Languish.org

Curious how many of you share Sheilbh's passion for languages.

I have a passion for languages but I'm mostly a dilettante.  I've dabbled at various points with Spanish, German, French, Dutch, Latin and Hindi...but no fluency. :blush:

English only.  I learned some French at school and a bit of Spanish when I was in Argentina.  I try and keep them going by reading news and pulp fiction in them both, but really I need a lot more time in either country or organised lessons which I can't afford.

I can understand and speak some Spanish. The sad thing is, I can't understand Mexican Spanish (the accent :bleeding: ), but I can understand Honduran Spanish pretty well.

I'm trying to learn Farsi now. It's not going well. I suspect it'll end up like my attempts to study Cherokee, Latin, and French. :P

Quote from: garbon on September 05, 2009, 10:01:35 PM
I have a passion for languages but I'm mostly a dilettante.  I've dabbled at various points with Spanish, German, French, Dutch, Latin and Hindi...but no fluency. :blush:

Same. I speak some German, a little bit of Korean, and I used to know a little Russian and Spanish.

I speak Russian fluently.  Followup questions are not allowed.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 05, 2009, 10:31:06 PM
I speak Russian fluently.  Followup questions are not allowed.

Hah.  I could -almost- say Russian; but I wouldn't say I am "fluent".

Working knowledge, maybe.

Can read Spanish and French well, write both OK, speak both poorly, and understand (spoken) both very poorly.

Quote from: Capetan Mihali on September 05, 2009, 11:00:03 PM
Can read Spanish and French well, write both OK, speak both poorly, and understand (spoken) both very poorly.

I'm that way with Spanish too. :hug:

French, english, shitty spanish and even worse italian.

Know a few phrases in gujrati, vietnamese and tagalog, mostly stuff to pickup chicks  :P

Not fluent in anything but English.  But there's a long way between English only and being fluent in something else.

English and enough French to find directions, get a meal etc.

Quote from: Tonitrus on September 05, 2009, 10:39:23 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 05, 2009, 10:31:06 PM
I speak Russian fluently.  Followup questions are not allowed.

Hah.  I could -almost- say Russian; but I wouldn't say I am "fluent".

Working knowledge, maybe.

The honest truth is I remember about thirty words, including "slon," and I don't think that's even in the top ten thousand most useful words to know in Russian.  I can also remember how to ask "Do you speak English?", which is even less useful, since anyone who would give a positive response would not need to be asked in Russian.

Quote from: Zoupa on September 06, 2009, 12:25:59 AM
French, english, shitty spanish and even worse italian.

Know a few phrases in gujrati, vietnamese and tagalog, mostly stuff to pickup chicks  :P

Did you talk Vietnamese to Katsumi? :wub:

Quote from: Ideologue on September 06, 2009, 01:43:57 AM
I can also remember how to ask "Do you speak English?", which is even less useful, since anyone who would give a positive response would not need to be asked in Russian.

I disagree. Locals are often much more well disposed towards you if you ask them that in their native tongue, as it shows a bit of effort on your side.

Quote from: Syt on September 06, 2009, 01:00:43 AM
English and enough French to find directions, get a meal etc.

This.

English, German and an acceptable level in romani (the so-called sinti), aromanian and latin...

Fluent (shut up :mad:) in English.

Some German.

Dutch (duh), fluent enough eglish I guess, decent enough french (especially if I get a day to gear up), passable german, can decipher spanish, italian, danish and a bit of swedish if I have a lot of time (but only if written).
I really should make the effort to get those last ones up to at least being able to understand them when spoken  but meh, can't be arsed atm.

Just English other than native Spanish. I used to be fluent in German, but haven't spoken it for 15 years or so. :(

Besides Spanish and Galician, my mother tongues, and English, I'm fluent in Italian, can understand Portuguese pretty well, and remember a little bit of French from High School.

I too have dabbled in many and mastered none.
It doesn't help that I suck in languages too.

Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 06, 2009, 04:24:43 AM
Dutch (duh),

Do all Russians speak Dutch? ;)

Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 06, 2009, 12:38:03 AM
Not fluent in anything but English.  But there's a long way between English only and being fluent in something else.

Not when the question is about what languages you're fluent in.  :P

My German is pretty good.

Quote from: Lucidor on September 06, 2009, 07:54:18 AM
My German is pretty good.

He's an excellent dancer?

I can grok some Beaner and Frog. Fluent? Not a chance.

Native English, and French well enough to conduct detailed business negotiations in that language.

I learned a significant amount of Latin, Spanish, and Chinese, and I dabbled in French.

The issue I have always run into is the availability of being able to use my language skills enough from them not to deteriorate.

By the end of the year I'll be reasonably fluent in Russian, probably not able to go through all of Onegin without a dictionary but all my classes save Turkish involve a lot of Russian text.  And, obviously, I can speak some Turkish.  And some German.

