Apparently, they've actually begin casting.
According to Martins webiste, they have Sean Bean as Ned (Boromir for those who are utterly clueless). The fat guy from Knights Tale as Robert Baratheon, and some kid I've never seen before as Jon.
I gotta say...Bean as Ned is a score, I think.
http://grrm.livejournal.com/
Yeah, but it will be incredibly annoying when the series catches up to the books and then stops.
Quote from: Berkut on July 31, 2009, 02:22:55 PM
Apparently, they've actually begin casting.
According to Martins webiste, they have Sean Bean as Ned (Boromir for those who are utterly clueless). The fat guy from Knights Tale as Robert Baratheon, and some kid I've never seen before as Jon.
I gotta say...Bean as Ned is a score, I think.
http://grrm.livejournal.com/
:thumbsup:
They'll probably run out money by the end of the third season.
I guess I should get around to finally reading these books.
if they are casting Bean as Ned it would be great if they could cast Daragh O'Malley as Yoren or something. They could have a scene together for all the Sharpe fans.
Nice, there's certainly lots of story in the books to provide content for a movie. Now, too bad that the author can't seem to complete the next book. Lots of story lines have been left hanging! :(
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 31, 2009, 02:25:42 PM
Quote from: Berkut on July 31, 2009, 02:22:55 PM
Apparently, they've actually begin casting.
According to Martins webiste, they have Sean Bean as Ned (Boromir for those who are utterly clueless). The fat guy from Knights Tale as Robert Baratheon, and some kid I've never seen before as Jon.
I gotta say...Bean as Ned is a score, I think.
http://grrm.livejournal.com/
:thumbsup:
They'll probably run out money by the end of the third season.
which is good, 'cause the series switches gears then into uncompleteness.
they can do a second series in 10-15 years, after GRRM dies. the good news is that they will be able to make up their own ending.
Quote from: saskganesh on July 31, 2009, 02:28:56 PM
if they are casting Bean as Ned it would be great if they could cast Daragh O'Malley as Yoren or something. They could have a scene together for all the Sharpe fans.
That would be great.
Bean was terrific in that series.
The cylon chick from Battlestar Galactica is rumoured to be cast as Cersei. I think she is a great pick.
Quote from: Berkut on July 31, 2009, 02:22:55 PM
I gotta say...Bean as Ned is a score, I think.
I dunno, Bean always seems to have something sinister lurking under the surface, don't think I'd have picked him for a goody-goody like Eddard Stark. He'd make a better Sandor in my opinion.
Quote from: Martinus on July 31, 2009, 02:46:01 PM
The cylon chick from Battlestar Galactica is rumoured to be cast as Cersei. I think she is a great pick.
Grace Park is pretty hot, but I don't think she'd make a good Cersei.
Quote from: Martinus on July 31, 2009, 02:46:01 PM
The cylon chick from Battlestar Galactica is rumoured to be cast as Cersei. I think she is a great pick.
She would be a awesome Cersei.
Also, Piter Dinklage is Tyrion. Not sure I remember him from anything though, but he does look familiar.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_JjTZojojDPI%2FSgFqtV6E2mI%2FAAAAAAAAAPw%2FCSt9CAaxYHQ%2Fs320%2Fpeterdinklage_tyrol.jpg&hash=0595d6b0404010ccab8d1201362de19ad60ecf7c)
I have been watching the second season of Tudors, btw. It seems better than the first one - but maybe I just got over the historical accuracy and just enjoying it for its soapy goodness.
I wonder if its success will detract or help Game of Thrones, since it is in many ways similar.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on July 31, 2009, 02:50:37 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 31, 2009, 02:46:01 PM
The cylon chick from Battlestar Galactica is rumoured to be cast as Cersei. I think she is a great pick.
Grace Park is pretty hot, but I don't think she'd make a good Cersei.
I think she would be awesome. I admit I haven't seen her outside of Battlestar Galactica, but her hot looks coupled with cylon coldness/ruthlessness make a perfect Cersei, imho.
Quote from: Martinus on July 31, 2009, 02:54:38 PM
I have been watching the second season of Tudors, btw. It seems better than the first one - but maybe I just got over the historical accuracy and just enjoying it for its soapy goodness.
I wonder if its success will detract or help Game of Thrones, since it is in many ways similar.
Since game of thrones is already full of soapy goodness I think it will fit into the genre much better. IIRC the pitch for the series was Lord of the Rings meets The Sopranos.
Ok, here are the confirmed cast picks, from http://winter-is-coming.blogspot.com/
Tyrion:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_JjTZojojDPI%2FSm3tgHZH7bI%2FAAAAAAAAAbg%2FpDoYGJmaVio%2Fs400%2Fpeter-dinklage.jpg&hash=d6481a5b38a7e807eccf6868ce3c543cf2678c96)
Ned Stark:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_JjTZojojDPI%2FSm3wBvb5QAI%2FAAAAAAAAAbo%2FlAYKGtDfX2I%2Fs400%2Fsean%2Bbean.jpg&hash=d5551c2b08e3e4e70f4763c3bd3a255c0e3a3296)
Robert Baratheon:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_JjTZojojDPI%2FSm3zFHcJIhI%2FAAAAAAAAAbw%2FMCX-vFIBFQ4%2Fs400%2Fmark%2Baddy.jpg&hash=33a36c06bf510daad1863c8b7b6a8919f6e5b30a)
Viserys Targaryen:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_JjTZojojDPI%2FSm34RJfhmgI%2FAAAAAAAAAb4%2FUq5vUBlsDj8%2Fs400%2Fharry%2Blloyd.jpg&hash=64cfaff4ea88c8059acc580d21ebfa253139e7e8)
Jon Snow:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_JjTZojojDPI%2FSm36sC8rthI%2FAAAAAAAAAcA%2FpVoM04iBv_s%2Fs400%2Fkit%2Bharington.jpg&hash=9d3bfeb5e986ef30d001b0658c187c674dfec687)
Joffrey Baratheon/Lannister:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F_JjTZojojDPI%2FSm39ugeyTfI%2FAAAAAAAAAcI%2F3RWhIUfWgb0%2Fs400%2Fjack%2Bgleeson.jpg&hash=182f9da6ce7f3b74534283dc22af61eba9402bdb)
Quote from: Berkut on July 31, 2009, 02:22:55 PM
Apparently, they've actually begin casting.
