If only we could deprt Joe the Plumber back to Ohio :(
QuoteTea Party protest movement heats up in Lansing
BY DAWSON BELL • FREE PRESS LANSING BUREAU • April 15, 2009
LANSING – The grounds of the state Capitol were packed with protesters today, as several thousand Michiganders turned out for one of the national Tea Party demonstrations against excess taxation, government regulation and assorted other maladies.
An estimated 3,000 to 4,000 people showed up for the midday event, one of dozens across the state and hundreds nationally. The Lansing event was headlined by Joe Wurzelbacher, the Ohio native made famous duing campaign 2008 as "Joe the Plumber" after he confronted then-candidate Barack Obama about raising taxes.
Wurzelbacher's message, like that of other speakers and most of the throng on the lawn, was generally anti-Obama and against the current direction of the federal government. But the crowd – bearing one of the most impressive collection of homemade signs ever assembled at the Capitol -- targeted a whole range of grievances, including Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm, the Federal Reserve and gun control.
Sharon Heide, 52, a nurse from Allen Park who took the day off from work to attend the rally at the Capitol, brought one that read: "Big Government Regulation Got Us Into This Mess, More of the Same Won't Bail Us Out."
Heide said government has gotten too big, and individual freedoms too small.
"Government is to protect us in war," she said. "Let's get back to the Constitution. We're supposed to be individuals, that's what made this country great. They're trying to control everything we do."
Scott Hagerstrom of Americans for Prosperity, one of the organizers of the Lansing protest, said the Tea Parties are not aimed at any single government policy, but against a rapid escalation of government intrusion into private lives and economic activity. The aim is to "get people involved," he said.
In the 90's I lived by Oakland County's major post office in Royal Oak, Michigan. On April 15 the city would block streets in order to funnel last minute tax filers to the post office. Every year a number of malcontents would show up with home made signs protesting the government. In those days the Michigan Militia would show up basking in their then new found glory brought on by the Oklahoma City Bombing. They wore hunter camouflage and sported ZZ-Top beards. This article reminded me of that.
So what's wrong with people protesting government expansion & wasteful spending? :huh:
Quote from: Savonarola on April 15, 2009, 02:30:33 PM
If only we could deprt Joe the Plumber back to Ohio :(
Oh no, you keep him.
Quote from: derspiess on April 15, 2009, 02:32:05 PM
So what's wrong with people protesting government expansion & wasteful spending? :huh:
It's a waste of time. Protests cannot succeed without giant puppets.
They'd get a better turnout if they called it a "teabagging party".
Quote from: Savonarola on April 15, 2009, 02:35:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 15, 2009, 02:32:05 PM
So what's wrong with people protesting government expansion & wasteful spending? :huh:
It's a waste of time. Protests cannot succeed without giant puppets.
Well, true. Conservatives & Libertarians generally suck at protesting, because as the more productive members of society, they're usually too busy working. Having fringe loonies (a la Michigan Militia) pitch in to fill the void doesn't help things.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30227452/
Anti-tax 'tea parties' being held across U.S.
Thousands of protesters, some dressed like Revolutionary War soldiers and most waving signs with anti-tax slogans, gathered around the nation Wednesday for a series of rallies modeled after the original Boston Tea Party.
They chose the income tax filing deadline to express their displeasure with government spending since President Barack Obama took office.
Don't they understand that taxes are for their own good?
'Taxation with Representation is Really Annoying!'
Just doesn't inspire as much as the old slogan.
I am glad to finally see people protesting government debt. I mean fuck we have deficit spending for what...40 years?
Quote from: KRonn on April 15, 2009, 02:48:41 PM
They chose the income tax filing deadline to express their displeasure with government spending since President Barack Obama took office.
Huh? Obama has pretty much done the exact same thing as his predecessors. What has changed?
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 02:55:59 PM
Quote from: KRonn on April 15, 2009, 02:48:41 PM
They chose the income tax filing deadline to express their displeasure with government spending since President Barack Obama took office.
Huh? Obama has pretty much done the exact same thing as his predecessors. What has changed?
:bleeding:
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 02:55:59 PM
Quote from: KRonn on April 15, 2009, 02:48:41 PM
They chose the income tax filing deadline to express their displeasure with government spending since President Barack Obama took office.
Huh? Obama has pretty much done the exact same thing as his predecessors. What has changed?
1. He's a demoncrat
2. He's a secret muslim
3. He said the US isn't a Christian nation
4. He's an evilutionist
5. He's a darkie
6. He stole their jerbs
I think that about covers it, but I'm open to things I've missed. The "gubmint is evil" crowd is just doing what they always do, but the new members of the movement...
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 02:55:59 PM
Quote from: KRonn on April 15, 2009, 02:48:41 PM
They chose the income tax filing deadline to express their displeasure with government spending since President Barack Obama took office.
Huh? Obama has pretty much done the exact same thing as his predecessors. What has changed?
He restored the tax levels to Clinton years, and is continuing the Republican policy of deficit spending; but instead of it being for a disastrous, disastrous war, it's for useless things, like ending the Recession.
Summed up pretty well here:
QuoteTea Partiers are hoping that if they mimic the energy of anti-war protests and the savvy of Obama's new media operation, that at some point an actual movement will spawn. Getting together a bunch of pissed off middle-aged white people with no clue about how the tax system works in public areas will generate a coherent agenda designed to combat the stimulus; if it gets enough media coverage, they will DOMINATE THE AGENDA.
It's like taping a horn to a horse and waiting for it to alight on a magic cloud of stardust and pixies.
http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/unicorn_nutson_your_face/#When:18:31:00Z
Quote from: Malthus on April 15, 2009, 02:39:53 PM
They'd get a better turnout if they called it a "teabagging party".
Some news outlets are reporting it that way. ^_^
The radio this morning told me that I could teabag Pelosi!
http://teaparty.gop.com/Default.aspx
Also Anderson Cooper, always wise:
"It's hard to talk when you're tea-bagging."
Quote from: The Brain on April 15, 2009, 02:51:20 PM
Don't they understand that taxes are for their own good?
No, some people are so short sighted they don't see the benefit of shooting Iraqis. :(
Well I hope Janet Napolitano is watching all the tea parties as close as possible. Lots of dangerous right-wingers there.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/14/federal-agency-warns-of-radicals-on-right/
Quote from: garbon on April 15, 2009, 03:12:29 PM
http://teaparty.gop.com/Default.aspx
The teaparty is a GOP creature? :huh: What?
The party most infamous for massive deficits is forming a party to combat deficits? Well next time they get in power we will see...
If future results are indicated by past performance color me perplexed. I thought they were the dudes who assumed the certainty of continous economic growth made deficits ok and our deficits were not actually bad at all compared to other countries if you go by things like percentage of the total economy.
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 03:16:46 PM
The teaparty is a GOP creature? :huh: What?
The news report I heard said libertarians were all pissy at the Republican party for that move.
QuoteTea Partiers are hoping that if they mimic the energy of anti-war protests and the savvy of Obama's new media operation, that at some point an actual movement will spawn. Getting together a bunch of pissed off middle-aged white people with no clue about how the tax system works in public areas will generate a coherent agenda designed to combat the stimulus; if it gets enough media coverage, they will DOMINATE THE AGENDA.
It's like taping a horn to a horse and waiting for it to alight on a magic cloud of stardust and pixies.
And then the Republicans will get back in power...and spend exactly the same amount that Obama is spending...only they will cut taxes while doing it.
Quote from: garbon on April 15, 2009, 03:17:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 03:16:46 PM
The teaparty is a GOP creature? :huh: What?
The news report I heard said libertarians were all pissy at the Republican party for that move.
Anything that pisses off libertariantards makes me happy.
Quote from: derspiess on April 15, 2009, 03:16:29 PM
Well I hope Janet Napolitano is watching all the tea parties as close as possible. Lots of dangerous right-wingers there.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/14/federal-agency-warns-of-radicals-on-right/
I don't get your point. Was Oklahoma City done by a leftist?
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 15, 2009, 03:19:07 PM
Anything that pisses off libertariantards makes me happy.
:hug:
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 03:18:34 PM
And then the Republicans will get back in power...and spend exactly the same amount that Obama is spending...only they will cut taxes while doing it.
You're assuming we get another big-government conservative like Bush. I doubt that will happen.
Quote from: Faeelin on April 15, 2009, 03:19:28 PM
I don't get your point. Was Oklahoma City done by a leftist?
I think I'm missing your point as well.
Quote from: derspiess on April 15, 2009, 03:19:43 PM
You're assuming we get another big-government conservative like Bush. I doubt that will happen.
No I am assuming we get some socially conservative populist like Huckabee. The days of the small government Republicans are over man.
Quote from: Faeelin on April 15, 2009, 03:19:28 PM
I don't get your point. Was Oklahoma City done by a leftist?
Extremism is something exhibited only by the right. :yes:
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 03:18:34 PM
And then the Republicans will get back in power...and spend exactly the same amount that Obama is spending...only they will cut taxes while doing it.
Then there's no difference at all as Barack has cut taxes too.
Quote from: Savonarola on April 15, 2009, 03:22:04 PM
Then there's no difference at all as Barack has cut taxes too.
Not the right ones. :angry:
The comparison to the anti-war thing that supposedly swept the Dems into power is actually apt. It is not like the Democrats are going to change the foreign policy in any real way. We will continue in both Iraq and Afghanistan...
But I bet we will not hear as much from the anti-war leftists because it really was not that much about the policies as it was simply anti-Bushism.
Quote from: Savonarola on April 15, 2009, 03:22:04 PM
Then there's no difference at all as Barack has cut taxes too.
Excellent point!
Quote from: derspiess on April 15, 2009, 03:19:43 PM
You're assuming we get another big-government conservative like Bush. I doubt that will happen.
Why not? Huckabee's pretty clear big government combined with a touching social conservatism.
Also, The Clinton years saw an upswing in right-wing fanaticism. What's strange about imagining that now under Obama?
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 03:22:57 PM
The comparison to the anti-war thing that supposedly swept the Dems into power is actually apt. It is not like the Democrats are going to change the foreign policy in any real way. We will continue in both Iraq and Afghanistan...