I've some English and some Danish in addition to speaking Icelandic as a native. Throw in some (very) rusty German as well.

Quote from: Strix on September 06, 2009, 10:20:09 AM
I learned a significant amount of Latin, Spanish, and Chinese, and I dabbled in French.

The issue I have always run into is the availability of being able to use my language skills enough from them not to deteriorate.

I am curious. Is Spanish difficult to practice in the US ? Are there zones of incomfort in trying to speak Spanish to the people in restaurant, constructions, etc. ? Is it well received ? Does it seem silly from the perspective of the English-speaking population ?

How many people are truly fluent in any language but their own?

My written English is better than that of a large portion of the natives in the anglosphere, but my spoken will probably never reach fluency mainly because I don't use it often enough.

I dabble in German and French, but only enough for very limited conversation.

My Norwegian is improving, but I skip too much between crazy dialects for it to ever be anything but a party-prop.

Quote from: Oexmelin on September 06, 2009, 11:11:29 AM
I am curious. Is Spanish difficult to practice in the US ? Are there zones of incomfort in trying to speak Spanish to the people in restaurant, constructions, etc. ? Is it well received ? Does it seem silly from the perspective of the English-speaking population ?

The only mine in the minefield I've encountered is when you start babbling in Spanish and it turns out the dude has been in the US for 3 generations and doesn't speak a lick of Spanish.  But even then you just look like a doofus, it's not like anybody gets pissed.  If you're asking if some redneck yells at you for not speaking Amurrican, I've never experienced that and would be surprised if I did.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 06, 2009, 11:20:34 AM
The only mine in the minefield I've encountered is when you start babbling in Spanish and it turns out the dude has been in the US for 3 generations and doesn't speak a lick of Spanish.  But even then you just look like a doofus, it's not like anybody gets pissed.  If you're asking if some redneck yells at you for not speaking Amurrican, I've never experienced that and would be surprised if I did.

Thank you, I was asking both. I witnessed both an example of a Spanish-speaking teller being offended by someone speaking approximate Spanish (*I speak English, you know*) and redneckism such as you describe - only two times so I was wondering what the Americans experiences were.

Quote from: Oexmelin on September 06, 2009, 11:28:02 AM
Thank you, I was asking both. I witnessed both an example of a Spanish-speaking teller being offended by someone speaking approximate Spanish (*I speak English, you know*) and redneckism such as you describe - only two times so I was wondering what the Americans experiences were.

No shit.  What were the circumstances on the second?

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 06, 2009, 11:32:48 AM
No shit.  What were the circumstances on the second?

Politically exploding situation - so I ascribed it to «simple» xenophoby: counter-protest against the great walk in favour of legalization of illegal immigrants in Chicago.

I live in a neighborhood that's had a huge surge in the Mexican population, but I do feel awkward trying to speak Spanish in stores, restaurants, etc.  It seems patronizing at some level, I guess. 

I never spoke Spanish with the Dominican corner store owner or his family for a year at my old apartment, even though I went in there several times a week.  But the one time I had an out-of-town guest go in there alone and speak rudimentary Spanish with them, they loved it.

I hate foreigners talking to me in their barbarian languages.

Bar bar bar! Bar Bar?

no fluency in anything but English. But My English is so good It's like I can speak any language. :p

Quote from: Capetan Mihali on September 06, 2009, 01:38:24 PM
I live in a neighborhood that's had a huge surge in the Mexican population, but I do feel awkward trying to speak Spanish in stores, restaurants, etc.  It seems patronizing at some level, I guess. 

Same here. Well not surge but it does have a huge Mexican population.

Quote from: Oexmelin on September 06, 2009, 11:11:29 AM

Quote from: Strix on September 06, 2009, 10:20:09 AM
I learned a significant amount of Latin, Spanish, and Chinese, and I dabbled in French.

The issue I have always run into is the availability of being able to use my language skills enough from them not to deteriorate.

I am curious. Is Spanish difficult to practice in the US ? Are there zones of incomfort in trying to speak Spanish to the people in restaurant, constructions, etc. ? Is it well received ? Does it seem silly from the perspective of the English-speaking population ?

It depends on the area that you live in. Where I grew up had little or no Spanish speaking people. When I lived in North Carolina, there were a lot of illegal immigrants, so I used my Spanish skills more but would often run into issues over dialect because the immigrants came from a wide variety of countries. Now that I live in Rochester most of the Spanish speaking people are Puerto Rican or Cuban.

It depends on the person (people) you are speaking with if it's well received or not. Puerto Ricans seem to take the most offense, or so it seems to me, when you try to communicate with them in Spanish. They seem to feel you are either patronizing them or that you're disrespecting them by not knowing enough of the language. However, I am not sure that it has anything to do with trying to speak Spanish or not because Puerto Ricans seem to take offense at a lot of stuff for no apparent reason, hehehehehe.

