I have been wrapped up in the boers lately. There is not much literature to read on the subject, but my mind dwells upon them even so.
I wonder if they will ever achieve a volkstaat in the northern cape? Will the ANC really drive the country into the ground in a sucession of one-party state elections, and the afrikaners lie helpless? The AWB recently reinstated, but I cannot imagine that is the way forward.
I was just wondering what languish thought, although I can imagine.
Edit: I have been mucking about reading about afrikaner calvinism alot. Protestantism uncorrupted by the enlightenment is weird to think about. I need to do something, religiously. I feel it is an indefensible lapse in my identity as a Southerner to not profess a protestant faith, even if I cannot embrace the tenets as earnestly as I should. I am afraid, however, that if I believe in Christianity, I will believe in it very much, and it could distract me from politics too much.
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 27, 2009, 07:04:17 AMThe AWB recently reinstated, but I cannot imagine that is the way forward.
Yeah, because having this kind of guys around is really comforting.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cccb.org%2Frcs_gene%2F24.57-1991_-_awb_meeting.jpg&hash=a580eb8b427c51ec52134c144fed6a42ef94e484)
QuoteProtestantism uncorrupted by the enlightenment is weird to think about.
The wording "uncorrupted by the enlightement" sends shivers down my spine. Do they still burn witches?
QuoteI am afraid, however, that if I believe in Christianity, I will believe in it very much, and it could distract me from politics too much.
Because clearly you're making leaps and bounds in your political career, of course.
The Boers are extinct as a meaningful political force. They deserve no less, for having resisted the great civilizing force of Britain.
Quote from: The Larch on October 27, 2009, 07:26:41 AM
The wording "uncorrupted by the enlightement" sends shivers down my spine. Do they still burn witches?
Calvinism "uncorrupted by the Enlightenment" is the Taliban, barring a few disagreements about terminology.
Quote from: The Larch on October 27, 2009, 07:26:41 AM
Yeah, because having this kind of guys around is really comforting.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cccb.org%2Frcs_gene%2F24.57-1991_-_awb_meeting.jpg&hash=a580eb8b427c51ec52134c144fed6a42ef94e484)
You got to admire their subtlety.
Hair Club for Men could do some brisk business in South Africa.
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 27, 2009, 07:04:17 AM
I wonder if they will ever achieve a volkstaat in the northern cape?
Never. Their only chance was when they were still in power. They should have relocated every white to the Western Cape where they would have been a majority and created an African Singapore. Now they should just prepare themselves for the inevitable genocide.
Most Afrikaans speakers look like this these days.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F9%2F95%2FColoured-family.jpg&hash=3db80ae9c46f71dad2941655c80413c55238e58c)
My boss just got back from a 10-day business/vacation trip to South Africa. She was amazed by "how modern" it is & that you could drink the water. I suspect she didn't know much about the country before visiting.
South Africa is an exercise in hope followed by disappointment and wasted potential. It's best not to think about it at all.
That picture is a good argument against race mixing.
OTOH:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fyouthoughtso.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F11%2Fmariah-carey1.jpg&hash=cfe755a1dc0710e16f2b2ab3b5949e6f8797768c)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.babble.com%2Ffamecrawler%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F07%2Fshakira.jpg&hash=321e288b3ed20aa2bb77b4bc46b3640c4c2feb53)
Wow Lettow. You're not even trying to pretend your admiration for the south has anything to do with "heritage" or "states rights" anymore. It really is all about race with you.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 27, 2009, 12:28:05 PM
That picture is a good argument against race mixing.
OTOH:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fyouthouawler%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F07%2Fshakira.jpg&hash=e4e561c95ed515149dc4beb075eebd7f6add54e6)
It is a bit isn't it.
Those women are mixed race? They look very white to me.
Quote from: Tyr on October 27, 2009, 01:15:06 PM
Those women are mixed race? They look very white to me.
Yep. Mariah is black/white mix and Shakira is hispanic/Arab.
Quote from: Tyr on October 27, 2009, 01:15:06 PM
Those women are mixed race? They look very white to me.
The last one is Spanish, Italian, and Lebanese.
Quote from: Barrister on October 27, 2009, 01:05:00 PM
It really is all about race with you.
Are you surprised?
Barrister, that's what you draw from this? It isnt true at all.
The boers are an agrarian, conservative protestant people with a huge african problem on their hands, that has led to their being reviled by the entire world. 19th century boer culture is a remarkable dichtonomy of almost anarchic libertarian pastoralism and intense social controls and moralism.
What's more, barrister, I am of huguenot stock. But for accident of emigration, I could have been there rather than here. Not just in the South and the Boer's shared resistances against modernity, industrialism and a 'progressive' empire, but also in blood, I feel a kinship with them.
Of course, go on assuming its just about race if you'd like. It's nothing of the sort, although race of course places a part- because race is inescapable down here, and there as well. Race is present in all things, from the moment you wake up to when you go to bed. It is part of our cultural landscape.
Edit: And I never said the South had anything to do with 'heritage'. That is defeatist talk- my love of the South is based on the South's continuing identity, which embraces the future and the pesent as well as the past. The South not only was but is, and shall be. It is a nation larger than canada, and destined to play a greater role on the world stage, not least because of it's commitment to the 'state's rights' you look down your nose on as some sort of code word for racial oppression.
Quote from: miglia on October 27, 2009, 03:32:06 PM
No, it's not.
Well, if you assume he means by population and includes people who consider themselves (United States of) Americans, then sure it's bigger.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 27, 2009, 03:36:12 PM
Well, if you assume he means by population and includes people who consider themselves (United States of) Americans, then sure it's bigger.
Don't forget you have to mulitply the number of blacks by 2/3.
Soyez sage, Lettow...
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdigitalfilmmaker.net%2FBang%2Fimages%2FBopExecution1.jpg&hash=c9f67aaa332dcf5231670d69d6ac6abc45e20d96)
What are you doing in my country?
-- Ontlametse Bernstein Menyatsoe, 3/11/94
Everyone knows about the Bophuthatswana incident. Of course, the story wouldnt have got out if the soldiers had succeeding in killing the journalists like they tried to do.