But I bet we will not hear as much from the anti-war leftists because it really was not that much about the policies as it was simply anti-Bushism.
I don't think this is apt, unless you think anti-war protestors wanted to leave behind failed states taken over by radical Islamist groups.
If Obama tried to start another war, the anti-war left would be out there.
Quote from: Faeelin on April 15, 2009, 03:25:53 PM
If Obama tried to start another war, the anti-war left would be out there.
We will see...
they certainly did not hit the streets to protest any of the military things Clinton did...not that they were on anywhere the same scale...
Quote from: Malthus on April 15, 2009, 02:39:53 PM
They'd get a better turnout if they called it a "teabagging party".
As a matter of fact, they did. :D
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hollow-hill.com%2Fsabina%2Fimages%2Fteabag-the-freeper.jpg&hash=3e52c5cba8bed8dbd821d77313c4875eb299d32c)
The unfortunate choice of words has been a running joke for days now.
Other is titling an anti-gay rights website 2M4M (which stands for "2 millions for marriage") :P
Conservatives: bad at creativity. :D
Quote from: Faeelin on April 15, 2009, 03:25:02 PM
Why not? Huckabee's pretty clear big government combined with a touching social conservatism.
Also, The Clinton years saw an upswing in right-wing fanaticism. What's strange about imagining that now under Obama?
Has Huckabee been elected? I don't think the GOP will come to power with a Huckabee leading the way. I think it will have to be someone who runs more on fiscal issues and less on social issues.
Quote from: derspiess on April 15, 2009, 03:19:43 PM
You're assuming we get another big-government conservative like Bush. I doubt that will happen.
When did a Republican last shrink the size of the state? I mean, they may not be anywhere near as bad but is it really likely that they'll reverse anything?
As to these protests they seem a bit silly due to a completely over-the-top historical analogy. They also don't seem focussed enough. Alastair Campbell had a great post on his blog (it's so strange that he's doing this sort of thing) about the G20 protests:
QuoteThere were certainly thousands of people out on the streets of London, and plenty of causes for which support and anger were being expressed - anti-banks, anti-poverty, anti-globalisation, anti-capitalism, anti-global warming, anti-war general, anti-war specific, anti-the UK government, anti-other governments, anti-all governments.
Put more positively, pro-fairness, pro-social justice, pro-jobs, pro-a radical reordering of the finances and power structures of the world. And of course, whatever the certainty with which Tony [Benn] expresses his view, none of us know for sure what difference the protests make. That goes both for the peaceful protests and those which involved violence and damage to buildings and so took most of the media coverage throughout the day.
First question - would the leaders be aware of the scale and nature of the protests? Yes. They will all be aware both via briefings from their own political and security teams and from occasional snatches of TV they might catch between meetings.
Second question - will it have any impact in the short term i.e. for the decisions they are due to take as part of the formal G20 deliberations? Almost certainy not. The leaders are already well aware of the anger felt globally at what has happened in the economy, and know a lot of that anger has crystallised around the banks.
But whilst the leaders have considerable room for manoeuvre in negotiation, beyond the positions scoped out by their sherpas, I am not persuaded by the idea that demos outside the discussions - peaceful or violent - will be among the factors swaying them.
[...]
I can remember once a meeting the other TB (Tony Blair) had with musicians Bono and Bob Geldof at the time of a G7 summit when the British government was trying to persuade other governments to take a greater interest in Africa and in particular the issue of debt relief. Tony - and he did the same around the time of the Jubilee 2000 campaign - was effectively saying the British welcomed pressure, because it strengthened our hands in negotiations with others. That was a specific cause and a specific campaign that had considerable success.
The problem strategically with the current protests is the lack of clarity about objectives, other than the right to express anger, while the violence allows those who don't want to hear to dismiss any arguments against a pre-fixed point of view. When all is said and done, all but hardcore anarchists understand that countries require governments, that democracy is the best system yet invented and that while no democratic system is perfect, governments duly elected have to be able to make difficult decisions.
That's just an excerpt but I think these protests seem a right-wing version of that. There doesn't seem to be any coherent goals or objectives. It seems to just serve as a vent for people who are annoyed about Obama-government generally (though who were significantly less annoyed at it for the last 8 years, unless this is actually just a Pauliac convention).
However, I love protests, I love protesting and I think they're a really wonderful and vital element of democracy that really gets the sense of your own voice and the voice of a group acting in solidarity that's key to how our democracies work (voting, on the other hand, seems almost onanistic). I wish these guys the best of luck, hope they clarify the message and work out what it is they're protesting, exactly. And I'm very glad that the right is learning to protest :)
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 03:26:49 PMWe will see...
The die-hard anti-war protesters have been protesting. They're very unhappy about Afghanistan. It's just that they're a minority.
Quotethey certainly did not hit the streets to protest any of the military things Clinton did...not that they were on anywhere the same scale...
That was a multilateral mission with a clear goal, that was mainly fought from the air and that was able to be summed up in one word: 'Kosovo'. I think the Iraq war was far more complicated. I mean even now could we say why we went into Iraq. I can think of at least 4-5 excuses that were used and the one that was used by this government was false and was a lie.
They were very different sorts of war and, I think, the tone was more unpleasant. People got into hugely heated arguments over Iraq that I don't think they ever did over Kosovo.
For what it's worth many in the Tory party objected to Kosovo on realist grounds (I believe the Republicans did the same) and there were serious anti-NATO protests in Europe.
It all started with Lincoln. He didn't respect states' rights. :(
Quote from: derspiess on April 15, 2009, 03:34:34 PM
Has Huckabee been elected? I don't think the GOP will come to power with a Huckabee leading the way. I think it will have to be someone who runs more on fiscal issues and less on social issues.
I doubt that. But I hope you are right. If the GOP would dump the social agenda I would support them.
Quote from: Martinus on April 15, 2009, 03:39:58 PM
It all started with Lincoln. He didn't respect states' rights. :(
That is good. States don't have rights.
Speaking of Joe Plumber, I understand he is now endorsing a site which allows people to pay 95 cents to vote to abolish IRS. Way to reach out and get the loon dollar. :lol:
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 03:40:51 PM
Quote from: Martinus on April 15, 2009, 03:39:58 PM
It all started with Lincoln. He didn't respect states' rights. :(
That is good. States don't have rights.
Neither do slaves. :contract:
Quote from: derspiess on April 15, 2009, 03:34:34 PM
Has Huckabee been elected? I don't think the GOP will come to power with a Huckabee leading the way. I think it will have to be someone who runs more on fiscal issues and less on social issues.
This is a nice idea in theory, but thus far the Republicans don't seem to have anyone like that in the running.
Edit: Yes, it's early, but who in the party today looks like that and is nationally prominent?
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 15, 2009, 03:39:21 PM
The die-hard anti-war protesters have been protesting. They're very unhappy about Afghanistan. It's just that they're a minority.
Just like the Libertarians and Pauliacs who normally do this sort of protesting will protest anyway.
Quote from: Martinus on April 15, 2009, 03:41:20 PM
Neither do slaves. :contract:
Yes they do. It is the very foundation of liberalism. All men are created equal and have inalianable rights. Groups have no rights. Polish people have no rights to anything...Martinus though does have rights. That is why nationalism (our group has a RIGHT to an independent nation) is an evil idea while liberalism (all people have rights) is good and right.
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 03:40:32 PM
I doubt that. But I hope you are right. If the GOP would dump the social agenda I would support them.
To be clear, I'm stating what formula I think the GOP will need to win with, not necessarily what formula they will try to use. It's entirely possible that we could run Huckabee in 2012, but I don't think someone like Huckabee would win.
Although I don't think we'll see another Reagan in our lifetime ( :( ), I think the GOP will need to do what Reagan & Bush-41 did-- court the libertarian vote.
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 03:45:11 PM
Quote from: Martinus on April 15, 2009, 03:41:20 PM
Neither do slaves. :contract:
Yes they do. It is the very foundation of liberalism. All men are created equal and have inalianable rights. Groups have no rights. Polish people have no rights to anything...Martinus though does have rights. That is why nationalism (our group has a RIGHT to an independent nation) is an evil idea while liberalism (all people have rights) is good and right.
You sound like a communist. :P
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 03:40:32 PMI doubt that. But I hope you are right. If the GOP would dump the social agenda I would support them.
It depends what you mean by the social agenda. I think they will get rid of the anti-gay marriage thing and switch to a Federalist position, which would be wise. But I think being pro-life will remain a core part of Republican identity. I think it should.
The problem for Republicans is being able to pick someone who can appeal widely and possibly challenge some taboos while, currently, having a narrower party than they've had for a while. It could happen very quickly, or it could be like the Tories and Labour in this country and they need a few kickings before they get the message.
QuoteJust like the Libertarians and Pauliacs who normally do this sort of protesting will protest anyway.
I thought this was an attempt at a broader protest?
Quote from: Martinus on April 15, 2009, 03:47:29 PM
You sound like a communist. :P
Communists are enemies of the people :angry:
Hey there's one of these going on down at the Alamo right now.
Edit: Glenn Beck is there. :huh:
Edit2: And Ted Nugent! haha awesome!
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/Rally_could_bring_thousands.html
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on April 15, 2009, 03:53:39 PMEdit: Glenn Beck is there. :huh:
He freaks me out :mellow:
People talking about rights are weird.
http://washingtonindependent.com/38877/scenes-from-the-dc-tea-party-more-photos
http://washingtonindependent.com/38877/scenes-from-the-dc-tea-party-more-photos
Hrmm.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on April 15, 2009, 03:53:39 PM
Edit2: And Ted Nugent! haha awesome!
It's not quite a net gain; but at least we got rid of something to make up for Joe the Plumber.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on April 15, 2009, 03:53:39 PM
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/Rally_could_bring_thousands.html
QuoteGov. Perry plans to attend tea parties today in Austin, Arlington and Fort Worth, but he will not be in San Antonio, Perry spokesman Mark Miner said. Perry, like many Texans, is "tired of out-of-control spending," he said.