I haven't come across many English speakers that find it silly. The few that did find it silly were hardcore rednecks that get upset when you speak proper English around them let alone another language.

The most well-known tv-personality on languages here has a test when someone claims he speaks "fluent" English. He opens up a kitchen drawer and asks him to name all the utensils...

Fluent: Swedish.
Good at reading, hearing and writing, ok at speaking: English.
Understands okayish: Norwegian, Danish (written) , German, French, Dutch (written).

Deutsch. Going to be revisiting Espanol as a matter of necessity for the legal profession (at least for NJ and PA). Also working on Nihongo and Francais. Currently only confident in my skills in Deutsch, though.

You could say japanese you know  :rolleyes:

Quote from: Zoupa on September 06, 2009, 03:25:02 PM
You could say japanese you know  :rolleyes:

Meh. I just prefer to call languages by their native names as a matter of preference. I could just as easily have said German, Spanish, Japanese, and French, but I decided against it. :mellow:

I think you should push it further and type nihongo using their alphabet next time.

Quote from: DontSayBanana on September 06, 2009, 03:29:11 PM
Meh. I just prefer to call languages by their native names as a matter of preference. I could just as easily have said German, Spanish, Japanese, and French, but I decided against it. :mellow:

Don't worry, we're used to you putting on airs. :hug:

I am surprised though that you've only admitted to being fluent in one other language! :o

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 05, 2009, 09:46:06 PM
Curious how many of you share Sheilbh's passion for languages.

I get no respect. :cry:

Quote from: garbon on September 06, 2009, 03:31:58 PM
Don't worry, we're used to you putting on airs. :hug:

I am surprised though that you've only admitted to being fluent in one other language! :o

"Putting on airs" is a gross overstatement- I've already admitted I can't speak the only language besides English that would actually be useful in South Jersey. It's just a simple neurosis.

I do like my vocabulary, though. Another neurosis would be being overly-precise in my speaking, and yes, I talk the same way I type. I guess I could see where you guys would get "putting on airs" out of that. :hug:

Quote from: DontSayBanana on September 06, 2009, 03:43:27 PM
"Putting on airs" is a gross overstatement- I've already admitted I can't speak the only language besides English that would actually be useful in South Jersey. It's just a simple neurosis.

I do like my vocabulary, though. Another neurosis would be being overly-precise in my speaking, and yes, I talk the same way I type. I guess I could see where you guys would get "putting on airs" out of that. :hug:

Actually, the "putting on airs" part more globally goes to your attempts to play the role of encyclopedia brown.

Quote from: Zoupa on September 06, 2009, 03:25:02 PM
You could say japanese you know  :rolleyes:

He wants people to google it

Quote from: garbon on September 06, 2009, 03:46:48 PM
Actually, the "putting on airs" part more globally goes to your attempts to play the role of encyclopedia brown.

More "Encyclopedia Googlica" than "Encyclopedia Brown." :contract:

Other than English, I speak some French and Russian. But English is the only language I speak fluently (shut up!).

English rather well for a not native speaker. I can understand it fluently, read it fluently, speaking and typing itself with some errors.
French: I have a basic knowledge and can make me understood rather well. I don't know it as well as English, but I use it in a daily setting with our customers. I have a bilingual colleague whom I often ask for advice.
German. Better as Jean Marie Pfaff, former goalkeeper of Bayern München. I can understand it rather well when written since it's the language closest to Dutch. I can help me out when necessary but I make a lot of errors. Also more often it's literraly translated Dutch.
Spanish: I had two years of evening classes. I can still understand most of the written lingo but I fogot half the vocab so I can say some sentences with help of a tourist dictionarry.

I only speak English fluently. I know a little French to read (not much), a very little Chinese (in spite of years of schooling in both) and a smattering of Ukranian and Yiddish (in spite of being married into a family fluent in the one and being the grandson of grandparents fluent in the other).

I suck at languages.

Quote from: Malthus on September 06, 2009, 04:30:48 PM
I only speak English fluently. I know a little French to read (not much), a very little Chinese (in spite of years of schooling in both) and a smattering of Ukranian and Yiddish (in spite of being married into a family fluent in the one and being the grandson of grandparents fluent in the other).

I suck at languages.

You conveniently forgot Hebrew. :rolleyes:

Quote from: The Brain on September 06, 2009, 04:32:24 PM
You conveniently forgot Hebrew. :rolleyes:

I don't know any Hebrew at all.  :D

I took Latin.  I forgot most of it.  It's not exactly useful.

Quote from: DontSayBanana on September 06, 2009, 03:43:27 PM
I do like my vocabulary, though. Another neurosis would be being overly-precise in my speaking, and yes, I talk the same way I type. I guess I could see where you guys would get "putting on airs" out of that. :hug:

Using the Japanese word for their language rather than the English word, when writing on an English-speaking board 9especially when the rest of your post is in English exept for the foreign-language names of the languages) could so easily be taken for "putting on airs" that I am astonished that you don't see it.