Edit: the query doesnt make any damn sense anyway. They were rebelling to join SA, while the AWB was (out of its own self-interest) trying to maintain the integrity of the government there. The 'country' the man makes reference to he is working to destroy, but whatever.
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 27, 2009, 03:03:55 PM
...and destined to play a greater role on the world stage, not least because of it's commitment to the 'state's rights' you look down your nose on as some sort of code word for racial oppression.
But isn't that a bad thing, if it is destined to play a greater role on the world stage because of provincialism and ignorance?
Quote from: Neil on October 27, 2009, 08:16:06 AM
The Boers are extinct as a meaningful political force. They deserve no less, for having resisted the great civilizing force of Britain.
Hmmmm....Kitchener or Botha, De Wit and De La Rey. Decisions, decisions.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 27, 2009, 09:07:27 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 27, 2009, 08:16:06 AM
The Boers are extinct as a meaningful political force. They deserve no less, for having resisted the great civilizing force of Britain.
Hmmmm....Kitchener or Botha, De Wit and De La Rey. Decisions, decisions.
K of Chaos was ass, but Buller was the man.
Quote from: Neil on October 27, 2009, 09:25:36 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 27, 2009, 09:07:27 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 27, 2009, 08:16:06 AM
The Boers are extinct as a meaningful political force. They deserve no less, for having resisted the great civilizing force of Britain.
Hmmmm....Kitchener or Botha, De Wit and De La Rey. Decisions, decisions.
K of Chaos was ass, but Buller was the man.
Of course he was. Poor guy. Set up for failure.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 27, 2009, 09:26:45 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 27, 2009, 09:25:36 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 27, 2009, 09:07:27 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 27, 2009, 08:16:06 AM
The Boers are extinct as a meaningful political force. They deserve no less, for having resisted the great civilizing force of Britain.
Hmmmm....Kitchener or Botha, De Wit and De La Rey. Decisions, decisions.
K of Chaos was ass, but Buller was the man.
Of course he was. Poor guy. Set up for failure.
And then when he eventually succeeded, the media and the government stabbed him in the back.
Besides, Kitchener got his in end.
@ lettow :lmfao:
The South Africa thing shows no signs of abating. I had an argument with the missus about the feasibility of moving there.
(And yes, katmai, I know. Honestly, I dont know why I stick around here. I never treat anyone else here in such a manner. Maybe one day y'all wont have lettow to kick around.)
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 12:21:32 AM
The South Africa thing shows no signs of abating. I had an argument with the missus about the feasibility of moving there.
(And yes, katmai, I know. Honestly, I dont know why I stick around here. I never treat anyone else here in such a manner. Maybe one day y'all wont have lettow to kick around.)
You'll get no sympathy from me.
Quote(And yes, katmai, I know. Honestly, I dont know why I stick around here. I never treat anyone else here in such a manner. Maybe one day y'all wont have lettow to kick around.)
Hypothesis: I think Lettow wants to feel victimised for his political opinions - that way he can tell himself people's dislike of him is because of his politics. Just like how emos, who Lettow appear to sympathise with, judging by his avatar, style themselves in terrible ways so they can tell themselves people dislike them
for their style.
Thoughts?
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 12:21:32 AM
The South Africa thing shows no signs of abating. I had an argument with the missus about the feasibility of moving there.
(And yes, katmai, I know. Honestly, I dont know why I stick around here. I never treat anyone else here in such a manner. Maybe one day y'all wont have lettow to kick around.)
Lettow, you try to defend a system of beliefs that most of us find morally repugnant and disgusting. Those beliefs do no deserve respect. Why do you wonder about the response you get when you want to discuss disgusting philosophies?
The vast majority of people I know find homosexuality morally repugnant and disgusting. They do not make it painfully obvious, or mistreat homosexuals because of it. And, that moral repugnancy is really strange to me anyway. I find communism a sinister, terrifying evil, but I have never said a word derogatory to Ide on the subject. I ever leave Queequeg alone (for the most part..) regarding his Russophilia, despite viewing Russia in general as a sinister, terrifying evil.
The South does not have to try hard to feel victimised. The South -is- victimised, a reviled colonial holding that is exploited and given no thanks or thought of recompense. We provide labour and raw materials to further an empire that has no commonality with our interests and beliefs.
Miglia- the avatar is just the missus :mellow:
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 01:56:44 AM
The South does not have to try hard to feel victimised. The South -is- victimised, a reviled colonial holding that is exploited and given no thanks or thought of recompense. We provide labour and raw materials to further an empire that has no commonality with our interests and beliefs.
:lmfao:
And, I do not believe I have ever replied to someone with nothing but laughter.
Because that would be rude :)
I meant to be rude. Because your comments deserve only derisive laughter.
Such an attitude deserves reciprocation. I will not do so, however, because I see no reason to throw away what little good will I have by dint of being consistently deferential and polite for the sake of sinking to your level.
Edit: you know, I like to think nobody here would be so rude in person. It is amazing the boldness people get from the internet's comparative anonymity. Or maybe you all would, infact, and I am just spoiled from growing up in a polite and kind part of the world.
Quote from: miglia on October 28, 2009, 01:43:39 AM
Quote(And yes, katmai, I know. Honestly, I dont know why I stick around here. I never treat anyone else here in such a manner. Maybe one day y'all wont have lettow to kick around.)
Hypothesis: I think Lettow wants to feel victimised for his political opinions - that way he can tell himself people's dislike of him is because of his politics. Just like how emos, who Lettow appear to sympathise with, judging by his avatar, style themselves in terrible ways so they can tell themselves people dislike them for their style.
Thoughts?
I will explain further what I meant by this: He is too much of a caricature. I can not take him seriously.
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 01:56:44 AM
The vast majority of people I know find homosexuality disgusting.
Only when it's two men. :lol:
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 02:08:00 AM
Edit: you know, I like to think nobody here would be so rude in person.
No, I can be just as rude in person. Ask around.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 28, 2009, 05:30:31 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 02:08:00 AM
Edit: you know, I like to think nobody here would be so rude in person.
