Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Admiral Yi]

Very strange survey results from The Economist.  US 65+ year olds support Ukraine 90/10.  US 18-28 y.o.s are around 50%, 40% don't know/don't care.

Strange given that older voters skew heavily Republican.  And that 18-28s are being exposed to all the pro Ukrainian social media.

[HisMajestyBOB]

Tucker Carlson's latest on the war

The war in Ukraine is designed to cause regime change in Moscow. They want to topple the Russian government. That would be payback for the 2016 election. So, this is the logical, maybe the inevitable end stage of Russiagate . . . We don't arm Ukraine so we can help the Ukrainians. They're merely unfortunate pawns in all of this. We arm Ukraine so that we can punish Russia. Why? For stealing Hillary Clinton's coronation. 

If only we had taken Adam Schiff seriously, as he said it again, and again, and again. But now we can't help but take Adam Schiff seriously because he's one of the prime movers of this war. Adam Schiff spent this weekend in Eastern Europe checking on the progress of the war he has done so much to bring about.

At what point does Murdoch and Fox as an institution face real questions about their enthusiastic backing of this asinine and corrosive Putinist war propaganda?

When President Trump makes OAN the only allowed news network?

[Josquius]

A nice theory.... With the basic flaw that Russia started the war. How do they figure that out?

[crazy canuck]

A nice theory.... With the basic flaw that Russia started the war. How do they figure that out?

Where did you hear that propaganda?  You definitely do not get your news from an approved Fox affiliate.

[FunkMonk]

Hmm, wonder what would happen if they sanction tucker?

It's really mind-blogging.  The invasion of Ukraine has nothing to do with Putin, with his cronies, with Russia at all.  Nothing to do with Russian imperial history or cultural assumptions, nothing do with Russia's alleged security paranoia.  Nothing to do with Ukraine and the Ukrainians, nothing to do with Zelensky or the division among Ukrainian and Russian speakers, with Maidan and its aftermaths, with Donetsk and Luhansk.  Pace Mearshimer, nothing to do with NATO or the history of western dealings with Russia after the Cold War.

No it turns out the real cause of the war is that "They" made it happen.  "They" being a Jewish Congressman from California wanting payback because Clinton lost the 16 election.

How can a self-described "news" organization broadcast such garbage?

When you have bought into a fact-free narrative, you lose the ability to care whether what you are broadcasting is garbage or not. All you care about is views and cash from sponsors.

The real question then becomes, not the failure to have any journalistic ethics, but the eternal one of why this garbage attracts viewers - or who is providing the sponsorship. Which is more worrisome - that this kind of thing has a genuine base of support in the US, or that it is bought and paid for by the Kremlin? Or maybe it is both?

I tend to view the answer to this with the Logan Roy theory of Fox News:

"Stop broadcasting this garbage? Why the fuck would I do that? This garbage gives me complete control over an entire political party and overwhelming influence over the American electorate. I have the ear of Presidents and CEOs. I can dial it up to 11 or bring it down to 8 at my fucking whim. So you better give me something in return if you want me to switch it off. Otherwise, fuck off."

[Jacob]

Yeah, I think that's it.

[FunkMonk]

Very strange survey results from The Economist.  US 65+ year olds support Ukraine 90/10.  US 18-28 y.o.s are around 50%, 40% don't know/don't care.

Strange given that older voters skew heavily Republican.  And that 18-28s are being exposed to all the pro Ukrainian social media.

Old people still internalize "Russia bad" while youngins are too busy trying to survive the present hellscape American nightmare to care that much about a war in a far off land.

[Barrister]

I tend to view the answer to this with the Logan Roy theory of Fox News:

"Stop broadcasting this garbage? Why the fuck would I do that? This garbage gives me complete control over an entire political party and overwhelming influence over the American electorate. I have the ear of Presidents and CEOs. I can dial it up to 11 or bring it down to 8 at my fucking whim. So you better give me something in return if you want me to switch it off. Otherwise, fuck off."

But is that even it?  It's not like Fox News influence over the GOP is a new thing.

Tucker Carlson's timeslot is the old Bill O'Reilly slot, who had equally impressive ratings without the pretty explicit white nationalism / Putin apologia (whatever the faults he had as a serial sexual harasser).

[Sheilbh]

Very strange survey results from The Economist.  US 65+ year olds support Ukraine 90/10.  US 18-28 y.o.s are around 50%, 40% don't know/don't care.

Strange given that older voters skew heavily Republican.  And that 18-28s are being exposed to all the pro Ukrainian social media.

I saw that - very odd. And slightly different from UK results where there's basically no difference by age groups. Odd.

[The Minsky Moment]

Seems like the same.  10% pro Russia in each demo.  The only difference is that 40% of the kids are completely clueless.  Not really that surprising.

[Sheilbh]

Seems like the same.  10% pro Russia in each demo.  The only difference is that 40% of the kids are completely clueless.  Not really that surprising.

Alternately 40% of the kids are willing to admit they're clueless.

Like the thing in polling where women are far more likely to say "don't know", while men will have an opinion

[Berkut]

I tend to view the answer to this with the Logan Roy theory of Fox News:

"Stop broadcasting this garbage? Why the fuck would I do that? This garbage gives me complete control over an entire political party and overwhelming influence over the American electorate. I have the ear of Presidents and CEOs. I can dial it up to 11 or bring it down to 8 at my fucking whim. So you better give me something in return if you want me to switch it off. Otherwise, fuck off."

But is that even it?  It's not like Fox News influence over the GOP is a new thing.

Tucker Carlson's timeslot is the old Bill O'Reilly slot, who had equally impressive ratings without the pretty explicit white nationalism / Putin apologia (whatever the faults he had as a serial sexual harasser).

What about the faults he had as a Tea Party bigoted asshole?

Carlson is not different in kind from O'Reilly, he just comes after O'Reilly where the tolerance for more explicit racism and bigotry is greater, but it is greater BECAUSE O'Reilly laid the groundwork for it.

Whoever comes after Carlson will be even worse, but again, won't be any different in kind.

Carlson is the outcome of Limbaugh and O'Reilly. That is what you get.

[Josquius]

Don't know/don't care for kids isn't so bad.  Though warrants drilling into.
Are these people who just don't follow any politics or from the 'environment is all that matters' school or what.

[Zoupa]

I think we're getting sidetracked. Let's get back to the real issues, like trans athletes and why wokeism is so so so very important.

[Tamas]

I think we're getting sidetracked. Let's get back to the real issues, like trans athletes and why wokeism is so so so very important.

Wrong thread mate.