According to Martins webiste, they have Sean Bean as Ned (Boromir for those who are utterly clueless). The fat guy from Knights Tale as Robert Baratheon, and some kid I've never seen before as Jon.
I gotta say...Bean as Ned is a score, I think.
http://grrm.livejournal.com/
I must say I have imagined Ned as somewhat different than Sean Bean - a bit more slim and dark-haired. But he is a great pick, nonetheless.
Oh and all the teenage girls will be in love with the Jon Snow dude. He is the type and the role is so emo. Hell, he may out-do Lególasss and Drisźzt when it comes to MMORPG character names. :P
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on July 31, 2009, 02:50:37 PM
Grace Park is pretty hot, but I don't think she'd make a good Cersei.
Do you really mean Grace Park (left) and not Tricia Helfer (right)? The latter looks quite Cersei-like.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.galactica.tv%2Ftemplates%2FMAD%2Fimages%2Fgrace-park-8.jpg&hash=d4f23167a66cd45b04a39681db347013f1dd48ce)
Quote from: Zanza on July 31, 2009, 03:05:22 PM
Do you really mean Grace Park (left) and not Tricia Helfer (right)? The latter looks quite Cersei-like.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.galactica.tv%2Ftemplates%2FMAD%2Fimages%2Fgrace-park-8.jpg&hash=d4f23167a66cd45b04a39681db347013f1dd48ce)
Yes Six would make an awsome Cirsei. :yes:
EDIT: and that John Snow boy is delicious :mmm:
G.
Quote from: Zanza on July 31, 2009, 03:05:22 PM
Do you really mean Grace Park
Yes
I think the monster from Troy would make a good Gregor
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hotflick.net%2Fflicks%2F2004_Troy%2F004TRO_Nathan_Jones_002.jpg&hash=5297f6ffb507265a452cb5c82ddfe50065454520)
Quote from: saskganesh on July 31, 2009, 02:31:12 PM
they can do a second series in 10-15 years, after GRRM dies. the good news is that they will be able to make up their own ending.
Do you really think that guy will live that long?
Quote from: Zanza on July 31, 2009, 03:05:22 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on July 31, 2009, 02:50:37 PM
Grace Park is pretty hot, but I don't think she'd make a good Cersei.
Do you really mean Grace Park (left) and not Tricia Helfer (right)? The latter looks quite Cersei-like.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.galactica.tv%2Ftemplates%2FMAD%2Fimages%2Fgrace-park-8.jpg&hash=d4f23167a66cd45b04a39681db347013f1dd48ce)
Dang, that Asian girl looks like she has a 14 inch waist.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on July 31, 2009, 03:26:22 PM
Dang, that Asian girl looks like she has a 14 inch waist.
35-23-34 :)
Quote from: Neil on July 31, 2009, 03:23:57 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on July 31, 2009, 02:31:12 PM
they can do a second series in 10-15 years, after GRRM dies. the good news is that they will be able to make up their own ending.
Do you really think that guy will live that long?
with sufficient naps, yea.
he certainly will not die of overwork. writer's block, which seems to be his chronic condition, is really a euphemism for "not writing."
:nerd: :nerd: :nerd:
I don't like the cast.
Emily Osment should play Cercei, Miley Cyrus should play Catherine, Selina Gomez should be Sansa, and Demi Lovato should be Dyarreah Targaryen.
Quote from: Siege on July 31, 2009, 04:30:32 PM
I don't like the cast.
Emily Osment should play Cercei
Okay, you're trolling us this time, I'm sure of it.
Quote from: Siege on July 31, 2009, 04:30:32 PM
I don't like the cast.
Emily Osment should play Cercei, Miley Cyrus should play Catherine, Selina Gomez should be Sansa, and Demi Lovato should be Dyarreah Targaryen.
Which foetus would play Aria Stark?
Siege wishes every movie was like Bugsy Malone.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 31, 2009, 04:32:15 PM
Quote from: Siege on July 31, 2009, 04:30:32 PM
I don't like the cast.
Emily Osment should play Cercei
Okay, you're trolling us this time, I'm sure of it.
He's always trolling us. :D
The Wig Commander have defeated me.
we are going to have a big problem with rickon bran arya and the other lanister kid
Quote from: Zanza on July 31, 2009, 03:05:22 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on July 31, 2009, 02:50:37 PM
Grace Park is pretty hot, but I don't think she'd make a good Cersei.
Do you really mean Grace Park (left) and not Tricia Helfer (right)? The latter looks quite Cersei-like.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.galactica.tv%2Ftemplates%2FMAD%2Fimages%2Fgrace-park-8.jpg&hash=d4f23167a66cd45b04a39681db347013f1dd48ce)
Yes, I obviously meant the chick on the right. No idea why Disturbed Pervert thought they'd cast a dark-haired Asian girl as Cersei. :huh:
Quote from: Siege on July 31, 2009, 04:53:01 PM
The Wig Commander have defeated me.
:o Siege is a Kilrathi spy!
Quote from: ulmont on July 31, 2009, 02:25:03 PM
Yeah, but it will be incredibly annoying when the series catches up to the books and then stops.
Yeah that will be about 10 years from now.
That looks like great casting so far.