The spending championed by Texans like Bush and Delay? Really? I love people who combat the very things they create. It shows such moral fortitude. Texans: making me proud since 1836.
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 04:02:32 PM
The spending championed by Texans like Bush and Delay? Really? I love people who combat the very things they create. It shows such moral fortitude. Texans: making me proud since 1836.
It's all about the hair, man. Just focus on that, and ignore what he says and does.
Quote from: derspiess on April 15, 2009, 03:45:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 03:40:32 PM
I doubt that. But I hope you are right. If the GOP would dump the social agenda I would support them.
To be clear, I'm stating what formula I think the GOP will need to win with, not necessarily what formula they will try to use. It's entirely possible that we could run Huckabee in 2012, but I don't think someone like Huckabee would win.
Although I don't think we'll see another Reagan in our lifetime ( :( ), I think the GOP will need to do what Reagan & Bush-41 did-- court the libertarian vote.
Bush 41 raised taxes didn't he? And spending increased dramatically under Reagan. Really Bush wasn't that different from those two. Big difference was that the GOP was kept spell bound by Reagan's personality during his presidency. They didn't actually get much in the way of their "small government" agenda. I think this can clearly be see when so many Republicans were defecting to Ross Perot. If they had gotten what they had wanted they wouldn't be so malcontent.
Quote from: Faeelin on April 15, 2009, 03:59:37 PM
http://washingtonindependent.com/38877/scenes-from-the-dc-tea-party-more-photos
http://washingtonindependent.com/38877/scenes-from-the-dc-tea-party-more-photos
Hrmm.
:lol:
Quote from: Razgovory on April 15, 2009, 05:33:36 PM
raised taxes didn't he?
He did and it was the right thing to do. He was trying to fight the deficit God bless him.
Quote from: derspiess on April 15, 2009, 02:40:14 PM
Well, true. Conservatives & Libertarians generally suck at protesting, because as the more productive members of society, they're usually too busy working.
:XD:
Quote from: Razgovory on April 15, 2009, 05:33:36 PM
And spending increased dramatically under Reagan.
Military spending increased dramatically under Reagan, but is the same true for total spending?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 16, 2009, 04:18:15 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 15, 2009, 05:33:36 PM
And spending increased dramatically under Reagan.
Military spending increased dramatically under Reagan, but is the same true for total spending?
As Military spending is part of spending (a large part of it), spending as a whole went up. Which is why the deficit ballooned during his presidency.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg25.imageshack.us%2Fimg25%2F8485%2Fbradfordreagan1.jpg&hash=5b10c574be2bb999e6ffd97c11609fbd992ae071) (http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bradfordreagan1.jpg)
Quote from: mongers on April 15, 2009, 09:45:31 PM
Why weren't many of these same people carrying out tax protests during the 8 years ? <_<
It could be that the trillions in bail outs and stimulus have finally awakened the public conscience; however I think the answer is more along these lines:
Every Wednesday for the past 5 years or so there were a group of anti-War protestors who gathered on the busy streets in the middle of my suburb. Even in the cold Michigan winters they were there with their clumsily made placards encouraging us to End This War! Early this year they quit doing that. The wars are still going on, in fact Barack has promised to escalate Afghanistan, but the war protestors are gone. I miss them. :(
Quote from: Savonarola on April 16, 2009, 07:51:49 AM
Quote from: mongers on April 15, 2009, 09:45:31 PM
Why weren't many of these same people carrying out tax protests during the 8 years ? <_<
It could be that the trillions in bail outs and stimulus have finally awakened the public conscience; however I think the answer is more along these lines:
Every Wednesday for the past 5 years or so there were a group of anti-War protestors who gathered on the busy streets in the middle of my suburb. Even in the cold Michigan winters they were there with their clumsily made placards encouraging us to End This War! Early this year they quit doing that. The wars are still going on, in fact Barack has promised to escalate Afghanistan, but the war protestors are gone. I miss them. :(
GOD DAMN BUSHITLER!
Quote from: Savonarola on April 16, 2009, 07:51:49 AM
Every Wednesday for the past 5 years or so there were a group of anti-War protestors who gathered on the busy streets in the middle of my suburb. Even in the cold Michigan winters they were there with their clumsily made placards encouraging us to End This War! Early this year they quit doing that. The wars are still going on, in fact Barack has promised to escalate Afghanistan, but the war protestors are gone. I miss them. :(
I think that just about sums it up.
Quote from: Savonarola on April 16, 2009, 07:51:49 AMIt could be that the trillions in bail outs and stimulus have finally awakened the public conscience; however I think the answer is more along these lines:
Every Wednesday for the past 5 years or so there were a group of anti-War protestors who gathered on the busy streets in the middle of my suburb. Even in the cold Michigan winters they were there with their clumsily made placards encouraging us to End This War! Early this year they quit doing that. The wars are still going on, in fact Barack has promised to escalate Afghanistan, but the war protestors are gone. I miss them. :(
Any hot chicks?
QuoteGov. Rick Perry: Texas Could Secede, Leave Union
AUSTIN, Texas -- Texas Gov. Rick Perry fired up an anti-tax "tea party" Wednesday with his stance against the federal government and for states' rights as some in his U.S. flag-waving audience shouted, "Secede!"
An animated Perry told the crowd at Austin City Hall -- one of three tea parties he was attending across the state -- that officials in Washington have abandoned the country's founding principles of limited government. He said the federal government is strangling Americans with taxation, spending and debt.
Perry repeated his running theme that Texas' economy is in relatively good shape compared with other states and with the "federal budget mess." Many in the crowd held signs deriding President Barack Obama and the $786 billion federal economic stimulus package.
Perry called his supporters patriots. Later, answering news reporters' questions, Perry suggested Texans might at some point get so fed up they would want to secede from the union, though he said he sees no reason why Texas should do that.
"There's a lot of different scenarios," Perry said. "We've got a great union. There's absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that. But Texas is a very unique place, and we're a pretty independent lot to boot."
He said when Texas entered the union in 1845 it was with the understanding it could pull out. However, according to the Texas State Library and Archives Commission, Texas negotiated the power to divide into four additional states at some point if it wanted to but not the right to secede.
Texas did secede in 1861, but the North's victory in the Civil War put an end to that.
Perry is running for re-election against U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, a fellow Republican. His anti-Washington remarks have become more strident the past few weeks as that 2010 race gets going and since Perry rejected $550 million in federal economic stimulus money slated to help Texas' unemployment trust fund.
Perry said the stimulus money would come with strings attached that would leave Texas paying the bill once the federal money ran out.
South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, also Republicans, have been outspoken against the federal economic stimulus spending and were supportive of tea parties in their states. The protests were being held throughout the country on federal income tax deadline day to imitate the original Boston Tea Party of American revolutionary times.
In an appearance at the Texas Capitol last week, Perry joined state lawmakers in pushing a resolution that supports states' rights protected in the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. He said the federal government has become oppressive in its size and interference with states.
Since then, Perry has been featured on the online Drudge Report, and other conservative commentators and citizens have latched on to his words.
After praising veterans in the cheering crowd Wednesday, he said: "I'm just not real sure you're a bunch of right-wing extremists. But if you are, we're with you."
Perry said he believes he could be at the center of a national movement that is coordinated and focused in its opposition to the actions of the federal government.
"It's a very organic thing," he said. "It is a very powerful moment, I think, in American history."
For her part, Hutchison issued a newspaper opinion piece Wednesday criticizing the Democratic-led Congress for spending on the stimulus bill and the $1 trillion appropriations bill.
"On April 15 -- Tax Day -- some in Congress may need a reminder of just who is underwriting this spending: the American taxpayer. I am deeply concerned over the swelling tax burden that will be imposed on all Texas families," she wrote.
The crowd at the Austin tea party appeared to be decidedly anti-Democrat. Many of the speakers were Republicans and Libertarians.
One placard said, "Stop Obama's Socialism." Another read, "Some Pirates Are in America," and it showed photographs of Obama, U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid wearing pirate hats.
Rebecca Knowlton, 45, of Smithville, said she took the day off of home-schooling her three children and brought them to the rally to teach them about civic duty. Knowlton, a critic of the Social Security system and the United Nations, said she felt camaraderie at the demonstration.
"The movement is growing stronger," she said. "You're not alone."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/15/gov-rick-perry-texas-coul_n_187490.html
Good riddance. Let those shitkicking retards go.
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 02:55:59 PM
Quote from: KRonn on April 15, 2009, 02:48:41 PM
They chose the income tax filing deadline to express their displeasure with government spending since President Barack Obama took office.
Huh? Obama has pretty much done the exact same thing as his predecessors. What has changed?
I'm just quoting the article, italicizing the first parts of it. But I think many of us, no matter the party, feel that Pres Obama and Congress has been embarking on new programs and spending, well over and above economic stimulus. There's been much concern about the spending, whether it be for bailouts or new programs. We've all been talking about it for weeks!
As for me, I don't see this as so much anti-Obama as as protest over business as usual with Congress, and what ever Presidential administration is in power. Things are coming to a boil with the economy, so that had to add to protests over spending. The stuff we've also been talking about for weeks. Aside from the kooks, those with the "Impeach Obama" posters or something, most of the people there are workers, taxpayers, regular folks; not right wing zealots. Glad to see the protests actually. We're so used to seeing Code Pink and similar extremist groups in virtual protest, that finally more regular people are speaking out.
Quote"There's a lot of different scenarios," Perry said. "We've got a great union. There's absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that. But Texas is a very unique place, and we're a pretty independent
I love how the Republican Party losing elections means to Perry Washington is thumbing their nose at the American people.
God he is a fuckhead. :frusty:
Quote from: KRonn on April 16, 2009, 08:41:20 AM
As for me, I don't see this as so much anti-Obama as as protest over business as usual with Congress, and what ever Presidential administration is in power.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3602%2F3444721125_8cb1952500.jpg%3Fv%3D0&hash=8933dadfe5557164ad62a2932b198821f2df65c1)
Quote from: KRonn on April 16, 2009, 08:41:20 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 15, 2009, 02:55:59 PM
Quote from: KRonn on April 15, 2009, 02:48:41 PM
They chose the income tax filing deadline to express their displeasure with government spending since President Barack Obama took office.