No, I can be just as rude in person. Ask around.
it's true, between him and grumbler i was crying like a baby at gettysburg.
Quote from: katmai on October 28, 2009, 05:34:19 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 28, 2009, 05:30:31 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 02:08:00 AM
Edit: you know, I like to think nobody here would be so rude in person.
No, I can be just as rude in person. Ask around.
it's true, between him and grumbler i was crying like a baby at gettysburg.
Lolz, "Little Round Toppings"
Quote from: Jaron on October 28, 2009, 12:51:02 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 12:21:32 AM
The South Africa thing shows no signs of abating. I had an argument with the missus about the feasibility of moving there.
(And yes, katmai, I know. Honestly, I dont know why I stick around here. I never treat anyone else here in such a manner. Maybe one day y'all wont have lettow to kick around.)
You'll get no sympathy from me.
:lol:
Ah, MB!
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 12:21:32 AM
The South Africa thing shows no signs of abating. I had an argument with the missus about the feasibility of moving there.
(And yes, katmai, I know. Honestly, I dont know why I stick around here. I never treat anyone else here in such a manner. Maybe one day y'all wont have lettow to kick around.)
I thought it was your fairy tail vision of merry olde Ireland you wanted to move to?
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 01:56:44 AM
The vast majority of people I know find homosexuality morally repugnant and disgusting. They do not make it painfully obvious, or mistreat homosexuals because of it. And, that moral repugnancy is really strange to me anyway. I find communism a sinister, terrifying evil, but I have never said a word derogatory to Ide on the subject. I ever leave Queequeg alone (for the most part..) regarding his Russophilia, despite viewing Russia in general as a sinister, terrifying evil.
Homosexuals deserve your derision. Well, Martinus does at least. Ide isn't really a communist, he's just a kid trying to figure things out. Spellus embraces cultures that aren't his own as an affectation, the more obscure the better. He's not evil so much as he is silly and ignorant.
QuoteThe South does not have to try hard to feel victimised. The South -is- victimised, a reviled colonial holding that is exploited and given no thanks or thought of recompense. We provide labour and raw materials to further an empire that has no commonality with our interests and beliefs.
The South has been defeated for over a century and fully assimilated for several decades now. The unique thing about the Southern people was the planter aristocracy, the agricultural lifestyle and the racial diktat of slaveholding. The war eliminated slaveholding, industrialization eliminated the agricultural lifestyle and impoverished the aristocracy, and a half-century of urban living has dulled the edge of Southern racism. Even fundamentalist Christianity isn't a uniquely Southern affectation.
No, the Southern culture as a mass movement is extinct. The American Southeast is just another outpost of the mass culture that emanates from New York and Los Angeles now.
Quote from: Neil on October 28, 2009, 08:43:18 AM
No, the Southern culture as a mass movement is extinct. The American Southeast is just another outpost of the mass culture that emanates from New York and Los Angeles now.
While I agree with you on the first point, I feel obliged to point out that a large part of that mass culture is music, where Southern influence predominates.
Just when you're beginning to think Neil is about nothing but smartass one-liners, he comes out with something that is reasonably well-argued. :)
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 12:21:32 AM
The South Africa thing shows no signs of abating. I had an argument with the missus about the feasibility of moving there.
Oh, you enjoy seeing your girlfriend raped? Even the police will rape white women there
http://www.news24.com/Content/SouthAfrica/News/1059/722052ef91364781b2ba6c52856794dc/27-10-2009-08-13/Cops_in_unifor
QuoteJohannesburg - A mother-of-three was allegedly "repeatedly" raped by two uniformed policemen in Kempton Park in the early hours of Sunday morning.
When he heard about it, Martie Olivier's husband, Sarel, went to the Kempton Park police station and assaulted various police officers on duty before being brought under control.
He said they were unable to lay a charge of rape later that day because the police refused to take their statements.
Although rape victims are not normally identified, the couple gave permission for their names to be published.
Nightmare
The couple's nightmare apparently began shortly after midnight. Olivier said he and his wife, 29, were at a braai at his parents' house in Birch Acres on Saturday night, after which they went to a nearby pub for a drink.
Olivier said that on his way home, he drove into a driveway and out again as he made a U-turn. A marked police van suddenly stopped in front of the couple's Toyota Run-X.
Two men in police uniform climbed out of the van and moved to the driver's side of their car before yanking the door open, he said. They then allegedly threw him into the back of the van without explanation.
"One of the policemen approached me and asked what I was prepared to give them in exchange for my husband's release," said Martie.
She gave him the R400 she had on her.
However, the man asked: "Do you really love your husband? Is there nothing more you can do?" He then allegedly climbed into the driver's seat of the Toyota and drove toward the Kempton Park police station. The police van followed, she said.
Olivier, who was in the police van, said: "About 200m from the police station I noticed the car pulling off the road, but I thought nothing of it. It's the police after all."
At the police station, the policeman driving the van opened the doors at the back and told him he had been caught driving under the influence, but that he was free to go.
The other policeman arrived shortly afterwards in the Toyota with Olivier's wife in the passenger's seat. When Olivier climbed into their car, she told him she had been raped.
Traumatised
"She appeared traumatised and I could see her underwear had been torn," he said.
It was then that he attacked police officers with bare fists. Olivier's hand was still bandaged on Monday.
"When I returned to the car, my wife was gone. I thought she had run away."
She allegedly lost consciousness when one of the policemen slammed her head into the dashboard while her husband was inside the police station. There were two policemen in the car with her when her husband was inside the station.
She said she came to on a lounge floor in an unfamiliar house. Her next recollection was of a security guard who woke her in a flowerbed at Boston Business College.
"He asked me why the police had dropped me off there. I couldn't give him an answer," she said.
After hours of searching, Olivier said he saw his wife in a traumatised condition walking from the Boston Business College at "exactly 07:20".
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 02:08:00 AM
Edit: you know, I like to think nobody here would be so rude in person. It is amazing the boldness people get from the internet's comparative anonymity. Or maybe you all would, infact, and I am just spoiled from growing up in a polite and kind part of the world.