The tough part is going to be Brandon Stark and the other kids. Arya especially.
Edit: Ooops beaten out by Kenny.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 31, 2009, 05:35:02 PM
Quote from: Siege on July 31, 2009, 04:53:01 PM
The Wig Commander have defeated me.
:o Siege is a Kilrathi spy!
Siege is always a spy. He'd sell us out to the Kzinti, given the opportunity.
I am curious about recommending the series to my 15 year old daughter; she loves to read and seems to like fantasy/sci-fi settings. Any thoughts?
I think the detailed descriptions of Tyrion's throbbing purple cock could scar her for life and make her a lesbian.
Quote from: sbr on July 31, 2009, 09:16:12 PM
I am curious about recommending the series to my 15 year old daughter; she loves to read and seems to like fantasy/sci-fi settings. Any thoughts?
Is she into gritty feudal violence? The series is chock full of murder, incest and rape of underage girls.
Not what most Dad's would recommend for 15 year old girl.
Give us an example of some of the things she's liked already.
Quote from: sbr on July 31, 2009, 09:16:12 PM
I am curious about recommending the series to my 15 year old daughter; she loves to read and seems to like fantasy/sci-fi settings. Any thoughts?
Have her read something girlfriendly like Robert Jordan first.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on July 31, 2009, 09:19:12 PM
I think the detailed descriptions of Tyrion's throbbing purple cock could scar her for life and make her a lesbian.
Or develop a dwarf fetish.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on July 31, 2009, 09:19:12 PM
I think the detailed descriptions of Tyrion's throbbing purple cock could scar her for life and make her a lesbian.
Quote from: jimmy olsenIs she into gritty feudal violence? The series is chock full of murder, incest and rape of underage girls.
Not what most Dad's would recommend for 15 year old girl.
Give us an example of some of the things she's liked already.
:o
Thankfully I asked. I have not read one word of the series so I didn't know. Thanks. :blush:
Quote from: sbr on July 31, 2009, 09:28:20 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on July 31, 2009, 09:19:12 PM
I think the detailed descriptions of Tyrion's throbbing purple cock could scar her for life and make her a lesbian.
Quote from: jimmy olsenIs she into gritty feudal violence? The series is chock full of murder, incest and rape of underage girls.
Not what most Dad's would recommend for 15 year old girl.
Give us an example of some of the things she's liked already.
:o
Thankfully I asked. I have not read one word of the series so I didn't know. Thanks. :blush:
It's pretty famous for being a brutal setting where the bad/crazy/and morally ambiguous almost always win out over the guys who are kind of good.
Quote from: sbr on July 31, 2009, 09:28:20 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsenIs she into gritty feudal violence? The series is chock full of murder, incest and rape of underage girls.
:o
Thankfully I asked. I have not read one word of the series so I didn't know. Thanks. :blush:
I think Tim oversold that a bit, but I wouldn't recommend it. You might want to check out this post, which has a bunch of recommendations for a 13-year old girl (most of which are pretty good fantasy and sci-fi novels for adults): http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=48943 (the full suggestion list is in the comments to http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=34830 )
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 31, 2009, 09:34:11 PM
It's pretty famous for being a brutal setting where the bad/crazy/and morally ambiguous almost always win out over the guys who are kind of good.
No better time to learn how the world works than now.
Quote from: ulmont on July 31, 2009, 09:35:04 PM
No better time to learn how the world works than now.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Quote from: grumbler on July 31, 2009, 09:43:57 PM
Quote from: ulmont on July 31, 2009, 09:35:04 PM
No better time to learn how the world works than now.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage than a new system. For the initiator has the enmity of all who would profit by the preservation of the old institution and merely lukewarm defenders in those who gain by the new ones.
The center really can't hold?
Quote from: grumbler on July 31, 2009, 09:43:57 PM
Quote from: ulmont on July 31, 2009, 09:35:04 PM
No better time to learn how the world works than now.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on July 31, 2009, 10:05:21 PM
The center really can't hold?
Things fall apart.
And will be lost in time
Like tears in rain.
Time to die?
Quote from: ulmont on July 31, 2009, 10:27:37 PM
Time to die?
Go right ahead. :cool:
You lead, I'll follow.
Quote from: sbr on July 31, 2009, 09:28:20 PM
Thankfully I asked. I have not read one word of the series so I didn't know. Thanks. :blush:
I think they overstate a bit how "chock full" of it the series is but yes those elements are there.
I swear some people describe the series as if there is a brutal underage rape by dwarfs with huge cocks on every page.
It is a great series but it is really something for the 18+ crowd.
You know what's sad? Yeats poem reminds me of the lament of the Rohrim.
Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.
Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning,
Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?
I R pathetic. :(
Yeats is talking more about fear of the future, while Tolkien is more about the glories of the past (as befitted an unreconstructed Romantic who thought blood more important than ability). They are comparable in the sense that they both thought the future was not going to be as good as the past, but they thought so for very different reasons.
Quote from: Valmy on July 31, 2009, 05:39:39 PM
That looks like great casting so far.
The tough part is going to be Brandon Stark and the other kids. Arya especially.
Edit: Ooops beaten out by Kenny.
IN YOUR FACE!!!1111oneone
Rickon has no pov in the books and later forgets how to talk so as a supporting actor, it really doesn't matter. just a child with a shaggy wolf.
will they age some of the kids? if Arya is a teenager, she could have her own spin off series.
George R. R. Martin is the next generation Michael Moorcock. Some pretty cool shit the first read through, but the more you look at it... the stupider it gets.
Wow, talk about idiots who never had kids weighing in on what a 15 y.o. shouldn't read.
A 15 y.o. is not a child. It's the high school age. People who are 15 can watch movies like "Watchmen", "Fight Club" or "Tudors", and high school curricula include books like "Lord of Flies", "Catcher in the Rye" or "Macbeth".