Huh? Obama has pretty much done the exact same thing as his predecessors. What has changed?
I'm just quoting the article, italicizing the first parts of it. But I think many of us, no matter the party, feel that Pres Obama and Congress has been embarking on new programs and spending, well over and above economic stimulus. There's been much concern about the spending, whether it be for bailouts or new programs. We've all been talking about it for weeks!
As for me, I don't see this as so much anti-Obama as as protest over business as usual with Congress, and what ever Presidential administration is in power. Things are coming to a boil with the economy. The stuff we've also been talking about for weeks. Aside from the kooks, those with the "Impeach Obama" posters or something, most of the people there are workers, taxpayers, regular folks; not right wing zealots. Glad to see the protests actually. We're so used to seeing Code Pink and similar extremist groups in virtual protest, that finally more regular people are speaking out.
Right it is business as usual. Nothing new. I am fine with protesting that but that is not what is going on here. It is a trojan horse to sneak the Republicans back into power unreformed. They will hijack the frustrations with the Feds all the while keeping the party going. Fuck them. I will not be manipulated into thinking people like Perry and the other Republicans mean a word they say. Their actions speak volumes.
I also note protests like this only seem to happen when Clinton and Obama are in power. Color me cynical.
Wow, after the various and numerous left wing groups protesting everything, all the hate and nastiness spewed, we finally have regular people protesting govt business as usual and all the anger that has caused, and Languish can't handle it! You all should be protesting too! This may be against Obama for some, but in large part it's also non-partisan protesting by angry and concerned taxpayers. About frigging time!!
Quote from: KRonn on April 16, 2009, 08:47:35 AM
Wow, after the various and numerous left wing groups protesting everything, all the hate and nastiness spewed, we finally have regular people protesting govt business as usual and all the anger that has caused, and Languish can't handle it! You all should be protesting too! This may be against Obama for some, but in large part it's also non-partisan protesting by angry and concerned taxpayers. About frigging time!!
Um...finally? You act like this has never happened before. It is the 90s all over again. Business as usual. Where were these guys when we were running up huge deficits and bullshit before? Oh right they didn't care because the Republicans were in power. But in 1993 they were FURIOUS at out of control spending and taxes. It is amazing how outrage over spending goes away as soon as red controls the Congress.
And yes I have never given leftists shit before on this board.
So when's the next civil war ? Now that would make for a fine diversion ! :thumbsup:
So what are these fools protesting again ? The government governing ? They remind me of a sick man who's protesting because the doctor is actually trying to fix him rather than pumping him full of drugs :rolleyes:
G.
What the Repubs and/or right wingers risk now is doing to Obama what was done to Bush with being overly vehement, finding fault with everything he does - that kind of stuff. That's happening somewhat and it's annoying. Just clouds the actual issues with nasty or uber partisanship.
QuoteHe said when Texas entered the union in 1845 it was with the understanding it could pull out.
Ok what the fuck Perry? That is a total and complete fantasy story.
Quote from: KRonn on April 16, 2009, 09:00:26 AM
What the Repubs and/or right wingers risk now is doing to Obama what was done to Bush with being overly vehement, finding fault with everything he does - that kind of stuff. That's happening somewhat and it's annoying. Just clouds the actual issues with nasty or uber partisanship.
You think? That is exactly what it is. I just get tired of the same garbage and then they act like they are the Sons of Liberty acting on principals...the only principal here is that they lost an election. Talk about secession because of lost elections? Hello? This is from the fucking Governor of the State for godsake.
America is saved!
QuoteAnger boils among Michigan militia members
Bancroft -- The coordinator of the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia is a postman. The corpsman of the Lenawee Volunteer Militia works in the paint and hardware department at Wal-Mart. He earns $11.25 an hour. His son, the major, works in a group home for the developmentally disabled. He earns $9.50 an hour. Their comrade, the commander, was laid-off from his job at a vitamin store. He earns nothing.
"Am I angry?" asked the unemployed commander, with a semi-automatic rifle strapped across his pectorals. "Yeah, it sets you off a little bit."
Come to a Michigan Militia picnic and you realize the commander is not alone. The farm where they rallied was chockfull of people like him, people boiling on the back burner, struggling to make ends meet, carrying around a knapsack of resentment for a government that they claim has taken almost everything from them and given nothing in return.
"Liberty," says the commander, 33, whose Christian name is Matthew Savino, of Adrian. "You cannot take my liberty. Eventually a man draws a line in the sand."
And so, more than 100 people like Savino converged on the farm of Frank Stasa, who militia literature says "kicked Hitler's a--."
The militia held its annual field day on Stasa's farm, about a 20-minute car-drive west of Flint, and threw in a tea party and tax revolt for good measure. The militia's party included hamburgers, sausages, soda pop and a .50 caliber carbine rifle and a firing range. Kids were admitted free.
With the economic meltdown, the complaints of the militiamen are beginning to sound less like paranoia and more like the topic of Manhattan cocktail parties: a socialized economy, a ballooning debt and wars on two fronts.
"What are we leaving the children?" asked Rob Soldenski, a 49-year-old unemployed delivery driver from Warren. "A legacy of debt and an infringement on their civil liberties. We got to push back when the time to push comes."
"I've seen a 35 percent reduction in pay," said his ex-wife Cyn Soldenski, who brought along their 7-year-old daughter Tessa. "I bought a house 18 months ago. The interest rate is going to reset and I'm so far underwater I'm going to drown. We've got to take the stupid government and throw it out."
If you listen to this group you begin to realize that they cannot take over the world; they probably couldn't take over their brother's trailer payments. They are a restless and frustrated group: a hodgepodge of ex-farmers, ex-military, ex-truck drivers, ex-factory workers, wipers of other people's bottoms. Many are firmly among the state's 20 percent unemployed or underemployed.
They turn to the Bill of Rights, though most people here could not recite those 10 amendments. They prepare for a war to defend them. No one can say -- not even the militia members themselves -- how many people sympathize with their movement.
"OK, you work all day long and you sell your liberty to survive," said Mike Slomkowski, 50, a former factory worker who now teaches firearm training. "They take your work away. You've now put a man in a corner. The government worries about him being idle and so they begin to crowd his liberty. Here is where you have a problem."
The militia is not alone in placing their faith in the gun and bullet. Consider that there is a national shortage of ammunition, blamed in part on the election of Barack Obama. The NRA has warned its millions of members that the Obama Administration wants to restrict gun ownership and tax ammunition. FBI firearm background checks have increased more than 30 percent since he was elected president.
Still, the picnic goers railed about George W. Bush, too. In fact they believe there is little difference between a Democrat and a Republican. Bush, Clinton, Obama. Stick them in a bag. Shake it up. And the same rapacious thing crawls out: a creature from a smoke-filled backroom.
"They're all the same thing," Cyn Soldenski said. "Corporate tools."
Ever since the Oklahoma City bombing of 1995, the Michigan Militia has been branded a hate group of fringe crazies. But the militiamen at Stasa's farm were quick to point out that Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, the perpetrators of the 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building that killed 168 people, were not Michigan Militia members but rather curiosity seekers. Naturally, the militia blames the media for this misconception.
"The press has given the militia a bad name," said Jim Gulliksen, 59, the Wal-Mart worker from Adrian.
"Untrue," said this reporter. "Timothy McVeigh gave the militia a bad name."
"OK, he kind of gave the militia a bad name," retorted Gulliksen. "But the people in the militia hated him. They didn't want him. He came to one or two meetings before we told him to get out of here."
McVeigh notwithstanding, the militia provides a release valve for a frustrated class, said Lee Miracle, a postal worker from Sterling Heights, and coordinator of the picnic's shooting range.
"In the end, I hope we're mitigating anger by teaching people to shoot," Miracle said. "Hey, I work at the post office. The boss asks why I go out to the range every month. I tell him: 'You want me to go to the range every month.' It blows off steam."
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2009, 08:52:58 AM
Quote from: KRonn on April 16, 2009, 08:47:35 AM
Wow, after the various and numerous left wing groups protesting everything, all the hate and nastiness spewed, we finally have regular people protesting govt business as usual and all the anger that has caused, and Languish can't handle it! You all should be protesting too! This may be against Obama for some, but in large part it's also non-partisan protesting by angry and concerned taxpayers. About frigging time!!
Um...finally? You act like this has never happened before. It is the 90s all over again. Business as usual. Where were these guys when we were running up huge deficits and bullshit before? Oh right they didn't care because the Republicans were in power. But in 1993 they were FURIOUS at out of control spending and taxes. It is amazing how outrage over spending goes away as soon as red controls the Congress.
And yes I have never given leftists shit before on this board.
The economic meltdown and the focusing on bail outs, then the pork laden bills passed by Congress had to have a big impact. It did to me. I knew it was going on before but didn't pay such close attention to it, as when the bailout bills received the scrutiny that probably all of Congress's spending should receive. All of that was under such intensive reporting, scrutiny, that it had to have annoyed a lot of people who finally got fed up. We all talked about this stuff on these forums. So yeah, this has been going on all along, and a few Congress members have tried to change it - McCain for one, and others Dems and Repubs. I do agree that it is disingenuous for some of these Repubs to be bashing Obama and the Dems for it, as they're part of the problem. The saving grace for them may be to point to what they feel is the heavy over spending, apart from economic stim, as I've mentioned and as we've been talking about on the forums here for a while. And the Repubs will try to make political hay out of that. They're just as politically corrupt.
Those militia guys, for all their insanity and paranoia, at least understand to not trust the current two party system to effect real changes in the way Congress operates.
Quote from: KRonn on April 16, 2009, 09:09:19 AMThe economic meltdown and the focusing on bail outs, then the pork laden bills passed by Congress had to have a big impact. It did to me. I knew it was going on before but didn't pay such close attention to it, as when the bailout bills received the scrutiny that probably all of Congress's spending should receive.
What? Where were you during the Energy bill controversy several years back?