I ' use "bulkhead" for wall, "hatch" for door, or "ladder" for stairs, even though those are perfectly correct and accurate terms when speaking Navy-speak.  The reason I don't is because it would be "putting on airs" unless I was literally speaking about those things aboard a ship.

You might want to look more closely at the reasons why you used the non-English terms.  They probably are not so innocent as you believe without consideration. :hug:

Quote from: Malthus on September 06, 2009, 04:34:56 PM

Quote from: The Brain on September 06, 2009, 04:32:24 PM
You conveniently forgot Hebrew. :rolleyes:

I don't know any Hebrew at all.  :D

Go back to Hebrew School young man.  :mad:

Quote from: garbon on September 06, 2009, 03:46:48 PM
Actually, the "putting on airs" part more globally goes to your attempts to play the role of encyclopedia brown.

Einstein Anderson > Encyclopedia Brown.  :mad:

Saying nihongo is like using gwailo (sp?).  The people who understand will understand and those who don't can ask if they want.

BTW does anyone know how to say Mandarin and Cantonese in Mandarin and Cantonese?

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 06, 2009, 07:16:50 PM
BTW does anyone know how to say Mandarin and Cantonese in Mandarin and Cantonese?

Mono and Jacob may have an idea.  If they ever get here <_<

There are transliterations on Wiki.  From what I can tell:

Mandarin: Guān Huà
Cantonese: Yuè Yǔ

Quote from: DontSayBanana on September 06, 2009, 03:29:11 PM

Quote from: Zoupa on September 06, 2009, 03:25:02 PM
You could say japanese you know  :rolleyes:

Meh. I just prefer to call languages by their native names as a matter of preference. I could just as easily have said German, Spanish, Japanese, and French, but I decided against it. :mellow:

Wow.  Your level of pretension is absolutely stunning.

Quote from: Caliga on September 06, 2009, 07:20:37 PM
There are transliterations on Wiki.  From what I can tell:

Mandarin: Guān Huà
Cantonese: Yuè Yǔ

Shit.  There's no way to remember that gobbledy gook.

Quote from: Caliga on September 06, 2009, 06:57:29 PM
Einstein Anderson > Encyclopedia Brown.  :mad:

I hated the latter.

 :hug:

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 06, 2009, 07:16:50 PM
Saying nihongo is like using gwailo (sp?).  The people who understand will understand and those who don't can ask if they want.

BTW does anyone know how to say Mandarin and Cantonese in Mandarin and Cantonese?

In Cantonese:

Mandarin: there is more than one way to say "Mandarin" in Cantonese.  The most common way is "Po Tung Wah" - literally, "ordinary language".  Another, less common expression is "Gwok Yu", which means the "national language". 

Cantonese: Gwong Dong Wah.  As you can guess, the "wah" means language.  "Yu" also means language, but "yu" is more formal than "wah".  We usually say "wah" but write "yu".  In Cantonese, the written and spoken forms can be quite different.  Yet another word that means language is "Man".  It is important to know when to say what.  "Wah" is usually associated with dialects or spoken languages.  "Ying" is the abbreviation of "England".  So to say "English" in Cantonese, we say "Ying Man" or "Ying Yu".  The latter is more formal than the former.  "Ying Wah" is not acceptable.  It is hard, so stop learning  :P

In Mandarin:

Mandarin: Pu Tong Hwah.  It may look pretty similar to Cantonese, but the tone and stress are actually quite different. 
Cantonese: Guang Dong Hwah. 

One thing that annoys me to no end is the westerners' fascination with languages.  They love learning new languages; they expect other people to learn their languages, and they want to learn Chinese when they are in Hong Kong.  But a lot of them don't appreciate that the barrier between English and Chinese is much more formidable than, say, the rift between English and French.  Most of the Chinese-learners speak extremely crappy Cantonese, to the point that it is completely unintelligible.  Yet they insist in saying it.  Another thing is, when I see a Caucausion face, I expect to process English.  I just cannot understand your crappy Cantonese so please stop trying  :P

Quote from: Monoriu on September 06, 2009, 09:10:50 PMAnother thing is, when I see a Caucausion face, I expect to process English.  I just cannot understand your crappy Cantonese so please stop trying  :P

This is why I've always refused to speak English with Orientals.  I just cannot understand their fobbish English and wish they would just go bring me the cashew chicken.

Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 06, 2009, 09:55:48 PM

Quote from: Monoriu on September 06, 2009, 09:10:50 PMAnother thing is, when I see a Caucausion face, I expect to process English.  I just cannot understand your crappy Cantonese so please stop trying  :P

This is why I've always refused to speak English with Orientals.  I just cannot understand their fobbish English and wish they would just go bring me the cashew chicken.