Retards, seriously. :rolleyes:
Quote from: ulmont on July 31, 2009, 09:34:22 PM
Quote from: sbr on July 31, 2009, 09:28:20 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsenIs she into gritty feudal violence? The series is chock full of murder, incest and rape of underage girls.
:o
Thankfully I asked. I have not read one word of the series so I didn't know. Thanks. :blush:
I think Tim oversold that a bit, but I wouldn't recommend it. You might want to check out this post, which has a bunch of recommendations for a 13-year old girl (most of which are pretty good fantasy and sci-fi novels for adults): http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=48943 (the full suggestion list is in the comments to http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=34830 )
It's for a 13 y.o., for fucks sake. A 15 y.o. has more in common with 18 y.o., in terms of a psychological development, than with a 13 y.o.
Seriously, I'm disappointed with some of you in this thread. Sure, Tim is a known retard and a waste of biomass (that could be used for more useful purposes, such as fuel) but I had a better opinion of the rest of you. Valmy, people like you end up throwing controversial books out of the school library. Shameful.
Quote from: Martinus on August 01, 2009, 02:17:53 AM
Sure, Tim is a known retard and a waste of biomass (that could be used for more useful purposes, such as fuel) but I had a better opinion of the rest of you.
Even me?
Quote from: Martinus on August 01, 2009, 02:17:53 AM
Seriously, I'm disappointed with some of you in this thread. Sure, Tim is a known retard and a waste of biomass (that could be used for more useful purposes, such as fuel) but I had a better opinion of the rest of you. Valmy, people like you end up throwing controversial books out of the school library. Shameful.
You want her to turn lesbian, don't you.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 31, 2009, 02:27:58 PM
I guess I should get around to finally reading these books.
Don't bother. Starts strong, then develops a strong case of Jordanitis.
I almost skipped this thread, but the unexpected Marti hissy fit makes it all worthwhile.
Quote from: Martinus on August 01, 2009, 02:12:37 AM
Quote from: ulmont on July 31, 2009, 09:34:22 PM
Quote from: sbr on July 31, 2009, 09:28:20 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsenIs she into gritty feudal violence? The series is chock full of murder, incest and rape of underage girls.
:o
Thankfully I asked. I have not read one word of the series so I didn't know. Thanks. :blush:
I think Tim oversold that a bit, but I wouldn't recommend it. You might want to check out this post, which has a bunch of recommendations for a 13-year old girl (most of which are pretty good fantasy and sci-fi novels for adults): http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=48943 (the full suggestion list is in the comments to http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=34830 )
It's for a 13 y.o., for fucks sake. A 15 y.o. has more in common with 18 y.o., in terms of a psychological development, than with a 13 y.o.
You just use that as an excuse to rape them.
First of all 13 year olds are much much more robust than you people imagine. The absolutely greatest childrens book are about the nastiest topics. Fairy tales are usually about murder, cannibalism and rape. Jordan is just a better way get her interested, most of the main characters are female and the male characters are usually just tossing about on a sea of female intrigue regardless of their status as game changing heros.
Quote from: Martinus on August 01, 2009, 02:12:37 AM
Quote from: ulmont on July 31, 2009, 09:34:22 PM
Quote from: sbr on July 31, 2009, 09:28:20 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsenIs she into gritty feudal violence? The series is chock full of murder, incest and rape of underage girls.
:o
Thankfully I asked. I have not read one word of the series so I didn't know. Thanks. :blush:
I think Tim oversold that a bit, but I wouldn't recommend it. You might want to check out this post, which has a bunch of recommendations for a 13-year old girl (most of which are pretty good fantasy and sci-fi novels for adults): http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=48943 (the full suggestion list is in the comments to http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=34830 )
It's for a 13 y.o., for fucks sake. A 15 y.o. has more in common with 18 y.o., in terms of a psychological development, than with a 13 y.o.
Did you not read the part where I noted that "most of [the recommendations] are pretty good fantasy and sci-fi novels
for adults?" (emphasis added)
That list has some good suggestions.
The Dragonriders of Pern was the first thing that popped into my mind when sbr asked for suggestions.
EDIT: Oh and Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson would be great I think, it has strong female lead.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 01, 2009, 06:55:09 AM
I almost skipped this thread, but the unexpected Marti hissy fit makes it all worthwhile.
See, that is why I scan the threads I shouldn't like but that keep going on...there is always a good "moment" somewhere in there...
Quote from: sbr on July 31, 2009, 09:16:12 PM
I am curious about recommending the series to my 15 year old daughter; she loves to read and seems to like fantasy/sci-fi settings. Any thoughts?
Try the Belgariad by Eddings. It is harmless.
Quote from: PDH on August 01, 2009, 09:09:37 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 01, 2009, 06:55:09 AM
I almost skipped this thread, but the unexpected Marti hissy fit makes it all worthwhile.
See, that is why I scan the threads I shouldn't like but that keep going on...there is always a good "moment" somewhere in there...
I especially liked the throwing books out of a library part.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 01, 2009, 09:13:21 AM
Quote from: sbr on July 31, 2009, 09:16:12 PM
I am curious about recommending the series to my 15 year old daughter; she loves to read and seems to like fantasy/sci-fi settings. Any thoughts?
Try the Belgariad by Eddings. It is harmless.
I read that around that age (a little younger I think). Light fun for a middle schooler.
Quote from: Scipio on August 01, 2009, 06:49:55 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 31, 2009, 02:27:58 PM
I guess I should get around to finally reading these books.
Don't bother. Starts strong, then develops a strong case of Jordanitis.
The author dies?
Quote from: Razgovory on August 01, 2009, 10:11:39 AM
Quote from: Scipio on August 01, 2009, 06:49:55 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 31, 2009, 02:27:58 PM
I guess I should get around to finally reading these books.
