Canada and Australia to comply with their demands.

China and the CCP has been attempting to influence both countries for years and decades through members of the Chinese diaspora - donate to friendly candidates, spy on unfriendly candidates, through institutions like Confucius.  And we've been letting them do it for years.

But now as it's become so blatant we're finally making at least some attempts to put a stop to it.

Yeah, the mask has fallen off rather unequivocally. CdM was right all along.

[Barrister]

So in the video clip of the Trudeau-Xi incident, apparently Xi's translator didn't translate everything.

Xi also said "we should have conversations in a respectful way, otherwise, the result can't be predicted."

Which is about as explicit a threat as you can get in international diplomacy.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/china-justin-trudeau-xi-1.6653939

[viper37]

Whether or not you're tired of it doesn't make it any less true.

It's true.  But we don't get subsidized energy from the Feds, unlike, say, Ontario.

No, you just get below market rate electricity, totally different

Actually, no.  It was financed by the province, and it is delivered and sold above cost to us.

[HVC]

Whether or not you're tired of it doesn't make it any less true.

It's true.  But we don't get subsidized energy from the Feds, unlike, say, Ontario.

No, you just get below market rate electricity, totally different

Actually, no.  It was financed by the province, and it is delivered and sold above cost to us.

I said below market, not below cost . Between 2005 and 2010 Quebec lost 28.6 billion in revenue by selling domestic energy below cost. 14.3 billion of this was reimbursed to Quebec through equalization payments. That's 34% of quebecs total equalization payments receive for that period. So energy was half subsidized by the province and half the feds.  Seems like a pretty big subsidy to me.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/peter-holle-artificially-cheap-hydro-power-your-equalization-dollars-at-work