I thought your job is to teach them :contract:

Quote from: Monoriu on September 06, 2009, 09:06:24 PM
Mandarin: Pu Tong Hwah.  It may look pretty similar to Cantonese, but the tone and stress are actually quite different. 
Cantonese: Guang Dong Hwah.

Interesting.  The Korean word for ordinary is potong.  And everyone knows Guang Dong is the new, hip way of saying Canton.  So maybe I can remember those.

Quote from: garbon on September 06, 2009, 03:31:58 PM

Quote from: DontSayBanana on September 06, 2009, 03:29:11 PM
Meh. I just prefer to call languages by their native names as a matter of preference. I could just as easily have said German, Spanish, Japanese, and French, but I decided against it. :mellow:

Don't worry, we're used to you putting on airs. :hug:

I am surprised though that you've only admitted to being fluent in one other language! :o

Agree.  Airs were put on.

Quote from: Monoriu on September 06, 2009, 09:06:24 PM
In Cantonese:

Mandarin: there is more than one way to say "Mandarin" in Cantonese.  The most common way is "Po Tung Wah" - literally, "ordinary language".  Another, less common expression is "Gwok Yu", which means the "national language". 

I always thought Hua (what Caliga said) meant something like "correct" and indicated Mandarin-speaking Han Chinese? What does Hua mean, then?

Mandarin is so far from English that I don't think I'd ever have a real shot at learning it now.  No exposure to tonal languages before age 11=no chance of fluency in Mandarin, no real chance of getting even passable Cantonese.  At least Turkish is Latin Alphabet, tone-free and has some basic grammatical similarities with the Indo-European languages and a more European style. 

Quote from: Queequeg on September 07, 2009, 02:26:11 AM
No exposure to tonal languages before age 11=no chance of fluency in Mandarin

The Prime Minister of Australia seems to have done it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tixwTItEp9A&feature=related

Quote from: Queequeg on September 07, 2009, 02:26:11 AM


I always thought Hua (what Caliga said) meant something like "correct" and indicated Mandarin-speaking Han Chinese? What does Hua mean, then?

Mandarin is so far from English that I don't think I'd ever have a real shot at learning it now.  No exposure to tonal languages before age 11=no chance of fluency in Mandarin, no real chance of getting even passable Cantonese.  At least Turkish is Latin Alphabet, tone-free and has some basic grammatical similarities with the Indo-European languages and a more European style.

There are many, many Chinese words that are pronounced as "Hua".  So it all depends on exactly which Chinese word you mean, and the context.  One meaning of "Hua" is "grand".  The official name of Mainland China is "Chung Hua Ren Min Gong He Guo".  Chung means central, middle.  Think "Middle Kingdom".  Hua is grand, sorta like the "Great" in Great Britain.  Chung Hua combined means China.  Ren Min is People.  Gong He Guo is Republic.  People's Republic of China. 

Hua Yu means Chinese.

Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 07, 2009, 02:39:18 AM

Quote from: Queequeg on September 07, 2009, 02:26:11 AM
No exposure to tonal languages before age 11=no chance of fluency in Mandarin

The Prime Minister of Australia seems to have done it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tixwTItEp9A&feature=related

Yeah, his Mandarin is better than mine. 

What kind of accent does Rudd have? Beijinger?

Quote from: Tyr on September 07, 2009, 04:54:12 AM
What kind of accent does Rudd have? Beijinger?

No, he doesn't sound like a Beijinger.  His Mandarin is very, very good.  If I listen to that without seeing his face, I will guess it is a Chinese speaking. 

Did he serve in the Korean War? :ph34r:

Quote from: Monoriu on September 07, 2009, 05:06:54 AM

Quote from: Tyr on September 07, 2009, 04:54:12 AM
What kind of accent does Rudd have? Beijinger?

No, he doesn't sound like a Beijinger.  His Mandarin is very, very good.  If I listen to that without seeing his face, I will guess it is a Chinese speaking. 

If he sounds Chinese though then surely he'd sound like he's from at least some area (even if very roughly)?
Or maybe I'm thinking in too much of a English variation mindset there (though I had heard Chinese has this a lot too).

Quote from: Tyr on September 07, 2009, 05:33:25 AM

If he sounds Chinese though then surely he'd sound like he's from at least some area (even if very roughly)?
Or maybe I'm thinking in too much of a English variation mindset there (though I had heard Chinese has this a lot too).

He sounds like the news anchors of the Chinese state-run TV news programmes.  Only these guys speak Mandarin that is so perfect  :lol:

Not trying to pull a Don'tSayBanana, but the "correct" spelling in pinyin (i.e. modern, standardized Romanization) for Mandarin is "pu tong hua" or "pǔ ​tōng ​huà​" with the tones marked.

My Chinese is still extremely shitty.  However, I find I do have to use it a lot here in Nanjing, since most people (especially store and restaurant staff) usually literally don't speak a word of English, other than "hello" and "bye bye".