Don't bother. Starts strong, then develops a strong case of Jordanitis.
The author dies?
Universe description masturbation which stops the progress of the story arc.
Quote from: ulmont on July 31, 2009, 09:34:22 PM
I think Tim oversold that a bit, but I wouldn't recommend it. You might want to check out this post, which has a bunch of recommendations for a 13-year old girl (most of which are pretty good fantasy and sci-fi novels for adults): http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=48943 (the full suggestion list is in the comments to http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=34830 )
How about Dune? I read it at about age 13 and I ended up
totally obsessed with desert peoples, desert ecology, comparative religion, linguistics, anthropology and middle eastern women okay.
Quote from: Martinus on August 01, 2009, 02:12:37 AM
It's for a 13 y.o., for fucks sake. A 15 y.o. has more in common with 18 y.o., in terms of a psychological development, than with a 13 y.o.
Obviously this is open to variation far more than you are putting it. I was reading 1984 and Dune by age 13, but emotionally at age 15 I wasn't anywhere near where I was at 18.
Quote from: Queequeg on August 01, 2009, 11:05:57 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 01, 2009, 02:12:37 AM
It's for a 13 y.o., for fucks sake. A 15 y.o. has more in common with 18 y.o., in terms of a psychological development, than with a 13 y.o.
but emotionally at age 15 I wasn't anywhere near where I was at 18.
Yes, but not everyone has to cope with their sanity deteriorating at that pace.
Quote from: Martinus on August 01, 2009, 11:09:57 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on August 01, 2009, 11:05:57 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 01, 2009, 02:12:37 AM
It's for a 13 y.o., for fucks sake. A 15 y.o. has more in common with 18 y.o., in terms of a psychological development, than with a 13 y.o.
but emotionally at age 15 I wasn't anywhere near where I was at 18.
Yes, but not everyone has to cope with their sanity deteriorating at that pace.
Your pace was much faster than that, right? :P
Quote from: Martinus on August 01, 2009, 11:09:57 AM
Yes, but not everyone has to cope with their sanity deteriorating at that pace.
:D
I've become quite a bit saner in my time here, for largely unrelated reasons. Just go back to some of my old posts on Paradox, stupid stuff.
Quote from: Queequeg on August 01, 2009, 02:34:12 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 01, 2009, 11:09:57 AM
Yes, but not everyone has to cope with their sanity deteriorating at that pace.
:D
I've become quite a bit saner in my time here, for largely unrelated reasons. Just go back to some of my old posts on Paradox, stupid stuff.
Why go back that far ? We like our Queequeg stupid nice and fresh and boy oh boy , do you deliver or what?!
Quote from: Scipio on August 01, 2009, 06:49:55 AM
Don't bother. Starts strong, then develops a strong case of Jordanitis.
Eh, not really. Jordan lost his way but kept on writing, Martin lost his way and pretty much stopped.
Quote from: Queequeg on August 01, 2009, 11:05:57 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 01, 2009, 02:12:37 AM
It's for a 13 y.o., for fucks sake. A 15 y.o. has more in common with 18 y.o., in terms of a psychological development, than with a 13 y.o.
Obviously this is open to variation far more than you are putting it. I was reading 1984 and Dune by age 13, but emotionally at age 15 I wasn't anywhere near where I was at 18.
I never matured emotionally beyond 15. I'm almost 28 now! :lol:
Quote from: Razgovory on August 01, 2009, 06:09:43 PM
I never matured emotionally beyond 15.
Neither have Marty or Psellus(or myself), this whole discussion is theoretical.
I act out my age.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 01, 2009, 06:23:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 01, 2009, 06:09:43 PM
I never matured emotionally beyond 15.
Neither have Marty or Psellus(or myself), this whole discussion is theoretical.
Yeah but I'm gay. I'm not supposed to mature emotionally beyond 15. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 01, 2009, 06:23:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 01, 2009, 06:09:43 PM
I never matured emotionally beyond 15.
Neither have Marty or Psellus(or myself), this whole discussion is theoretical.
Might as well just say 1/2 of Languish.
I think it will be very important that Jaime and Cersei are similar, if they are just blond and good looking that pair will lose their "magic"
What was I reading when I was 15?
Sci-fi. I hated fantasy. I read The Hobbit when I was like 10, but didn't read LOTR until I got word the movies were coming out.
Quote from: Siege on August 02, 2009, 12:53:02 AM
What was I reading when I was 15?
Sci-fi. I hated fantasy. I read The Hobbit when I was like 10, but didn't read LOTR until I got word the movies were coming out.
Ah, I guess you got hooked after reading the Talmud.
Mannen dricker, kvinnan ater.
Quote from: Siege on August 02, 2009, 01:07:10 AM
Mannen dricker, kvinnan ater.
Translation?
I skipped my sand nigger lessons in high school. I took Arabic instead, as it is more cultural and intellectually relevant.
Quote from: Jaron on August 02, 2009, 01:16:19 AM
Quote from: Siege on August 02, 2009, 01:07:10 AM
Mannen dricker, kvinnan ater.
Translation?
I skipped my sand nigger lessons in high school. I took Arabic instead, as it is more cultural and intellectually relevant.
That was swedish, from the Rossetta Stone freebie online.
Translate it anyways, raghead. :P
I don't fucking know what it means!!!
A program came up, played some pictures, and all the sudden I was speaking in swedish.
http://www.rosettastone.com/personal/demo
I love you siege. You are funny, and you have the curiousity and innocence of a child. :hug:
Quote from: Siege on August 02, 2009, 01:07:10 AM
Mannen dricker, kvinnan ater.
The man drinks, the woman eats.
Really?
Quote from: Siege on August 02, 2009, 02:35:25 AM
Really?
Way, though I think your software really should get it right with umlauts.