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2009, 09:14:18 AM
Those militia guys, for all their insanity and paranoia, at least understand to not trust the current two party system to effect real changes in the way Congress operates.
Though looking at it another way, one imagines that under any system you could name many of these guys would still be on unemployment, collecting guns and bitching about the fat-cat "guv'ment". ;)
it's interesting that hardworking "regular" people are apparently, never, ever, "leftists." :ike:
on a more substantial note, this is the first time I have ever read of a national shortage of ammunition. :unsure:
Quote from: Malthus on April 16, 2009, 09:22:21 AM
Though looking at it another way, one imagines that under any system you could name many of these guys would still be on unemployment, collecting guns and bitching about the fat-cat "guv'ment". ;)
Yeah I do not really see what they are expecting the Government to do.
Quote from: Martinus on April 15, 2009, 03:41:20 PM
Neither do slaves. :contract:
Ask a lawyer, and find out the truth: all humans have rights.
Quote from: saskganesh on April 16, 2009, 09:24:26 AM
it's interesting that hardworking "regular" people are apparently, never, ever, "leftists." :ike:
on a more substantial note, this is the first time I have ever read of a national shortage of ammunition. :unsure:
My father and I cleaned and restored his old shot gun and replaced the ammo and everything last month...nobody mentioned anything about an ammo shortage. There is a huge gun show coming this weekend...
I think the weapon industry is just fine. This is just shit people are making up to fuel the Republican come back. Sort of like how tax burdens are swelling when taxes have not even gone up.
Quote from: Malthus on April 16, 2009, 09:22:21 AM
Though looking at it another way, one imagines that under any system you could name many of these guys would still be on unemployment, collecting guns and bitching about the fat-cat "guv'ment". ;)
Ironically not under communism :D
Quote from: saskganesh on April 16, 2009, 09:24:26 AM
it's interesting that hardworking "regular" people are apparently, never, ever, "leftists." :ike:
on a more substantial note, this is the first time I have ever read of a national shortage of ammunition. :unsure:
There is a conspiracy e-mail going around that the shortage is intentional. I just laugh when I get one.
Also, leftists at best are basket weavers.
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2009, 09:26:56 AM
My father and I cleaned and restored his old shot gun and replaced the ammo and everything last month...nobody mentioned anything about an ammo shortage. There is a huge gun show coming this weekend...
I think the weapon industry is just fine. This is just shit people are making up to fuel the Republican come back. Sort of like how tax burdens are swelling when taxes have not even gone up.
The weapon industry is booming; that's the point the columnist was trying to make. FBI background checks have increased and there's an ammo shortage because people are buying guns for fear that Obama will increase gun restrictions or tax ammunition.
Quote from: Savonarola on April 16, 2009, 09:30:20 AM
The weapon industry is booming; that's the point the columnist was trying to make. FBI background checks have increased and there's an ammo shortage because people are buying guns for fear that Obama will increase gun restrictions or tax ammunition.
Also because those Mexican drug cartels have to get all that ammo and weapons smuggled back across the border. They have Mexican soldiers to kill and they needs lots of ammo.
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2009, 09:32:11 AM
Also because those Mexican drug cartels have to get all that ammo and weapons smuggled back across the border. They have Mexican soldiers to kill and they needs lots of ammo.
The munitions industry pulled us out of the Great Depression. Happy days are here again!
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2009, 09:04:39 AM
Quote from: KRonn on April 16, 2009, 09:00:26 AM
What the Repubs and/or right wingers risk now is doing to Obama what was done to Bush with being overly vehement, finding fault with everything he does - that kind of stuff. That's happening somewhat and it's annoying. Just clouds the actual issues with nasty or uber partisanship.
You think? That is exactly what it is. I just get tired of the same garbage and then they act like they are the Sons of Liberty acting on principals...the only principal here is that they lost an election. Talk about secession because of lost elections? Hello? This is from the fucking Governor of the State for godsake.
It really is quite amazing after the election how many Republicans really didn't support Bush for the last 8 years and were actually libertarians all along who despised his free spending ways. ;)
Quote from: Vince on April 16, 2009, 09:45:54 AM
It really is quite amazing after the election how many Republicans really didn't support Bush for the last 8 years and were actually libertarians all along who despised his free spending ways. ;)
I'll go on the record. I voted for Bush twice. I lovingly voted for him, given the alternative. I loved the neo-isolationist sort of message in 2000( I was tiring of Johnny Euro back then), and the fuck the foreigners and bomb the hell out of brown peoples one in 2004.
I'll stand behind those votes until the end of time. USA! USA!
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 16, 2009, 09:49:35 AM
I'll go on the record. I voted for Bush twice. I lovingly voted for him, given the alternative. I loved the neo-isolationist sort of message in 2000( I was tiring of Johnny Euro back then), and the fuck the foreigners and bomb the hell out of brown peoples one in 2004.
I'll stand behind those votes until the end of time. USA! USA!
Those are good reasons to vote for Bush.
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2009, 09:53:15 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 16, 2009, 09:49:35 AM
I'll go on the record. I voted for Bush twice. I lovingly voted for him, given the alternative. I loved the neo-isolationist sort of message in 2000( I was tiring of Johnny Euro back then), and the fuck the foreigners and bomb the hell out of brown peoples one in 2004.
I'll stand behind those votes until the end of time. USA! USA!
Those are good reasons to vote for Bush.
Captain, Scarcasm Torpedo in the water!
Captain Ed: FLANK SPEED! LEFT HARD RUDDER!
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 16, 2009, 09:56:01 AM
Captain, Scarcasm Torpedo in the water!
Captain Ed: FLANK SPEED! LEFT HARD RUDDER!
Actually I was being serious :blush:
hehe, your rudder is hard.
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2009, 09:57:30 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 16, 2009, 09:56:01 AM
Captain, Scarcasm Torpedo in the water!
Captain Ed: FLANK SPEED! LEFT HARD RUDDER!
Actually I was being serious :blush:
:blush:
I was about to fire my Long Lance.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 16, 2009, 04:18:15 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 15, 2009, 05:33:36 PM
And spending increased dramatically under Reagan.
Military spending increased dramatically under Reagan, but is the same true for total spending?
Anyway, spending is only part of the equation. You also have regulation & taxes.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 16, 2009, 09:49:35 AM
I'll go on the record. I voted for Bush twice. I lovingly voted for him, given the alternative. I loved the neo-isolationist sort of message in 2000( I was tiring of Johnny Euro back then), and the fuck the foreigners and bomb the hell out of brown peoples one in 2004.
I'll stand behind those votes until the end of time. USA! USA!
I applaud your consistency in these flip-flopping times. :thumbsup:
Quote from: KRonn on April 16, 2009, 08:41:20 AM
The stuff we've also been talking about for weeks. Aside from the kooks, those with the "Impeach Obama" posters or something, most of the people there are workers, taxpayers, regular folks; not right wing zealots. Glad to see the protests actually.
Most of the people at the anti-war protests were normal bourgeois folks: families with their kids, pensioners, vicars with 'make tea not war' signs. That didn't stop them being tarred with the 'looney left' stuff. And as I remember it the feeling about those protests on this forum was more or less contempt :mellow:
QuoteMilitary spending increased dramatically under Reagan, but is the same true for total spending?
You mean non-military spending? I don't know. The figures I've seen in different places vary pretty widely. I think it depends what you mean by non-military spending. I assume that's because Medicare and stuff like that don't count as discretionary? But I'm not sure.
Quote from: KRonn on April 16, 2009, 08:47:35 AM
we finally have regular people protesting
Regular people in the US carry pro Fox News signs? How did Obama get elected?
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 16, 2009, 01:53:08 PM
Quote from: KRonn on April 16, 2009, 08:47:35 AM
we finally have regular people protesting
Regular people in the US carry pro Fox News signs? How did Obama get elected?
All the people protesting were carrying pro-Fox News signs? :huh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCA-3q6t57Q&feature=player_embedded
Obama is spreading socialfascicommunislamism to America.
Quote from: derspiess on April 16, 2009, 01:59:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 16, 2009, 01:53:08 PM
Quote from: KRonn on April 16, 2009, 08:47:35 AM
we finally have regular people protesting
Regular people in the US carry pro Fox News signs? How did Obama get elected?
All the people protesting were carrying pro-Fox News signs? :huh:
Did I saw all? From the pictures posted earlier I saw a number of them. If these are all"regular" folks then my question stands.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 16, 2009, 02:14:18 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 16, 2009, 01:59:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 16, 2009, 01:53:08 PM
Quote from: KRonn on April 16, 2009, 08:47:35 AM
we finally have regular people protesting
Regular people in the US carry pro Fox News signs? How did Obama get elected?
All the people protesting were carrying pro-Fox News signs? :huh:
Did I saw all? From the pictures posted earlier I saw a number of them. If these are all"regular" folks then my question stands.
Seems that you implied all, since KRonn never claimed every single person in the protest was a regular person.
The people with the kookiest signs get the most media attention. That's the way it has worked for at least since Reagan; why would now be any different?
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 16, 2009, 02:14:18 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 16, 2009, 01:59:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 16, 2009, 01:53:08 PM
Quote from: KRonn on April 16, 2009, 08:47:35 AM
we finally have regular people protesting
Regular people in the US carry pro Fox News signs? How did Obama get elected?
All the people protesting were carrying pro-Fox News signs? :huh:
Did I saw all? From the pictures posted earlier I saw a number of them. If these are all"regular" folks then my question stands.
I never said all were regular folks. I even mentioned the loons with the "Impeach Obama" signs and other stuff. Same extremes as you get at left wing rallies, anti war rallies (Bush=Hitler), what ever rallies. My view and feeling is that many regular people are angry over the economy, how government has been operating, taxes, and more - finally fed up enough to start showing it. But seems many of you are intent on showing the protests as all radical right wingers, Obama haters, or what ever. Of course some are, but don't discount this as something by radicals. Taxpayers and voters are angry. It's late, and they should have been just as vocal during the Bush tax and spend years too.