If I met someone in real life who started spouting the racist bullshit you do, you're damn right I would call them on it and not worry about being "rude".
I love how they put in all those quotation marks and allegedlies in the article to make it sound like a hoax.
Well. The Boers did themselves in when they let the subhumans take control of their country. And then they top that off with letting the negroes seize control.
Awful business.
Quote from: Neil on October 28, 2009, 08:43:18 AM
The South has been defeated for over a century and fully assimilated for several decades now. The unique thing about the Southern people was the planter aristocracy, the agricultural lifestyle and the racial diktat of slaveholding. The war eliminated slaveholding, industrialization eliminated the agricultural lifestyle and impoverished the aristocracy, and a half-century of urban living has dulled the edge of Southern racism. Even fundamentalist Christianity isn't a uniquely Southern affectation.
No, the Southern culture as a mass movement is extinct. The American Southeast is just another outpost of the mass culture that emanates from New York and Los Angeles now.
Sort of funny this is obvious even to a Canadian yet Lettow cannot see it even when he lives there.
Denial is powerfull.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 27, 2009, 03:37:43 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 27, 2009, 03:36:12 PM
Well, if you assume he means by population and includes people who consider themselves (United States of) Americans, then sure it's bigger.
Don't forget you have to mulitply the number of blacks by 2/3.
And then age them appropriately.
This low level genocide against whites, especially against Boer farmers, will not occur without retaliation. The Boers will lose, but the daily murder and rape of whites is getting ridiculous. Even the ANC Youth League president Malema claims he will not only defeat the settlers, but the children and the children of the settlers, and President Zuma sings "bring me my machine gun"
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 01:56:44 AM
The South does not have to try hard to feel victimised. The South -is- victimised, a reviled colonial holding that is exploited and given no thanks or thought of recompense. We provide labour and raw materials to further an empire that has no commonality with our interests and beliefs.
:lmfao: I don't feel victimized, reviled, like I am living in a colonial holding, nor do I think I am owed more thanks and recompense than I get, so I am afraid your thesis is all about you, and not at all about the South.
Here's a good Afrikaans song, about the Border War
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PxkJzcTHUU
Another by Bok van Blerk about De La Ray
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHoH7KsYDyI
Quote from: katmai on October 28, 2009, 05:34:19 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 28, 2009, 05:30:31 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 02:08:00 AM
Edit: you know, I like to think nobody here would be so rude in person.
No, I can be just as rude in person. Ask around.
it's true, between him and grumbler i was crying like a baby at gettysburg.
:yes:
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on October 28, 2009, 12:09:04 PM
This low level genocide against whites, especially against Boer farmers, will not occur without retaliation. The Boers will lose, but the daily murder and rape of whites is getting ridiculous. Even the ANC Youth League president Malema claims he will not only defeat the settlers, but the children and the children of the settlers, and President Zuma sings "bring me my machine gun"
Wow, that...sucks.
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 01:56:44 AM
The vast majority of people I know find homosexuality morally repugnant and disgusting. They do not make it painfully obvious, or mistreat homosexuals because of it.
I do. I mistreat Martinus all the time.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 28, 2009, 09:02:21 AM
Quote from: Neil on October 28, 2009, 08:43:18 AM
No, the Southern culture as a mass movement is extinct. The American Southeast is just another outpost of the mass culture that emanates from New York and Los Angeles now.
While I agree with you on the first point, I feel obliged to point out that a large part of that mass culture is music, where Southern influence predominates.
I wouldn't say 'predominates', but it certainly is influential in the field of music. However, at this point the music scene has been assimilated, and even country music has gone rock and roll.
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 02:08:00 AM
Such an attitude deserves reciprocation. I will not do so, however, because I see no reason to throw away what little good will I have by dint of being consistently deferential and polite for the sake of sinking to your level.
Edit: you know, I like to think nobody here would be so rude in person. It is amazing the boldness people get from the internet's comparative anonymity. Or maybe you all would, infact, and I am just spoiled from growing up in a polite and kind part of the world.
Lettow, you need to grow a thick skin.
You are not going to get anywhere in life with that attitud.
Somebody laugh at you, you laugh back at him.
Somebody punch you in the face, you blow his head off.
Grow stronger and stop whinning.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on October 28, 2009, 12:09:04 PM
This low level genocide against whites, especially against Boer farmers, will not occur without retaliation. The Boers will lose, but the daily murder and rape of whites is getting ridiculous. Even the ANC Youth League president Malema claims he will not only defeat the settlers, but the children and the children of the settlers, and President Zuma sings "bring me my machine gun"
Did anyone have any illusions that it would be any other way? There is nobody who is going to lift a finger to help the Afrikaaners, and they themselves surrendered their defence to the very people who seek their destruction.
Jeff Davis was a fuckhead that ran his country into the ground.
Quote from: Neil on October 28, 2009, 01:56:07 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on October 28, 2009, 12:09:04 PM
This low level genocide against whites, especially against Boer farmers, will not occur without retaliation. The Boers will lose, but the daily murder and rape of whites is getting ridiculous. Even the ANC Youth League president Malema claims he will not only defeat the settlers, but the children and the children of the settlers, and President Zuma sings "bring me my machine gun"
Did anyone have any illusions that it would be any other way? There is nobody who is going to lift a finger to help the Afrikaaners, and they themselves surrendered their defence to the very people who seek their destruction.
I started several threads about the topic back in the day. Some of you might remember.
I don't care about South Africa anymore. The people I knew over there have moved to the UK or to Israel, and the Boers, well, I never really liked the Boers.
Quote from: Siege on October 28, 2009, 02:05:18 PM
I don't care about South Africa anymore. The people I knew over there have moved to the UK or to Israel,
Just the Jews though. Israel has a pretty restrictive immigration policy.
Actually a lot of South Africans moved to Canada as well. Nothing makes my poor heart melt more than a South African girl with that accent....
Grumbler, it does not follow that because you do not -feel- exploited, that you are not. The self-identity of the Southerner is among the lowest of all nationalities in the world, which makes things nigh-impossible.