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on September 07, 2009, 06:10:21 AM
My Chinese is still extremely shitty.  However, I find I do have to use it a lot here in Nanjing, since most people (especially store and restaurant staff) usually literally don't speak a word of English, other than "hello" and "bye bye".

In the buildup to the 88 Olympics the Korean government embarked on a massive year-long training program and managed to teach most school children how to say "welcome to Korea."

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 07, 2009, 06:31:53 AM

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on September 07, 2009, 06:10:21 AM
My Chinese is still extremely shitty.  However, I find I do have to use it a lot here in Nanjing, since most people (especially store and restaurant staff) usually literally don't speak a word of English, other than "hello" and "bye bye".

In the buildup to the 88 Olympics the Korean government embarked on a massive year-long training program and managed to teach most school children how to say "welcome to Korea."

And 20 years later, most can now manage "Hello", "What's your name?" "How are you?", and "Fine, thank you. And you?"
;)

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 07, 2009, 06:31:53 AM

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on September 07, 2009, 06:10:21 AM
My Chinese is still extremely shitty.  However, I find I do have to use it a lot here in Nanjing, since most people (especially store and restaurant staff) usually literally don't speak a word of English, other than "hello" and "bye bye".

In the buildup to the 88 Olympics the Korean government embarked on a massive year-long training program and managed to teach most school children how to say "welcome to Korea."

Is that how you became fluent in English?

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on September 07, 2009, 06:10:21 AM
Not trying to pull a Don'tSayBanana, but the "correct" spelling in pinyin (i.e. modern, standardized Romanization) for Mandarin is "pu tong hua" or "pǔ ​tōng ​huà​" with the tones marked.

My Chinese is still extremely shitty.  However, I find I do have to use it a lot here in Nanjing, since most people (especially store and restaurant staff) usually literally don't speak a word of English, other than "hello" and "bye bye".

I suck at pinyin  :blush:

Apropos to what I was saying in the Brit-in-Quebec thread, it just goes to show the yawning gulf between learning a language in elementary or secondary school, and actually being able to use it in real life.

QuoteI suck at pinyin  :blush:

What's the name for the Romanization system used by Cantonese speakers in HK?  Is it just Wade-Giles or what?

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on September 07, 2009, 09:25:25 AM
What's the name for the Romanization system used by Cantonese speakers in HK?  Is it just Wade-Giles or what?

We don't use romanization at all, as far as I am aware.  Pinyin is a mainland thing. 

Quote from: Monoriu on September 07, 2009, 09:26:45 AM

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on September 07, 2009, 09:25:25 AM
What's the name for the Romanization system used by Cantonese speakers in HK?  Is it just Wade-Giles or what?

We don't use romanization at all, as far as I am aware.  Pinyin is a mainland thing.

I see.  But sometimes I see the romanization of Cantonese at karaoke here in Nanjing.... or in HK place names.  But obviously it is not terribly common.

I still call Beijing Peking. And nobody is gonna make me change. Damn kids and their new fangled ways.

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 07, 2009, 09:28:44 AM
I still call Beijing Peking. And nobody is gonna make me change. Damn kids and their new fangled ways.

There is a very well known restaurant in HK known as Peking Garden.  Most people here also say/write Peking duck, not Beijing duck.

So you are hardly unique  :P

Quote from: Ed Anger on September 07, 2009, 09:28:44 AM
I still call Beijing Peking. And nobody is gonna make me change. Damn kids and their new fangled ways.

I feel the same way. I keep addressing everything I send downstate to New Amsterdam. It keeps getting sent back! Those damn Tory lovers and their New York City nonsense.

Pinyin may be more accurate, but Wade-Giles is generally a lot prettier.

All forms of romanization is unnecessary.  Just memorize the pronounciations :contract:

Wade-Giles, though, had all those special pronounciation rules - letters didn't sound like English necessarily...

Quote from: Monoriu on September 07, 2009, 10:00:52 AM
All forms of romanization is unnecessary.  Just memorize the pronounciations :contract:

Some civilizations have discovered this ingenious technology called "writing."

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 07, 2009, 10:03:09 AM

Quote from: Monoriu on September 07, 2009, 10:00:52 AM
All forms of romanization is unnecessary.  Just memorize the pronounciations :contract:

Some civilizations have discovered this ingenious technology called "writing."

Isn't Alphabets a dead end and basically useless if you don't intend to trade techs?

Quote from: Monoriu on September 07, 2009, 10:04:43 AM
Isn't Alphabets a dead end and basically useless if you don't intend to trade techs?

:huh:

Why wouldn't you want to be able to extort techs?

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on September 07, 2009, 09:23:19 AM
Apropos to what I was saying in the Brit-in-Quebec thread, it just goes to show the yawning gulf between learning a language in elementary or secondary school, and actually being able to use it in real life.