But as I've said, again, what's been going on with the economy, bail outs, and all has been a lot more visible and under a microscope in the media and in people's minds than it was under the Bush admin. So more annoyance, late, but there. And of course the Repubs will make as much of it that they can, along with the populists. It will be to their detriment to drag out every little thing Obama does as a negative, at least in my view. Would be a fast way to discredit the Repubs even more.
Just my view. We all can come up with our conspiracy theories, blame Fox news, Bush=Hitler or what ever. But talk to your friends and neighbors. Don't you find that people are quite a bit annoyed over what's been going on with government, bail outs, economy and the causes for the meltdown? And as I've said already in this thread, some of these same issues we've all been talking about for months. So why is it any surprise that some protests are starting? And why label/dismiss them all as radical righties?
Quote from: KRonn on April 16, 2009, 02:28:24 PM
I never said all were regular folks. I even mentioned the loons with the "Impeach Obama" signs and other stuff. Same extremes as you get at left wing rallies, anti war rallies (Bush=Hitler), what ever rallies. My view and feeling is that many regular people are angry over the economy, how government has been operating, taxes, and more - finally fed up enough to start showing it. But seems many of you are intent on showing the protests as all radical right wingers, Obama haters, or what ever. Of course some are, but don't discount this as something by radicals. Taxpayers and voters are angry. It's late, and they should have been just as vocal during the Bush tax and spend years too.
But as I've said, again, what's been going on with the economy, bail outs, and all has been a lot more visible and under a microscope in the media and in people's minds than it was under the Bush admin. So more annoyance, late, but there. And of course the Repubs will make as much of it that they can, along with the populists. It will be to their detriment to drag out every little thing Obama does as a negative, at least in my view. Would be a fast way to discredit the Repubs even more.
Just my view. We all can come up with our conspiracy theories, blame Fox news, Bush=Hitler or what ever. But talk to your friends and neighbors. Don't you find that people are quite a bit annoyed over what's been going on with government, bail outs, economy and the causes for the meltdown? And as I've said already in this thread, some of these same issues we've all been talking about for months. So why is it any surprise that some protests are starting? And why label/dismiss them all as radical righties?
Wait, you seem to imply that those crowds who protested the war were not "normal" people. It's fine to dismiss them as crazy radicals but it's totally unfair to dismiss this much smaller protest as crazy radicals.
Btw, who actually organized this whole thing? I heard it was the Constitution party.
QuoteMy view and feeling is that many regular people are angry over the economy, how government has been operating, taxes, and more - finally fed up enough to start showing it.
I would like to think this is true but I do not buy it. None of the things I have been hearing have anything to do with the actual problems. They are just the same old ancient slogans about not wanting to pay taxes and how big government is bad. They do not really seem to be addressing the current crisis. It strikes me as rather ignorant populist slogans...but then I suppose that is going to always be true in mass demonstrations.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 16, 2009, 03:24:52 PM
Btw, who actually organized this whole thing? I heard it was the Constitution party.
AFAIK, they were not really centrally organized.
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2009, 03:28:53 PM
I would like to think this is true but I do not buy it. None of the things I have been hearing have anything to do with the actual problems. They are just the same old ancient slogans about not wanting to pay taxes and how big government is bad. They do not really seem to be addressing the current crisis. It strikes me as rather ignorant populist slogans...but then I suppose that is going to always be true in mass demonstrations.
Interesting. You think protesting the expansion of government is populism?
Quote from: derspiess on April 16, 2009, 03:31:01 PM
Interesting. You think protesting the expansion of government is populism?
It definitely can be.
Quote from: derspiess on April 16, 2009, 03:31:01 PM
Interesting. You think protesting the expansion of government is populism?
Anything can be populism. It is a style.
Right now, Keith Olbermann is shaking his tiny, impotent fists and cursing God over these tea parties.
Therefore, they get my Ed Anger Seal of Approval(tm), as anything that pisses him off is a good thing.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 16, 2009, 03:40:17 PM
Right now, Keith Olbermann is shaking his tiny, impotent fists and cursing God over these tea parties.
Well at least something good came from all of this.
Why is he angry about them?
Quote from: Habbaku on April 16, 2009, 03:41:23 PM
Why is he angry about them?
Because Fox News likes them. And the allies of the Bushitler like them. Watching MSNBC is hilarious. Somebody is going to stroke out on air.
And I will masturbate to that.
Man I am cynical. I have no idea why I am responding this way to the protests since, theoretically, I agree with what they are saying (besides the Obama = Stalinhitler stuff).
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2009, 03:45:19 PM
Man I am cynical. I have no idea why I am responding this way to the protests since, theoretically, I agree with what they are saying (besides the Obama = Stalinhitler stuff).
Stand back, and enjoy the fun. Don't worry, and laugh at everybody. :cool:
Quote from: fahdiz on April 16, 2009, 03:33:19 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 16, 2009, 03:31:01 PM
Interesting. You think protesting the expansion of government is populism?
It definitely can be.
Yeah. I think populism is often rage at the establishment rather than any coherent political programme. Indeed I sort-of think that populism has to be slightly incoherent. Though I'm not sure.
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2009, 03:45:19 PM
Man I am cynical. I have no idea why I am responding this way to the protests since, theoretically, I agree with what they are saying (besides the Obama = Stalinhitler stuff).
Didn't Obama actually lower taxes for 95% of Americans?
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 16, 2009, 03:48:12 PM
Stand back, and enjoy the fun. Don't worry, and laugh at everybody. :cool:
:thumbsup:
Getting upset over the folly of mankind won't get you anything but ulcers. It's much better to laugh at it.
Quote from: Savonarola on April 16, 2009, 03:58:52 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 16, 2009, 03:48:12 PM
Stand back, and enjoy the fun. Don't worry, and laugh at everybody. :cool:
:thumbsup:
Getting upset over the folly of mankind won't get you anything but ulcers. It's much better to laugh at it.
We are all just dust in the wind.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 16, 2009, 03:51:49 PM
Yeah. I think populism is often rage at the establishment rather than any coherent political programme. Indeed I sort-of think that populism has to be slightly incoherent. Though I'm not sure.
Yep
Speaking of which, why is it that Americans are so averse to taxes? It seems that many people dislike the very idea of taxation, notwithstanding how high they are.
Quote from: Martinus on April 16, 2009, 03:58:35 PM
Didn't Obama actually lower taxes for 95% of Americans?
If he has not already part of his stimulis strategy is to lower taxes...but I have my doubts this is a good idea with the budget situation being what it is.
Quote from: Martinus on April 16, 2009, 04:00:27 PM
Speaking of which, why is it that Americans are so averse to taxes? It seems that many people dislike the very idea of taxation, notwithstanding how high they are.
Resistance to taxation is part of the genesis myth of our nation. :swiss:
Quote from: Martinus on April 16, 2009, 04:00:27 PM
Speaking of which, why is it that Americans are so averse to taxes? It seems that many people dislike the very idea of taxation, notwithstanding how high they are.
We have alot of Anarcho-Liberalism in our country. Alot of people just hate authority in any guise, particularly that which takes their money and what garbon said. Resisting taxes is in our blood.
Also we always suspect the government is screwing us over but that is hardly just an American thing.
Man, you guys are like Poles. It's dreadful.
I wish my compatriots were more like Brits or Germans. :(
Quote from: Martinus on April 16, 2009, 04:05:00 PM
Man, you guys are like Poles. It's dreadful.
I wish my compatriots were more like Brits or Germans. :(
You are Russian.
Quote from: Martinus on April 16, 2009, 03:58:35 PM
Didn't Obama actually lower taxes for 95% of Americans?
I think that's a campaign statistic that's not wholly grounded in fact if you take the cumulative effect of his changes to taxes - though definitely they will, if his tax plan is followed, be cut for the majority - roughly the taxes on the rich are going to the levels they were at under Clinton.
Whether cutting tax for that number of people is a good thing is a different question. I actually think the tax system in the US should include more income-earners. But, outside of Ireland, no politician will say that, for obvious reasons.
Quote
If he has not already part of his stimulis strategy is to lower taxes
Well 52% (I believe) of the stimulus was tax cuts/breaks, so I think that was a big part of his tax promises. Though I could be wrong and it could be separate.
QuoteWe have alot of Anarcho-Liberalism in our country. Alot of people just hate authority in any guise, particularly that which takes their money.
But I don't think that would describe this protest. Or it would just be people who voted for Ron Paul.
Speaking of comparisons to Poland, American anarcho-liberalism flourished because you guys faced no real challenge on your continent - unlike, say, Poland, sandwiched between Russia and Prussia, where our anarcho-liberalism led to our downfall.
Do you think that in the age of globalisation, when China or Russia are much "closer" now (enough to be a threat) you guys will need to change your attitude or succumb like the Polish Commonwealth of old?
Quote from: Martinus on April 16, 2009, 04:05:00 PM
Man, you guys are like Poles.
Not really. Except for the places where there are lots of people of Polish ancestry. Those guys are like Poles. Kind of.
Quote from: fahdiz on April 16, 2009, 04:11:16 PM
Quote from: Martinus on April 16, 2009, 04:05:00 PM
Man, you guys are like Poles.
Not really. Except for the places where there are lots of people of Polish ancestry. Those guys are like Poles. Kind of.
They have ascended to being American. They lose the gene that makes them want to put screen doors on submarines and charge tanks on a horse with a lance.
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2009, 04:01:00 PM
Quote from: Martinus on April 16, 2009, 03:58:35 PM
Didn't Obama actually lower taxes for 95% of Americans?
If he has not already part of his stimulis strategy is to lower taxes...but I have my doubts this is a good idea with the budget situation being what it is.
He has. Check the federal tax withholding on your April paycheck(s), it should be lower than for the last few years.
Quote from: Martinus on April 16, 2009, 04:07:55 PM
Speaking of comparisons to Poland, American anarcho-liberalism flourished because you guys faced no real challenge on your continent - unlike, say, Poland, sandwiched between Russia and Prussia, where our anarcho-liberalism led to our downfall.
Do you think that in the age of globalisation, when China or Russia are much "closer" now (enough to be a threat) you guys will need to change your attitude or succumb like the Polish Commonwealth of old?
Somehow I don't think Russia and China will be partioning the US anytime soon.