Neil, you are largely right, as you always are. The South has suffered what are probably irreversible losses. Much of what the South was could not be remade, but much of it should not be. The South was not perfect. However, that which is admirable about the american republic to me, and still deserving in life, are aspects of the South, and I feel I have a calling to push for my country even if the outcome is pre-ordained against me.
As for the Afrikaners, I think they arent so doomed as y'all think. They may get something going in the western cape- that isnt just pie in the sky. There has been no mass movement yet, but it doesnt take much of one to get things off, and boers have trekked before. It defies reason that the afrikaners will just sit there and let themselves be wiped from the map, and their youth seem to be awakening.
I appreciate on their behalf your sympathy for them, though :)
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 02:28:52 PM
Grumbler, it does not follow that because you do not -feel- exploited, that you are not. The self-identity of the Southerner is among the lowest of all nationalities in the world, which makes things nigh-impossible.
Actually, the nationality of the Southerner isn't lowest in the world, it is non-existent. There were many things Southerners thought of themselves as over the years, but a nation wasn't one of them.
Well they are Celts.
Where are they going to trek to? I'm sure the ANC would love the excuse to exterminate them all though.
Quote from: The Brain on October 28, 2009, 02:42:27 PM
Well they are Celts.
A Celtic underclass and a WASP aristocracy, which had nothing in common other than a fear of change.
Quote from: grumbler on October 28, 2009, 02:41:04 PM
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 02:28:52 PM
Grumbler, it does not follow that because you do not -feel- exploited, that you are not. The self-identity of the Southerner is among the lowest of all nationalities in the world, which makes things nigh-impossible.
Actually, the nationality of the Southerner isn't lowest in the world, it is non-existent. There were many things Southerners thought of themselves as over the years, but a nation wasn't one of them.
Well, some did (and do), but that vast majority self-identify as 'American'.
Quote from: Neil on October 28, 2009, 01:52:41 PM
I wouldn't say 'predominates', but it certainly is influential in the field of music. However, at this point the music scene has been assimilated, and even country music has gone rock and roll.
Rock & Roll was the chief genre I was thinking of, though country, jazz, and the blues also developed in the South.
Original Inductees in Rock & Roll Hall of Fame:
Buddy Holly
Chuck Berry
Elvis Presley
Fats Domino
James Brown
Jerry Lee Lewis
Little Richard
Ray Charles
Sam Cooke
The Everly Brothers
The Everly Brothers were from Iowa and Chuck Berry from St. Louis, the rest were all Southerners.
Shut up, Peter Lettow.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 28, 2009, 02:49:04 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 28, 2009, 01:52:41 PM
I wouldn't say 'predominates', but it certainly is influential in the field of music. However, at this point the music scene has been assimilated, and even country music has gone rock and roll.
Rock & Roll was the chief genre I was thinking of, though country, jazz, and the blues also developed in the South.
Original Inductees in Rock & Roll Hall of Fame:
Buddy Holly
Chuck Berry
Elvis Presley
Fats Domino
James Brown
Jerry Lee Lewis
Little Richard
Ray Charles
Sam Cooke
The Everly Brothers
The Everly Brothers were from Iowa and Chuck Berry from St. Louis, the rest were all Southerners.
But that time is over now. Rock and roll has been fully absorbed into the country as a whole for 3 decades and change, and there are many other influences on today's pop music. The British Invasion, the Northwest Sound of the 90s, California synthpop, urban hiphop, and so on.
Neil- the northwest cape is thinly populated and has nothing worth having. The Constitution guarantees the afrikaners the right to seperate there, if enough of them move there and choose to seperate.
Which I think they will, eventually.
Quote from: Josephus on October 28, 2009, 02:19:21 PM
Actually a lot of South Africans moved to Canada as well. Nothing makes my poor heart melt more than a South African girl with that accent....
Amen tsovaritch.
Quote from: Neil on October 28, 2009, 02:56:52 PM
But that time is over now. Rock and roll has been fully absorbed into the country as a whole for 3 decades and change, and there are many other influences on today's pop music. The British Invasion, the Northwest Sound of the 90s, California synthpop, urban hiphop, and so on.
Sure. I agree with you that our culture is integrated, it's just not all being produced in NY and LA.
As for which part of the country is most responsible for driving music NOW, I'll leave it to people who care about that crap. Southerners, especially but not exclusively Southern blacks, created the great forms of the 20th century.
Quote from: Josephus on October 28, 2009, 02:19:21 PM
Actually a lot of South Africans moved to Canada as well. Nothing makes my poor heart melt more than a South African girl with that accent....
That's one of the few Europeanish accents that do not resonate with me. Not sure why, 'cuz I'm generally a sucker for that type of thing.
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 03:02:21 PM
Neil- the northwest cape is thinly populated and has nothing worth having. The Constitution guarantees the afrikaners the right to seperate there, if enough of them move there and choose to seperate.
Which I think they will, eventually.
Subsaharan Africa isn't populated with people who are known for respecting the law without the application of force. How many battalions do the Afrikaaners possess?
If they wanted to maintain the option to not be the victims of genocide, while the rest of the world cheers on, they should have held onto The Bomb.
Quote from: derspiess on October 28, 2009, 04:12:31 PM
That's one of the few Europeanish accents that do not resonate with me. Not sure why, 'cuz I'm generally a sucker for that type of thing.
No wood from watching Lethal Weapon XVII?
All South African whites should rise up and move to the Cape.
Quote from: derspiess on October 28, 2009, 04:12:31 PM
Quote from: Josephus on October 28, 2009, 02:19:21 PM
Actually a lot of South Africans moved to Canada as well. Nothing makes my poor heart melt more than a South African girl with that accent....
That's one of the few Europeanish accents that do not resonate with me. Not sure why, 'cuz I'm generally a sucker for that type of thing.
Europeanish? :s
Its Australian I always get it muddled with.
well Neil, the Afrikaners are the most armed group per capita in South Africa- And, the world would not cheer on if they denied the Afrikaners their constitutional rights to self-govern in a shithole. The ill will afrikaners earn through apartheid only goes so far.