Mannen dricker, kvinnan äter.
I am a latecomer to this thread.
Has anyone else made a joke about them releasing one episode, and then waiting six years to release a second one, so that the fans will feel a powerful connection to the novels? :)
Quote from: Martinus on August 01, 2009, 02:07:47 AM
Wow, talk about idiots who never had kids weighing in on what a 15 y.o. shouldn't read.
A 15 y.o. is not a child. It's the high school age. People who are 15 can watch movies like "Watchmen", "Fight Club" or "Tudors", and high school curricula include books like "Lord of Flies", "Catcher in the Rye" or "Macbeth".
Retards, seriously. :rolleyes:
lolirony
Quote from: Caliga on August 03, 2009, 08:24:34 AM
I am a latecomer to this thread.
Has anyone else made a joke about them releasing one episode, and then waiting six years to release a second one, so that the fans will feel a powerful connection to the novels? :)
I think this is going to be done more like Dexter or True Blood. One book being one season of TV. So We'll have 3 seasons then wait for a few years and then have one more season then wait for a few years etc.etc.
Quote from: sbr on July 31, 2009, 09:16:12 PM
I am curious about recommending the series to my 15 year old daughter; she loves to read and seems to like fantasy/sci-fi settings. Any thoughts?
Read the first book. If you think she can handle that, she'll be okay with the series. The first book isn't horrible, but it's a pretty good indicator of where the series goes. I'd have no problem letting my 15-year-old boys read it, but they're reading
Kite Runner for their class this fall.
Quote from: sbr on July 31, 2009, 09:16:12 PM
I am curious about recommending the series to my 15 year old daughter; she loves to read and seems to like fantasy/sci-fi settings. Any thoughts?
I just started the first book on the weekend. In the first few chapters a brother, who would normally marry his sister, forces her to seduce a barbarian so that the barbarian will help the brother regain his kingdom. The brother tells her something along the lines that he would allow the barbarian's whole army to "fuck" her, including their horses, if it would help regain his crown.
So no. I wouldnt if I was you.
Quote from: merithyn on August 03, 2009, 09:54:38 PM
but they're reading Kite Runner for their class this fall.
I dont see the parallel.
Being forced to read Kite Runner? My condolences to those kids.
In the little I have read so far it seems to me that Sean Bean will make a great Ned.
More casting choices done:
Arya:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpics.livejournal.com%2Fgrrm%2Fpic%2F00067h4r%2Fs320x240&hash=faa01cb1500f1a73f76696bc971b33dbb8382242)
Sansa:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpics.livejournal.com%2Fgrrm%2Fpic%2F00068zys%2Fs320x240&hash=daaf7caaead4e6d56d5eb05a04df3a4e3d14a9bf)
I don't know either actress (they are both very young of course) but I certainly think tehy both *look* their parts very well. Especially Sansa.
Ser Jorah Mormont is Ian Glen, another Brit:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpics.livejournal.com%2Fgrrm%2Fpic%2F00065hh1%2Fs320x240&hash=0a1704627f2c4861a41317347434c198244cc328)
Shrug. I guess he has experience wearing armor in movies? Great.
Lastly, Danys is played by Tamzin Merchant:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpics.livejournal.com%2Fgrrm%2Fpic%2F000638b1%2Fs320x240&hash=e84f0e6fe217135c156ae5488742b9bace033fa7)
Excellent. Martins comments about her are rather amusing:
Quote from: GeorgeThePervDany is very difficult role. She starts out vulnerable and scared, but blooms on the Dothraki sea, and becomes a powerful leader by book's end. It's no secret that HBO's Dany will start out older than Dany does in the book; that was a change that had to be made, if we wanted to keep the sex scenes, and David and Dan and I were all agreed that the sex scenes were essential. Tamzin can play much younger than her actual age (as she does when playing Katheryn) and her sex scenes on THE TUDORS were as hot as anything I've ever seen on TV. In her readings, she showed Dany's other side as well, commanding and charismatic after Drogo's death. I think she'll be marvelous.
:blush:
Quoteher sex scenes on THE TUDORS were as hot as anything I've ever seen on TV.
Goddamn pervert.
Quote from: Berkut on August 26, 2009, 10:24:15 AMI don't know either actress (they are both very young of course) but I certainly think tehy both *look* their parts very well. Especially Sansa.
Isn't she supposed to be a redhead?
Jaime Lannister:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn1.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3A7TOd6rRPmd5cSM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fi292.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm28%2Fchiefchirpa%2FNikolaj-Coster-Waldau-profile.jpg&hash=0b01fddad3204e17cb91dafe96af444561e3f601)
Kind of a Harrison Ford look, but doesn't seem like enough of a pretty-boy for Jaime.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 26, 2009, 10:29:45 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 26, 2009, 10:24:15 AMI don't know either actress (they are both very young of course) but I certainly think tehy both *look* their parts very well. Especially Sansa.
Isn't she supposed to be a redhead?
I suspect that they can, if they like, dye her hair.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 26, 2009, 10:25:55 AM
Quoteher sex scenes on THE TUDORS were as hot as anything I've ever seen on TV.
Goddamn pervert.
I am glad to see you taking a strong stand against unpure thoughts.
Those actors/actresses look the parts, mainly especially the females. Jaime may be ok, and Mormont I guess though I kind of forget, but I recall the name.
Quote from: KRonn on August 26, 2009, 11:27:04 AM
Those actors/actresses look the parts, mainly especially the females. Jaime may be ok, and Mormont I guess though I kind of forget, but I recall the name.
Mormont is the exile who is in Dany's camp. He's loyal because he's in love with her. He has a history of bad relationship choices.
Looking good in armor? If he knows swordplay, which is a real stage skill, that's part of it.