So, the protest is not about what Obama has actually done or promised to do, but what he will surely do, being a communist traitor he is?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 16, 2009, 04:29:44 PM
Quote from: vinraith on April 16, 2009, 04:24:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 16, 2009, 04:01:00 PM
Quote from: Martinus on April 16, 2009, 03:58:35 PM
He has. Check the federal tax withholding on your April paycheck(s), it should be lower than for the last few years.
Temporary if I'm not mistaken.
An odd statement since tax cuts are also temporary. What do you care? You don't pay taxes in the first place!
Learn to fucking quote.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 16, 2009, 04:35:28 PM
An odd statement since tax cuts are also temporary. What do you care? You don't pay taxes in the first place!
Normal tax cuts are temporary in the sense that any law is temporary, they can all be changed by future acts of Congress. This one is temporary in the sense that it already has an end date built into the law. Again, if I have my facts straigt.
Quote from: Martinus on April 16, 2009, 04:29:02 PM
So, the protest is not about what Obama has actually done or promised to do, but what he will surely do, being a communist traitor he is?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg22.imageshack.us%2Fimg22%2F459%2Fmonkeyspend.jpg&hash=1b41ad3cb40fd3da61e0d3ad24c3501a3364eccd) (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=monkeyspend.jpg)
There might be other factors in there.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 16, 2009, 04:38:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 16, 2009, 04:35:28 PM
An odd statement since tax cuts are also temporary. What do you care? You don't pay taxes in the first place!
Normal tax cuts are temporary in the sense that any law is temporary, they can all be changed by future acts of Congress. This one is temporary in the sense that it already has an end date built into the law. Again, if I have my facts straigt.
The Bush tax cuts had an end date built in I believe.
A chick I went to high school with went to the one in Raleigh yesterday. :bowler:
Love how this is further turning the Republicans into a parody. Also seems to be doing a good job at making farcical the outrage over AIG and the bailouts.
Quote from: Martinus on April 16, 2009, 04:07:55 PMAmerican anarcho-liberalism flourished
Plz explain when this was and how it came to be. I don't remember the flourishing part.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/16/beck-endorses-secession/
These people are treasonous and insane.
Quote from: Queequeg on April 16, 2009, 06:30:57 PM
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/16/beck-endorses-secession/
These people are treasonous and insane.
Sounds like much of the left for the last 8 years. :o
Quote from: garbon on April 16, 2009, 06:32:35 PM
Sounds like much of the left for the last 8 years. :o
My memory is that the left in general didn't like Bush to begin with, generally supported him after 9/11 until the Iraq war - which attracted a lot of left wing support. He drove the left mad because he won as much as policies. But I think, except for the very left, that most lefties weren't being mad until 2003-4.
The elections also went down a bit differently. I don't think anyone ever claimed Bush was an apostle.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 16, 2009, 06:39:59 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 16, 2009, 06:32:35 PM
Sounds like much of the left for the last 8 years. :o
My memory is that the left in general didn't like Bush to begin with, generally supported him after 9/11 until the Iraq war - which attracted a lot of left wing support. He drove the left mad because he won as much as policies. But I think, except for the very left, that most lefties weren't being mad until 2003-4.
Yes true. In fact more democrats gave Bush a high approval rating in his first week in office then Republicans gave Obama.
I'm amused at all the complaints about irrational "Bush hate" for the last several year by the GOP types. Now they are talking about succession!
Quote from: Razgovory on April 16, 2009, 06:48:19 PM
Now they are talking about succession!
Well yes, since the day Obama won, the right has been concerned with how it'll get the office back.
Quote from: garbon on April 16, 2009, 06:46:17 PM
The elections also went down a bit differently. I don't think anyone ever claimed Bush was an apostle.
I thought we were discussing the behaviour of the opposing party not the views of the President's? :mellow:
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 16, 2009, 06:52:48 PM
I thought we were discussing the behaviour of the opposing party not the views of the President's? :mellow:
Views play a role. After all, part of the reason I view Obama as an anathema, beyond kicking Hil to the curb, is because his supporters were so fucking annoying.
Quote from: garbon on April 16, 2009, 06:53:53 PMViews play a role. After all, part of the reason I view Obama as an anathema, beyond kicking Hil to the curb, is because his supporters were so fucking annoying.
I can understand that. But we're not talking about discontent or anything like that, we're talking about stuff like what MP linked to, the nutty stuff. The stuff that's verging on the crypto-Muslim (10% still think he's Muslim, after all), Bill Ayres ghost writing for him and birth certificate nonsense.
Quote from: Queequeg on April 16, 2009, 06:30:57 PM
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/16/beck-endorses-secession/
These people are treasonous and insane.
The role of Tim is already taken. Calm down.
Quote from: garbon on April 16, 2009, 06:46:17 PM
The elections also went down a bit differently. I don't think anyone ever claimed Bush was an apostle.
Well he went to great pains to point out he was a leader. An apostle is a follower.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 16, 2009, 07:09:17 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 16, 2009, 06:30:57 PM
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/16/beck-endorses-secession/
These people are treasonous and insane.
The role of Tim is already taken. Calm down.
Nah, Obama should just state that he will personally ride down to Texas and hang Rick Perry from the nearest tree. Just as the founder of our party said when he was faced with these type of threats.
Eeeeww. <_<
Quote
Protesters Stage Tax Day Crap Session on the Steps of the IRS Building
A group of at least 30 protesters dropped their pants and defecated on the steps of the IRS building in Washington D.C. today in an apparent protest of the US policy to bailout large financial institutions. Onlookers who witnessed the event said that it took only about 30 seconds to complete and was carried out with military like precision.
Most participants appeared to be men and quickly disappeared on foot and into awaiting vehicles at the scene. Witnesses describe them as wearing regular clothes with no marking or slogans of any kind. Minutes after the protest firefighters arrived to remove the neat and uniformly spaced piles of feces from the steps and it quickly became business as usual at the scene with no arrests being made.
Today, April 15th, marks the day when taxpayers are required to file their 2008 tax returns, and the day is looked upon with much anxiety and dread for most citizens. This year is especially noteworthy because of the large Federal bailouts given to major banks that have swelled the Deficit and resulted in a large and growing movement of angry taxpayers that have gathered across the country in National Tax Day Tea Parties being held in major cities.
QuoteDHS issued report on extremism despite concerns
By EILEEN SULLIVAN, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON – Civil liberties officials at the Homeland Security Department did not agree with some of the language in a controversial report on right-wing extremists, but the agency issued the report anyway.
The intelligence assessment issued to law enforcement last week said some military veterans could be susceptible to extremist recruiters or commit lone acts of violence. That prompted angry reactions from some lawmakers and veterans' groups.
Homeland Security spokeswoman Amy Kudwa said the report was issued before officials resolved problems raised by the agency's civil rights division. Kudwa would not specify what language raised the concerns.
Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano defended the report Thursday, but she said the definition of right-wing extremism that was included in a footnote should be changed.
In the report, right-wing extremism was defined as hate-motivated groups and movements, such as hatred of certain religions, racial or ethnic groups. "It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration," the report said.
"If there's one part of that report I would rewrite, in the word-smithing, Washington-ese that goes on after the fact, it would be that footnote," Napolitano said Thursday on Fox News.
The same definition was included in the agency's March 26 report on domestic extremism. Both reports were marked "For Official Use Only."
The report on right-wing extremists cites the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing by military veteran Timothy McVeigh as one instance of a veteran becoming a domestic terrorist.
Several lawmakers, the American Legion and Vets for Freedom took offense to the intelligence review. The Veterans of Foreign Wars defended it as an assessment, not an accusation.
Napolitano said, "We do not mean to suggest that veterans as a whole are at risk of becoming violent extremists."
She also said: "I apologize for that offense. It was certainly not intended."
The top Republican on the House intelligence committee, Michigan's Pete Hoekstra, has asked the director of national intelligence's ombudsman to investigate the Homeland Security report for "unsubstantiated conclusions and political bias."
The senior Democrat of the House committee with oversight of the department said the report raises privacy and civil liberty issues. "This report appears to have blurred the line between violent belief, which is constitutionally protected, and violent action, which is not," Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., wrote in a letter to Napolitano.
The department's definition of left-wing extremism in the March 26 report includes a reference to violence, stating these groups that embrace anticapitalist, communist or socialist beliefs seek "to bring about change through violent revolution rather than through established political processes."
These reports are part of the department's routine analysis of intelligence information to give to law enforcement agencies guidance on possible security threats.
In February, the department issued a similar warning about possible cyber attacks from left wing extremists. In September, the agency reported that right-wing extremists over the past five years had used the immigration debate as a recruiting tool.
Since September, the agency issued several reports on individual foreign and domestic extremist groups such as al-Qaida and Hammerskin Nation, a skinhead organization. The Hammerskin assessment said many of the group's members received military training and fought in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The latest report has turned into a "political football," said Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif. Harman, who chairs a House subcommittee on intelligence and information sharing, said the report could have been written more artfully, but added that "it was a well-intended effort to describe to law enforcement what things to look for."
"If the result is to dumb down intelligence products that could prevent the next attack to the homeland, we will all lose," she said.
(This version CORRECTS to show that DHS would not specify which language raised concerns.)
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 16, 2009, 07:35:06 PM
Eeeeww. <_<
Quote
Protesters Stage Tax Day Crap Session on the Steps of the IRS Building
A group of at least 30 protesters dropped their pants and defecated on the steps of the IRS building in Washington D.C. today in an apparent protest of the US policy to bailout large financial institutions. Onlookers who witnessed the event said that it took only about 30 seconds to complete and was carried out with military like precision.
Most participants appeared to be men and quickly disappeared on foot and into awaiting vehicles at the scene. Witnesses describe them as wearing regular clothes with no marking or slogans of any kind. Minutes after the protest firefighters arrived to remove the neat and uniformly spaced piles of feces from the steps and it quickly became business as usual at the scene with no arrests being made.