I think the boers could hold them back in a military conflict, though.
Quote from: Tyr on October 28, 2009, 05:20:33 PM
Its Australian I always get it muddled with.
To me it comes across as a cross between High English and Aussie. Note, I imagine there's plenty of South African accents, I'm referring to the one used by the white elite who fled the country like the plague.
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 28, 2009, 05:23:08 PM
well Neil, the Afrikaners are the most armed group per capita in South Africa- And, the world would not cheer on if they denied the Afrikaners their constitutional rights to self-govern in a shithole. The ill will afrikaners earn through apartheid only goes so far.
I think the boers could hold them back in a military conflict, though.
The blacks control the army. That will allow them to slaughter the whites. Remember, they won't be going after combatants. They'll be trying to slaughter civilians.
If whites try and create their own state in South Africa, constitutional or not, the usual suspects will go off about colonialism, apartheid and racism, and they will support the blacks regaining control of the territory, which will involve the liquidation of those Afrikaaners who don't have the resources or smarts to have fled the country.
Quote from: Neil on October 28, 2009, 07:08:55 PM
If whites try and create their own state in South Africa, constitutional or not, the usual suspects will go off about colonialism, apartheid and racism, and they will support the blacks regaining control of the territory, which will involve the liquidation of those Afrikaaners who don't have the resources or smarts to have fled the country.
But think of all the new Paul Simon albums we'll get.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 28, 2009, 07:42:09 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 28, 2009, 07:08:55 PM
If whites try and create their own state in South Africa, constitutional or not, the usual suspects will go off about colonialism, apartheid and racism, and they will support the blacks regaining control of the territory, which will involve the liquidation of those Afrikaaners who don't have the resources or smarts to have fled the country.
But think of all the new Paul Simon albums we'll get.
I'd be willing to sacrifice the entire population of Africa to get another album on the level of Graceland.
Quote from: Josephus on October 28, 2009, 05:40:11 PM
To me it comes across as a cross between High English and Aussie. Note, I imagine there's plenty of South African accents, I'm referring to the one used by the white elite who fled the country like the plague.
I used to work with a South African broad who had basically the most irritating accent I've ever heard. I have no idea what flavor of accent it might have been, but she had an English-sounding name and surname (which was Witten). Appearance-wise, she looked to have both Caucasian and African ancestry.
Quote from: Siege on October 28, 2009, 01:54:36 PM
Lettow, you need to grow a thick skin.
You are not going to get anywhere in life with that attitud.
Somebody laugh at you, you laugh back at him.
Somebody punch you in the face, you blow his head off.
Grow stronger and stop whinning.
Were you trying deliberately to be ironic? :unsure:
Quote from: Neil on October 28, 2009, 08:07:05 PM
I'd be willing to sacrifice the entire population of Africa to get another album on the level of Graceland.
Amen!
I'd sacrifice all confederatetards to get Chevy Chase and Paul Simon in a video again.
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 29, 2009, 05:47:15 PM
I'd sacrifice all confederatetards to get Chevy Chase and Paul Simon in a video again.
Is their appearance really that cheap to you?
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 29, 2009, 11:38:08 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 29, 2009, 05:47:15 PM
I'd sacrifice all confederatetards to get Chevy Chase and Paul Simon in a video again.
Is their appearance really that cheap to you?
Yes. A Klondike bar would also suffice.
While we're on the topic, I found this nice little blog on the subject.
It describes the actions of some of those poor oppressed, exciting africans.
Heads up though, before you click it, the imagery is very graphic, and in most instances not safe for work. I cannot stress this enough. NSFW.
http://www.zasucks.com/?p=6151
That anyone could believe this is the kind of people who will "enrich" our culture baffles me. The stupidity borders on the criminally insane, or satanically evil. I simply don't know what to make of it.
Oh well. The Boers only have themselves to blame for giving in to the pressure to hand power over to the blacks, and now they reap the consequences.
Quote from: Slargos on October 31, 2009, 06:03:53 AM
While we're on the topic, I found this nice little blog on the subject
Thanks for the link, Slags; I hdn't had my "disembowelment through the rectum" pic quota yet this morning. :hurl:
Can we not have some of the text posted in? I'm realy not in the mood for the photo mentioned above...
Havey they copied/pasted those images from rotten.com? I'm not quite sure they're all authentic South African. I also love how none of the depicted victims is black.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 31, 2009, 06:36:02 AM
Quote from: Slargos on October 31, 2009, 06:03:53 AM
While we're on the topic, I found this nice little blog on the subject
Thanks for the link, Slags; I hdn't had my "disembowelment through the rectum" pic quota yet this morning. :hurl:
It's not like I didn't warn you.
But yeah, that one was particularly nasty.
Quote from: Slargos on October 31, 2009, 06:03:53 AM
Oh well. The Boers only have themselves to blame for giving in to the pressure to hand power over to the blacks, and now they reap the consequences.
:huh:
What should they have done?
Quote from: Queequeg on October 31, 2009, 12:06:02 PM
Quote from: Slargos on October 31, 2009, 06:03:53 AM
Oh well. The Boers only have themselves to blame for giving in to the pressure to hand power over to the blacks, and now they reap the consequences.
:huh:
What should they have done?
There are several things they could have done. They could have fought, they could have deported their black population, or they could have gone with a two-state solution and held onto their nukes.
Each of these options has serious economic consequences. But then again, so does being expropriated and then either murdered or forced to flee the country.
Quote from: Queequeg on October 31, 2009, 12:06:02 PM
Quote from: Slargos on October 31, 2009, 06:03:53 AM
Oh well. The Boers only have themselves to blame for giving in to the pressure to hand power over to the blacks, and now they reap the consequences.
:huh:
What should they have done?
Anything is better than being annihilated as a people.
In a best-case scenario this happens by cultural annihilation if you wish to ignore the low-intensity genocide that's going on right now.
One MILLION white south africans have already fled the country, and whichever way you wish to rose-tint it, that is in effect the slow destruction of a people.