Son and I have just now started learning Spanish together for going on holiday.  We're using the BBC schools, which is excellent, and are starting at primary level.  The gap between where we've started and where we need to get to does seem enormous

Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on September 07, 2009, 09:12:26 AM

Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 07, 2009, 06:31:53 AM

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on September 07, 2009, 06:10:21 AM
My Chinese is still extremely shitty.  However, I find I do have to use it a lot here in Nanjing, since most people (especially store and restaurant staff) usually literally don't speak a word of English, other than "hello" and "bye bye".

In the buildup to the 88 Olympics the Korean government embarked on a massive year-long training program and managed to teach most school children how to say "welcome to Korea."

And 20 years later, most can now manage "Hello", "What's your name?" "How are you?", and "Fine, thank you. And you?"
;)

they can probably say 'starcraft' and 'kekekekeke' too :p ;)

What if after the last decade in the US my english is better than my native spanish, how should I vote?  :P

Quote from: lustindarkness on September 07, 2009, 12:35:20 PM
What if after the last decade in the US my english is better than my native spanish, how should I vote?  :P

In your case, Jaron option.  :P

Dammit, I'm not allowed in Swedish class again this semester so my quest to try and say with full confidenece that I speak Swedish si going nowhere either <_<

Quote from: Martinus on September 06, 2009, 03:52:03 PM
Other than English, I speak some French and Russian. But English is the only language I speak fluently (shut up!).

Lol, okay Pavel.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 07, 2009, 01:09:32 PM

Quote from: lustindarkness on September 07, 2009, 12:35:20 PM
What if after the last decade in the US my english is better than my native spanish, how should I vote?  :P

In your case, Jaron option.  :P

Yo speak spanglish.

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on September 07, 2009, 06:10:21 AM
Not trying to pull a Don'tSayBanana, but the "correct" spelling in pinyin (i.e. modern, standardized Romanization) for Mandarin is "pu tong hua" or "pǔ ​tōng ​huà​" with the tones marked.

My Chinese is still extremely shitty.  However, I find I do have to use it a lot here in Nanjing, since most people (especially store and restaurant staff) usually literally don't speak a word of English, other than "hello" and "bye bye".

I wonder, would it be possible to learn to read Chinese without speaking a word of it?  I.e., just translating "random squiggly bullshit ideogram #82" as "house"?

Quote from: Ideologue on September 07, 2009, 03:39:07 PM

Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on September 07, 2009, 06:10:21 AM
Not trying to pull a Don'tSayBanana, but the "correct" spelling in pinyin (i.e. modern, standardized Romanization) for Mandarin is "pu tong hua" or "pǔ ​tōng ​huà​" with the tones marked.

My Chinese is still extremely shitty.  However, I find I do have to use it a lot here in Nanjing, since most people (especially store and restaurant staff) usually literally don't speak a word of English, other than "hello" and "bye bye".

I wonder, would it be possible to learn to read Chinese without speaking a word of it?  I.e., just translating "random squiggly bullshit ideogram #82" as "house"?

I'd imagine so to some level at least.
I still recognise a lot of Japanese kanji but can't remember the pronounciation for many.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 07, 2009, 03:39:07 PM
I wonder, would it be possible to learn to read Chinese without speaking a word of it?  I.e., just translating "random squiggly bullshit ideogram #82" as "house"?

Yup, to an extent. In fact, several different Chinese languages use the same written character set.

Maybe I should look into that.  I'm much better at visual symbol recognition than I am spoken language.  Like MB, spoken foreign speak is mostly "bar bar" to me.  Although I was able to understand the countdown in Russian when I watched 2010 last night, and knew what they were saying a few times.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 07, 2009, 05:57:53 PM
Although I was able to understand the countdown in Russian when I watched 2010 last night, and knew what they were saying a few times.

Why would you want to understand a language less graceful and more evil than the Black Speech of Mordor?

Quote from: Neil on September 07, 2009, 06:59:23 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 07, 2009, 05:57:53 PM
Although I was able to understand the countdown in Russian when I watched 2010 last night, and knew what they were saying a few times.

Why would you want to understand a language less graceful and more evil than the Black Speech of Mordor?

'Cause he's an evil Commie.

Quote from: Ideologue on September 07, 2009, 03:39:07 PM

I wonder, would it be possible to learn to read Chinese without speaking a word of it?  I.e., just translating "random squiggly bullshit ideogram #82" as "house"?

Of course you can.  But learning Chinese is much more difficult than that  :P  Primarily because you cannot translate "random ideogram #82" as "house".  It is more like when #28 is combined with #74, they  mean "house", but when #28 is used together with #17, they mean "river".

Quote from: Monoriu on September 07, 2009, 07:13:02 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 07, 2009, 03:39:07 PM

I wonder, would it be possible to learn to read Chinese without speaking a word of it?  I.e., just translating "random squiggly bullshit ideogram #82" as "house"?