Today, April 15th, marks the day when taxpayers are required to file their 2008 tax returns, and the day is looked upon with much anxiety and dread for most citizens. This year is especially noteworthy because of the large Federal bailouts given to major banks that have swelled the Deficit and resulted in a large and growing movement of angry taxpayers that have gathered across the country in National Tax Day Tea Parties being held in major cities.
This must be those "regular people" we keep hearing about.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 16, 2009, 07:01:30 PM
I can understand that. But we're not talking about discontent or anything like that, we're talking about stuff like what MP linked to, the nutty stuff. The stuff that's verging on the crypto-Muslim (10% still think he's Muslim, after all), Bill Ayres ghost writing for him and birth certificate nonsense.
People are generally discontent when the spout nutty political stuff. :mellow:
Quote from: Razgovory on April 16, 2009, 07:48:10 PM
This must be those "regular people" we keep hearing about.
I thought those were the extremists that the DHS was right to warn us about.
Quote from: garbon on April 16, 2009, 07:55:55 PM
People are generally discontent when the spout nutty political stuff. :mellow:
You're right, of course. But I meant to describe a scale from discontented and a bit unhappy, pissed off - like Berkut, or you. At the other end is the nuttiness.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 16, 2009, 08:00:03 PM
You're right, of course. But I meant to describe a scale from discontented and a bit unhappy, pissed off - like Berkut, or you. At the other end is the nuttiness.
They were just waiting for their turn. :P
Quotehttp://www.seattlepi.com/local/6420ap_id_aryan_nations.html Last updated April 18, 2009 12:48 p.m. PT
Aryan Nations recruiting again in N. Idaho
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
COEUR D'ALENE, Idaho -- The Aryan Nations has returned to northern Idaho with what it is calling a "world headquarters" and is recruiting new members.
Coeur d'Alene resident Jerald O'Brien is one of the leaders of the white supremacist group and said he expects membership to grow due to the election of President Barack Obama.
He told The Spokesman-Review that the president is the "greatest recruiting tool ever" and that "like-minded individuals will respond and seek membership."
Residents of a Coeur d'Alene subdivision on Friday found recruitment fliers on their lawns and O'Brien said a lot more fliers will be distributed. He said the group has "several handfuls" of members in the city.
The fliers show a young girl asking her father "Why did those dark men take mommy away?"
But many in the region reject the group.
"I saw Aryan Nations and put it in the trash," said Garvin Jones. "What's wrong with these people? Give me a break. I bet if you went back in their family history, not one is 100 percent white."
The newspaper reported most of the people interviewed in the neighborhood that received the fliers declined to give their names out of fear of retribution.
The Aryan Nations had a compound in northern Idaho until 2000, when the group lost a $6.3 million civil judgment in favor of two people who sued after being attacked by Aryan Nations' members.
The Kootenai County Task Force on Human Relations has fought the Aryan Nations for decades and is offering its services to anyone threatened or harassed by the group.
"It's bound to be a small group of people trying once again to bring hate into the community," said Tony Stewart, a spokesman for the task force. "They don't have anywhere to operate from except a post office box."
O'Brien said the group has a location, but it's "membership privileged information only."
O'Brien, who has a large swastika tattoo on his scalp, said he lives in a home on the east side of the city where he regularly flies two white supremacist flags.
The newspaper reported that its files show O'Brien marching in a neo-Nazi parade in Coeur d'Alene in July 2004 and joining in a skinhead rally that drew eight people outside the Spokane County courthouse in Spokane, Wash., in June 2007.
O'Brien said he and Michael Lombard have taken over the group following longtime leader Richard Butler, who died in 2004.
The fliers are signed "Aryan Nations, Church of Jesus Christ Christian," and O'Brien and Lombard on the group's Web site are listed as "pastors."
In a routine assessment of domestic security that was sent to U.S. law enforcement agencies last week, the Homeland Security Department warned that right-wing extremists could use the bad state of the U.S. economy and the election of the country's first black president to recruit members.
At least two residents who received the fliers called the Coeur d'Alene Police Department. Sgt. Christie Wood said no investigation is planned because distribution of the fliers is protected free speech.
But she said it's a crime to harass anyone based on race and such incidents should be reported.
In other Idaho incidents following Obama's election, a man in the northern Idaho town of Vay erected a sign advertising a "free public hanging" of the then president-elect and several other political figures.
Also, second- and third-graders on a school bus chanted "Assassinate Obama" after the historic Nov. 4 presidential election, prompting Rexburg Mayor Shawn Larsen to issue a public apology for the children in his eastern Idaho city.
I'd suggest sending the National Guard to burn something in Idaho but I am not sure if there is anything worth burning there.
Why put that story in this thread? :rolleyes:
Quote from: Martinus on April 18, 2009, 03:32:31 PM
I'd suggest sending the National Guard to burn something in Idaho but I am not sure if there is anything worth burning there.
The guy who killed my little kitten lives in Idaho. Burn the whole place. Build a wall around it first though so no one can get out.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 18, 2009, 04:06:05 PM
Why put that story in this thread? :rolleyes:
Anti-Obama nuts.
Quote from: Martinus on April 18, 2009, 03:32:31 PM
I'd suggest sending the National Guard to burn something in Idaho but I am not sure if there is anything worth burning there.
Moscow is there.
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/US_Marine_arrested_at_Logan_International_Airport_for_possessing_bomb_making_material
QuoteJustin Reed, 22, a corporal in the United States Marines has been arrested at Logan International Airport in Boston, Massachusetts after security personnel found a gun along with bomb making material inside his checked-in luggage.
According to Transportation Security Administration (TSA), Reed had traveled on a flight from Las Vegas, Nevada and was on a layover before he continued on to Charlotte, North Carolina. The discovery was made after his luggage was mistakenly routed to the baggage claim instead of his plane to N.C..
Inside his checked-in luggage, authorities found a fully loaded semi-automatic handgun, a loaded magazine with extra ammunition, a fully armed grenade, bomb making materials which included military fuses, electronic boxes and switches, and model rocket engines. The TSA says that it is allowed to have a gun in your checked luggage, so long as it is declared at the gate before checking it in, something Reed did not do.
Reed was arrested for possession of a concealed weapon and unlawful possession of a "infernal machine," says the Boston Globe. He is being held on US$50,000 bail and will be in court on Tuesday. It is not yet known why Reed was in possession of the items and an investigation is ongoing.
Reed is stationed at Camp Lejeune, located in N.C..
Huh.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 16, 2009, 04:07:13 PM
But I don't think that would describe this protest. Or it would just be people who voted for Ron Paul.
The Ron Pauliacs were definitely at those protests.
Quote from: Valmy on April 20, 2009, 08:44:25 AM
The Ron Pauliacs were definitely at those protests.
Yeah but I think there were other, also slightly crazy people there too :p
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2009, 02:33:12 AM
"infernal machine"
:o
Quick, someone alert Dr. Jones! :outback:
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2009, 02:33:12 AM
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/US_Marine_arrested_at_Logan_International_Airport_for_possessing_bomb_making_material
QuoteJustin Reed, 22, a corporal in the United States Marines has been arrested at Logan International Airport in Boston, Massachusetts after security personnel found a gun along with bomb making material inside his checked-in luggage.
According to Transportation Security Administration (TSA), Reed had traveled on a flight from Las Vegas, Nevada and was on a layover before he continued on to Charlotte, North Carolina. The discovery was made after his luggage was mistakenly routed to the baggage claim instead of his plane to N.C..
Inside his checked-in luggage, authorities found a fully loaded semi-automatic handgun, a loaded magazine with extra ammunition, a fully armed grenade, bomb making materials which included military fuses, electronic boxes and switches, and model rocket engines. The TSA says that it is allowed to have a gun in your checked luggage, so long as it is declared at the gate before checking it in, something Reed did not do.
Reed was arrested for possession of a concealed weapon and unlawful possession of a "infernal machine," says the Boston Globe. He is being held on US$50,000 bail and will be in court on Tuesday. It is not yet known why Reed was in possession of the items and an investigation is ongoing.
Reed is stationed at Camp Lejeune, located in N.C..
Huh.
Way to insult our veterans, you damn TSA traitors. :mad:
He was just planing a big party!
Quote from: Razgovory on April 16, 2009, 04:28:28 PM
Quote from: Martinus on April 16, 2009, 04:07:55 PM
Speaking of comparisons to Poland, American anarcho-liberalism flourished because you guys faced no real challenge on your continent - unlike, say, Poland, sandwiched between Russia and Prussia, where our anarcho-liberalism led to our downfall.
Do you think that in the age of globalisation, when China or Russia are much "closer" now (enough to be a threat) you guys will need to change your attitude or succumb like the Polish Commonwealth of old?
Somehow I don't think Russia and China will be partioning the US anytime soon.
I'm sure that Martinus believes that they will. Slavs are notorious for believing in all kinds of ridiculous things. Wasn't there that Russian historian saying that it would happen? I'm sure Martinus believes that whole-heartedly.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 20, 2009, 02:33:12 AM
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/US_Marine_arrested_at_Logan_International_Airport_for_possessing_bomb_making_material
QuoteJustin Reed, 22, a corporal in the United States Marines has been arrested at Logan International Airport in Boston, Massachusetts after security personnel found a gun along with bomb making material inside his checked-in luggage.
According to Transportation Security Administration (TSA), Reed had traveled on a flight from Las Vegas, Nevada and was on a layover before he continued on to Charlotte, North Carolina. The discovery was made after his luggage was mistakenly routed to the baggage claim instead of his plane to N.C..
Inside his checked-in luggage, authorities found a fully loaded semi-automatic handgun, a loaded magazine with extra ammunition, a fully armed grenade, bomb making materials which included military fuses, electronic boxes and switches, and model rocket engines. The TSA says that it is allowed to have a gun in your checked luggage, so long as it is declared at the gate before checking it in, something Reed did not do.
Reed was arrested for possession of a concealed weapon and unlawful possession of a "infernal machine," says the Boston Globe. He is being held on US$50,000 bail and will be in court on Tuesday. It is not yet known why Reed was in possession of the items and an investigation is ongoing.
Reed is stationed at Camp Lejeune, located in N.C..
Huh.
Looks like airline incompetance finally paid off!