Quote from: Syt on October 31, 2009, 06:39:30 AM
Havey they copied/pasted those images from rotten.com? I'm not quite sure they're all authentic South African. I also love how none of the depicted victims is black.
Well, since the entire point of the blog is displaying the racist atrocities specifically committed against whites what would be the point of posting pictures of black-on-black violence? :huh:
Quote from: Queequeg on October 31, 2009, 12:06:02 PM
:huh:
What should they have done?
Make a Last Trek to the Cape and make African Singapore. That's still what they should do even now while their anti ANC afrikaans speaking cousins are still the majority there.
Quote from: Syt on October 31, 2009, 06:39:30 AM
Havey they copied/pasted those images from rotten.com?
Scenes like that are not rare in the thousands of South African farm attacks and home invasions that have occurred. You can read about them all the time in any of the South African online newspapers, though they don't show the photos, they make their way on to the net.
Jesus. (http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/world/africa/corrective+rape+in+south+africa+/3027797)
What the fuck?
Quote from: Queequeg on October 31, 2009, 04:17:01 PM
Jesus. (http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/world/africa/corrective+rape+in+south+africa+/3027797)
What the fuck?
This is old news.
But of course, the people who predicted this type of development in South Africa were duly harassed and persecuted.
You have your part in this shame.
I wonder, though, if you will ever come to realize it, and if the west will ever apologize.
I dont think the Volkstaat in the northern cape is quite a pie in the sky fantasy- there are signs that the afrikaners are becoming responsive to the crisis, and they own more guns per capita than americans do.
:lmfao:
Some of the comments in Slargos' link could have been made by Lettow's cousin.
Quote
Wow. I just discovered this blog and what a startling introduction. Those pics are terribly disturbing and make the blood boil with rage. I feel for my white brethren in SA. Truly the only path to freedom and safety for you, is through a valley of vicious fighting and spilt kaffir blood. I sometimes wonder if the US could face the same future one day. Stand strong brothers. I'll do my part (albeit small) by sharing this article and these photos. I just hope the whites in SA all realize that there is no "surviving the ordeal" once a kaffir has set their black eyes on you. You must fight viciously with the spirit of a berserker at the first notice of malicious intent. No mercy to savages. When the revolution finally comes for you in SA, may you be frighteningly victorious, that you will strike fear in the hearts of those around the world whose hate the great white race, and show whites across the globe what can be accomplished when pushed to fight back, rather than submit in a corner. Thank you for this article ... it was very eye-opening.
Quote
is anyone surprised by this?you should have known this would happen when you turn over power to niggers the first thing they would do is kill whitey.can you tell me why you are not armed so you can defend your woman from feral silverbacks?i have known since i was a kid that shitskins can not be tamed they must be subdued usually with a bullet to the head.this is why you should never go any where unarmed in south africa and if the nigger cops give any shit shoot and kill them being cowards the nigs will soon leave you alone.grow a pair organize your selves for defence and fuck the mudshaqrk whites have nothing to do with them as they brought this plague savage niggers on you.if i had my way we in the u.s.a would give you our niggers and have all the whites come here.
Quote from: Slargos on October 31, 2009, 04:28:22 PM
I wonder, though, if you will ever come to realize it, and if the west will ever apologize.
I love how all the non-Western types on the internet thing of the West as some kind of monolithic bloc. In fact, Slargos, haven't you lived in the West for years? How many more years will it take before you unlearn this absurd notion of the monobloc West?
Quote from: grumbler on October 31, 2009, 06:59:20 PM
Quote from: Slargos on October 31, 2009, 04:28:22 PM
I wonder, though, if you will ever come to realize it, and if the west will ever apologize.
I love how all the non-Western types on the internet thing of the West as some kind of monolithic bloc. In fact, Slargos, haven't you lived in the West for years? How many more years will it take before you unlearn this absurd notion of the monobloc West?
A reasonable protest. I'm naturally not going to claim that every citizen of every western nation is personally responsible since that would be absurd. By "you" I'm referring to those members of this board who applaud the destruction of apartheid bedamned the consequences. I would appreciate that number to be anywhere between 70-95% of this board without making an actual tally.
However, the embargoes and incessant badgering that brought about the collapse of the Rhodesian and South African regimes, throwing both countries into a crash course with shit-covered ice-bergs were in practice orchestrated by the west acting as your monobloc and as such WE are collectively responsible.
Quote from: Fate on October 31, 2009, 06:37:55 PM
:lmfao:
Some of the comments in Slargos' link could have been made by Lettow's cousin.
Classic. "Focus on blowing up the magnitude of what is in essence irrelevant in order to avoid responding to an issue where my arguments fall flat".
If I didn't know better, I'd suspect you of being Swedish. :D
Quote from: Lettow77 on October 31, 2009, 05:57:52 PM
I dont think the Volkstaat in the northern cape is quite a pie in the sky fantasy- there are signs that the afrikaners are becoming responsive to the crisis, and they own more guns per capita than americans do.
As much as I don't like it, it really is a fantasy. The Boers and the English are too little.
I'm not gonna play Sun City.
Quote from: Slargos on October 31, 2009, 07:21:22 PM
A reasonable protest. I'm naturally not going to claim that every citizen of every western nation is personally responsible since that would be absurd. By "you" I'm referring to those members of this board who applaud the destruction of apartheid bedamned the consequences. I would appreciate that number to be anywhere between 70-95% of this board without making an actual tally.
I'd estimate that number to be very close to 0%. "Bedamned the consequences" isn't a position anyone takes in real life, though it sounds great when one wants to engage in rhetoric-spouting.
QuoteHowever, the embargoes and incessant badgering that brought about the collapse of the Rhodesian and South African regimes, throwing both countries into a crash course with shit-covered ice-bergs were in practice orchestrated by the west acting as your monobloc and as such WE are collectively responsible.
The same happened when the French started their revolution, the Soviet Union fell, and Pol Pot was turfed out. Regimes that don't prepare their populace for independence of thought should not be mourned simply because they were short-sighted fucks. If the West had done nothing, the racist regimes would still have fallen, and they would still have fallen while championing the very tribalist concepts that are fucking over Africa today, whether in South Africa or DRC or Nigeria or Kenya or... well, you get the idea.