Quote from: saskganesh on August 26, 2009, 11:51:38 AM
Quote from: KRonn on August 26, 2009, 11:27:04 AM
Those actors/actresses look the parts, mainly especially the females. Jaime may be ok, and Mormont I guess though I kind of forget, but I recall the name.
Mormont is the exile who is in Dany's camp. He's loyal because he's in love with her. He has a history of bad relationship choices.
Looking good in armor? If he knows swordplay, which is a real stage skill, that's part of it.
Ah, ok. JRRM needs to come out with more books so I can get re-familiarized! Although, seems the movie will be out long before any more books. I do remember the story line and many/most characters pretty well though; I really liked the books and have been craving for more. But it's been a couple of years since I read the last book.
My mental image of Danys is different but I will wait to see what wardrobe and makeup does.
Good choices for Stark's girls. Close to what I had pictured in my mind. Jaimie Lanister could be good as well.
Quote from: Berkut on August 26, 2009, 10:31:40 AM
Jaime Lannister:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn1.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3A7TOd6rRPmd5cSM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fi292.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm28%2Fchiefchirpa%2FNikolaj-Coster-Waldau-profile.jpg&hash=0b01fddad3204e17cb91dafe96af444561e3f601)
Kind of a Harrison Ford look, but doesn't seem like enough of a pretty-boy for Jaime.
Loras is the pretty-boy. I see Jaime as a more dangerous type, especially after the last couple of books. A lion if you will.
Quote from: Maximus on August 26, 2009, 12:50:32 PM
I see Jaime as a more dangerous type, especially after the last couple of books. A lion if you will.
I agree, this is the impression I get even in the first book.
Quote from: Maximus on August 26, 2009, 12:50:32 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 26, 2009, 10:31:40 AM
Jaime Lannister:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn1.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3A7TOd6rRPmd5cSM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fi292.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm28%2Fchiefchirpa%2FNikolaj-Coster-Waldau-profile.jpg&hash=0b01fddad3204e17cb91dafe96af444561e3f601)
Kind of a Harrison Ford look, but doesn't seem like enough of a pretty-boy for Jaime.
Loras is the pretty-boy. I see Jaime as a more dangerous type, especially after the last couple of books. A lion if you will.
I see Jaime as a pretty boy who turns out to be a complete bad ass. Brad Pitt would be perfect, for example.
Quote from: KRonn on August 26, 2009, 12:04:49 PMAlthough, seems the movie will be out long before any more books.
A year per book, so at least 3 years to finish the next one, 4 if Feast for Crows is considered a whole book. The show will probably be canceled by then anyway.
Sansa looks very much like one of the Harry Potter films girl.
Looks a lot like Luna Lovegood
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on August 26, 2009, 01:39:14 PM
Looks a lot like Luna Lovegood
Yeah that's it. Pity it isn't her (as I orginally thought), could have diverted some of the enormous HP fan base toward the series
Quote from: saskganesh on August 26, 2009, 11:51:38 AM
Quote from: KRonn on August 26, 2009, 11:27:04 AM
Those actors/actresses look the parts, mainly especially the females. Jaime may be ok, and Mormont I guess though I kind of forget, but I recall the name.
Mormont is the exile who is in Dany's camp. He's loyal because he's in love with her. He has a history of bad relationship choices.
Looking good in armor? If he knows swordplay, which is a real stage skill, that's part of it.
Plus he's a spy for the Baratheons that's why he starts following her, then he falls in love and confesses his betrayal.
Who's playing Ned?
Quote from: Sahib on August 26, 2009, 01:41:15 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on August 26, 2009, 01:39:14 PM
Looks a lot like Luna Lovegood
Yeah that's it. Pity it isn't her (as I orginally thought), could have diverted some of the enormous HP fan base toward the series
Why would that be a good thing?
Quote from: Siege on August 26, 2009, 02:04:45 PM
Why would that be a good thing?
Normally people think that financial success is a good thing.
Well, yeah.
Quote from: Siege on August 26, 2009, 02:04:45 PM
Quote from: Sahib on August 26, 2009, 01:41:15 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on August 26, 2009, 01:39:14 PM
Looks a lot like Luna Lovegood
Yeah that's it. Pity it isn't her (as I orginally thought), could have diverted some of the enormous HP fan base toward the series
Why would that be a good thing?
Needs to be very popular to avoid being canceled. This is gonna be an expensive series.
Here's Cersie. Lena Headey from that Terminator tv show, which I've never seen.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpics.livejournal.com%2Fgrrm%2Fpic%2F0006aw6c&hash=551aeb9a25b85538e40c92a111e3188af1e1e531)
From looking at her pics on GIS they're going to have to give her implants.
She hasn't really played any sultry, childish, femme fatales.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 26, 2009, 10:29:45 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 26, 2009, 10:24:15 AMI don't know either actress (they are both very young of course) but I certainly think tehy both *look* their parts very well. Especially Sansa.
Isn't she supposed to be a redhead?
Auburn, so brownish-red.
But yeah, I agree with Berkut. They look perfect for their roles. Now the only question is, can they act passably?
I suppose there will be one season per year.
So what happens when the TV series catches up with the books? :lol:
Quote from: Monoriu on September 03, 2009, 05:10:39 AM
I suppose there will be one season per year.
So what happens when the TV series catches up with the books? :lol:
The author will be dead by then... So they'll start on Robert Jordan.
Quote from: Monoriu on September 03, 2009, 05:10:39 AM
I suppose there will be one season per year.
So what happens when the TV series catches up with the books? :lol:
they'll end the series.
Quote from: Monoriu on September 03, 2009, 05:10:39 AM
I suppose there will be one season per year.
So what happens when the TV series catches up with the books? :lol:
They have material for 4 seasons, and given HBO's track record with high budgeted series (Rome, Deadwood), they'll pull the plug after 2 or 3.