Of course you can.  But learning Chinese is much more difficult than that  :P  Primarily because you cannot translate "random ideogram #82" as "house".  It is more like when #28 is combined with #74, they  mean "house", but when #28 is used together with #17, they mean "river".

So it's like math?  :P

Quote from: Tonitrus on September 08, 2009, 12:40:06 AM


So it's like math?  :P

Well, in math, you only have 0, 1, 2....9.  They mean different things when combined in different numbers and fashions. 

In English, you have 26 alphabets.

Chinese is sorta like a language with 3,000+ alphabets. 

Even the Chinese themselves realize how hard it is for their children to learn the language.  Pinyin/romanization is an attempt to change that.  There was once talk to replace the Chinese characters with western style alphabets many decades ago.  But it didn't get very far.  Pinyin now is more like a learning or programming tool. 

Quote from: Neil on September 07, 2009, 06:59:23 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 07, 2009, 05:57:53 PM
Although I was able to understand the countdown in Russian when I watched 2010 last night, and knew what they were saying a few times.

Why would you want to understand a language less graceful and more evil than the Black Speech of Mordor?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcIiwmclfvw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcIiwmclfvw)

I used to be.

Not anymore :weep:

Quote from: swallow on September 08, 2009, 07:39:29 AM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcIiwmclfvw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcIiwmclfvw)

I don't know what that is, but it's not Winnie the Pooh.

Quote from: The Larch on September 06, 2009, 06:18:08 AM
Besides Spanish and Galician, my mother tongues, and English, I'm fluent in Italian, can understand Portuguese pretty well, and remember a little bit of French from High School.

Since Galician is a dialect of (Northern) Portuguese or vice versa according to Galician nationalists, that's quite an understatement. Al-Gharb al-Andalus may see or hear things differently though.

As for me

Portuguese & French at native level.
Fluent English & Castillan
Some basic German (living in Frankfurt right now).

Good enough Latin for Nuntii Latini ;) 

Fluent in English.

Useless in anything else. Probably worse than useless.

Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 09, 2009, 03:08:23 PM

Quote from: The Larch on September 06, 2009, 06:18:08 AM
Besides Spanish and Galician, my mother tongues, and English, I'm fluent in Italian, can understand Portuguese pretty well, and remember a little bit of French from High School.

Since Galician is a dialect of (Northern) Portuguese or vice versa according to Galician nationalists, that's quite an understatement.

Only the nutters say that, and I think that bleak reality proves them very very wrong.  :P

Quote from: The Larch on September 09, 2009, 03:19:55 PM


Only the nutters say that, and I think that bleak reality proves them very very wrong.  :P

Should I have said some Galician Nationalists instead ?  :D

Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 09, 2009, 03:24:19 PM

Quote from: The Larch on September 09, 2009, 03:19:55 PM


Only the nutters say that, and I think that bleak reality proves them very very wrong.  :P

Should I have said some Galician Nationalists instead ?  :D

"A few" would have been even better.  ;)

Quote from: The Larch on September 09, 2009, 04:38:37 PM

Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 09, 2009, 03:24:19 PM

Quote from: The Larch on September 09, 2009, 03:19:55 PM


Only the nutters say that, and I think that bleak reality proves them very very wrong.  :P

Should I have said some Galician Nationalists instead ?  :D

"A few" would have been even better.  ;)

Como queiras Galego  :D

Quote from: Monoriu on September 07, 2009, 07:13:02 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 07, 2009, 03:39:07 PM

I wonder, would it be possible to learn to read Chinese without speaking a word of it?  I.e., just translating "random squiggly bullshit ideogram #82" as "house"?

Of course you can.  But learning Chinese is much more difficult than that  :P  Primarily because you cannot translate "random ideogram #82" as "house".  It is more like when #28 is combined with #74, they  mean "house", but when #28 is used together with #17, they mean "river".

This explains why China lost the Korean War. :P

Quote from: Neil on September 07, 2009, 06:59:23 PM

Quote from: Ideologue on September 07, 2009, 05:57:53 PM
Although I was able to understand the countdown in Russian when I watched 2010 last night, and knew what they were saying a few times.

Why would you want to understand a language less graceful and more evil than the Black Speech of Mordor?

:lol:

When I was still considering a grad program in history, passable Russian seemed like a good idea, since I wanted to deal with Soviet history.  As it stands now, I don't have the time to learn a language, if I ever really possessed the inclination, but I might come back to it one day, since it could be conceivably useful as a lawyer.  Russian would be a neat language to know if I dealt with international disputes--which are no doubt frequent, since, as I'm sure I don't have to tell you, the Russian has no concept of law. :P

In seriousness, I find Russian to be actually be a rather a pretty language.  All the sh's and ya's and whatnot.  Cyrillic looks cool, too.