Your tears over the collapse of apartheid regimes strike s me as funny, indeed, since it was those regimes that failed to plan for this day, and decided to spend their money making white men richer rather than black men better-educated. They have sown the wind, and the real shame isn't so much that a few white male fucks have lost power, but that innocents suffer bestial violence and those inciting and inflicting the violence seem to gain the benefits of their bestiality.
So, you are blaming the wrong folks. This didn't have to be the post-Apartheid future of Southern Africa; the white regimes
chose this to be that future.
Quote from: Slargos on October 31, 2009, 07:25:56 PM
Quote from: Fate on October 31, 2009, 06:37:55 PM
:lmfao:
Some of the comments in Slargos' link could have been made by Lettow's cousin.
Classic. "Focus on blowing up the magnitude of what is in essence irrelevant in order to avoid responding to an issue where my arguments fall flat".
Who really cares if the dastardly kaffirs kill off some white religious nutters? Anyone of any importance has already left SA.
Religious nutters is a pretty callous phrase. As a non-Christian, I still have tremendous respect for sincere practicioners of the faith. It is one of the pillars of the West, or at least the West that was. Are the afrikaners to be castigated because the west's secularisation left them behind? They dont even have an oppressive, centrally-ran civic church like an orthodox state; they are merely genuinely pious, and this is their religious crime.
It's nonsense to say SA would have fell without the West's persistant and ruinous interference. Treating SA like a basic member of the western family of nations would have sown profitable dividends, for the West, South Africa, and Africa as a whole.
The eight seperate bantu nations outnumbered whites only on a 4:1 basis before apartheid fell, and they were increasingly moving torwards self rule. It was a ploddering, stumbling and impoverished self rule, because the african continent is home to ploddering, stumbling and impoverished kaffirs. However, an independent government with heavy economic and governmental assistance from a western country would uplift them, by gradual degrees.
The millions of Coloureds in South Africa viewed themselves as an extension of Western South Africa, and the real crime of the Apartheid government is not reaching out more to these unfortunate sons. SA had a good concensus amogn the governed, and was hardly a police state- its number of police never equalled that of NYC, and over half of these were non-white. Irregardless, the ANC, PAC and other associated terrorist groups were cheered, trained and armed abroad, while socialists in Europe who would weep and protest for the hanging of a murderer gave tacit or vocal support to the murder of white families in southern Africa, preferring the supposed tyranny of white democracy be replaced with the actual tyranny of black dictatorship.
South Africa was treated by the rest of the world as if it was just another colonial government, that had to be ended for majority rule to surface in Africa. As a result, a western nation was engulfed in flames, overthrown, and an entire people now face destruction- even as those people fought communism and the second world more consistently and at greater cost to themselves than America. The destruction of SA was not wholly engendered by the West; The Eastern bloc and the odious influence of communism must take enormous credit, but their socialist fellow-travellers in the west were certaintly not slow to applaud the efforts of terrorists inside SA and condemn any attempt to resist them.
The destruction of SA and Apartheid was not at all a foregone conclusion, as some of you say. But it -is- the fault of the West, and the West is that much poorer for it's destruction.
Quote from: Lettow77 on November 01, 2009, 08:26:09 AM
Religious nutters is a pretty callous phrase. As a non-Christian, I still have tremendous respect for sincere practicioners of the faith. It is one of the pillars of the West, or at least the West that was. Are the afrikaners to be castigated because the west's secularisation left them behind? They dont even have an oppressive, centrally-ran civic church like an orthodox state; they are merely genuinely pious, and this is their religious crime.
It's nonsense to say SA would have fell without the West's persistant and ruinous interference. Treating SA like a basic member of the western family of nations would have sown profitable dividends, for the West, South Africa, and Africa as a whole.
The eight seperate bantu nations outnumbered whites only on a 4:1 basis before apartheid fell, and they were increasingly moving torwards self rule. It was a ploddering, stumbling and impoverished self rule, because the african continent is home to ploddering, stumbling and impoverished kaffirs. However, an independent government with heavy economic and governmental assistance from a western country would uplift them, by gradual degrees.
The millions of Coloureds in South Africa viewed themselves as an extension of Western South Africa, and the real crime of the Apartheid government is not reaching out more to these unfortunate sons. SA had a good concensus amogn the governed, and was hardly a police state- its number of police never equalled that of NYC, and over half of these were non-white. Irregardless, the ANC, PAC and other associated terrorist groups were cheered, trained and armed abroad, while socialists in Europe who would weep and protest for the hanging of a murderer gave tacit or vocal support to the murder of white families in southern Africa, preferring the supposed tyranny of white democracy be replaced with the actual tyranny of black dictatorship.
South Africa was treated by the rest of the world as if it was just another colonial government, that had to be ended for majority rule to surface in Africa. As a result, a western nation was engulfed in flames, overthrown, and an entire people now face destruction- even as those people fought communism and the second world more consistently and at greater cost to themselves than America. The destruction of SA was not wholly engendered by the West; The Eastern bloc and the odious influence of communism must take enormous credit, but their socialist fellow-travellers in the west were certaintly not slow to applaud the efforts of terrorists inside SA and condemn any attempt to resist them.
The destruction of SA and Apartheid was not at all a foregone conclusion, as some of you say. But it -is- the fault of the West, and the West is that much poorer for it's destruction.
Warning level raised for owning too many RaHoWa albums.
It must be hard being the most racist person on languish, CdM. :)
Quote from: Lettow77 on November 01, 2009, 09:10:11 AM
It must be hard being the most racist person on languish, CdM. :)
Wait for 24 hours, and see what happens to your level then, my secessionist friend.
This wouldn't have been necessary if that secessionist poster hadn't started it. They never learn. You see, secession has to be cleared away by the hand of God like the Jews of old. Now I will have to burn this thread.
Oh no need to wait 24 hours Senor Money.
Personally, I think that Lettow brings up an interesting point.