Stunning looking actress playing Cersei. She would seem to look the part, as long as she can act it out as ruthlessly and coolly as Cersei did, or tried to do before things she got caught in her own web. Still waiting for the next book to see what happens to her, one of the most powerful women locked away in a religious order's cells, an order that she helped to become powerful again, so they could unwittingly serve her own ends.
I was watching Harry Potter last night - me and the wife watched the first 5 movies all in a row, since we had never seen them before.
The casting in that is largely terrible. Harry is fine, Hermione is actually quite good. Snape is good. Other than that, they are mostly crap. The Weaselys are simply all annoying, especially the pretty boy twins. Black is utterly terrible. Dumbledore is barely passable, but does not come across as dangerous in any way. Moody is simply goofy, instead of scary.
Hagrid is quite good, he works well. Lucius Malfoy is quite good, but Draco is a twit.
Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2009, 08:41:36 AM
Black is utterly terrible.
How do you feel he should be played?
I'm not disagreeing, I simply have no feel for the character. He's just there.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 03, 2009, 08:49:29 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2009, 08:41:36 AM
Black is utterly terrible.
How do you feel he should be played?
I'm not disagreeing, I simply have no feel for the character. He's just there.
A little unbalanced, nutty, short tempered, impulsive, even a little cruel at times.
What is with the fascination for men with long, luxurious hair in those movies anyway?
Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2009, 09:03:51 AM
What is with the fascination for men with long, luxurious hair in those movies anyway?
It makes them look more like wizards.
Quote from: Valmy on September 03, 2009, 09:07:03 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2009, 09:03:51 AM
What is with the fascination for men with long, luxurious hair in those movies anyway?
It makes them look more like wizards.
It does?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cinemaeye.com%2Fmoviephotos%2Fharry_potter_4%2Fhp4_posterbook_weasleytwins.jpg&hash=bb03942f33c3c8faba274711bca7677a956c767c)
Quote from: Valmy on September 03, 2009, 09:10:52 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2009, 09:09:55 AM
It does?
Yes
Look at Gandalf and Saruman in LOTR.
Yeah but they're old guys, so look a lot more wizardy just due to their age. :)
Quote from: Valmy on September 03, 2009, 09:10:52 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2009, 09:09:55 AM
It does?
Yes
Look at Gandalf and Saruman in LOTR.
I said "long, luxuriant" hair, not "old, scraggly, long grey hair".
Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2009, 09:16:07 AM
I said "long, luxuriant" hair, not "old, scraggly, long grey hair".
Hey you wanted an explanation and I gave you mine you are free to make up another one. :P
Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2009, 09:03:51 AM
What is with the fascination for men with long, luxurious hair in those movies anyway?
It looks better on the covers of teenage girls' magazines.
Quote from: KRonn on September 03, 2009, 07:59:17 AM
Stunning looking actress playing Cersei. She would seem to look the part, as long as she can act it out as ruthlessly and coolly as Cersei did, or tried to do before things she got caught in her own web. Still waiting for the next book to see what happens to her, one of the most powerful women locked away in a religious order's cells, an order that she helped to become powerful again, so they could unwittingly serve her own ends.
She has a distractingly large jawline. She looks like a nutcracker.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 03, 2009, 11:27:27 AM
Quote from: KRonn on September 03, 2009, 07:59:17 AM
Stunning looking actress playing Cersei. She would seem to look the part, as long as she can act it out as ruthlessly and coolly as Cersei did, or tried to do before things she got caught in her own web. Still waiting for the next book to see what happens to her, one of the most powerful women locked away in a religious order's cells, an order that she helped to become powerful again, so they could unwittingly serve her own ends.
She has a distractingly large jawline. She looks like a nutcracker.
That has to be included to the pointy elbows, sharp knees and thick ankles list. :lol:
I hear her belly-button is an outie. Ugh.
Quote from: The Larch on September 03, 2009, 11:30:42 AM
That has to be included to the pointy elbows, sharp knees and thick ankles list. :lol:
Cankles. :x
From her topless pics on google she's very small breasted. Cersei is supposed to be sexy and voluptuous. This chick is pretty but Cersei should ooze sex. There will be no scenes of Robert Baratheon motorboating Cersei in this series. :(
Yes, truly she is hideous. :huh: But fortunately, none of us likely have to worry about turning down a date with her... so we can rest assured of having avoided such a fate! :D
she's hot. makeup and costumes will make her hotter.
Quote from: The Larch on September 03, 2009, 11:30:42 AM
That has to be included to the pointy elbows, sharp knees and thick ankles list. :lol:
I like delicate features. :blush:
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 03, 2009, 01:16:05 AM
Here's Cersie. Lena Headey from that Terminator tv show, which I've never seen.
Hot, and can act pretty good from what I saw on the Sarah Connor Chronicles.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 03, 2009, 02:36:09 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 03, 2009, 01:16:05 AM
Here's Cersie. Lena Headey from that Terminator tv show, which I've never seen.
Hot, and can act pretty good from what I saw on the Sarah Connor Chronicles.
she was the queen in 300 as well. she's been Languish pre-approved.
First one who I don't like. Too old. Cersei, when the books start, is rather young - late 20s, probably. This woman is pushing 40.
:lol:
Just like all the teenagers on 90210 were teenagers. Oh wait...
:rolleyes:
Yeah, saying it is ok because it worked on your favorite teen-emo show isn't exactly encouraging.
Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2009, 03:34:12 PM
Yeah, saying it is ok because it worked on your favorite teen-emo show isn't exactly encouraging.
What nerve. <_<
The funny thing is, I remember in 300 thinking it was cool that they had a wife for the king who was not some ridiculously young girl, but a middle aged woman, a very attractive one, to be sure, who would presumably be somewhat close to his age.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 03, 2009, 11:41:39 AM
From her topless pics on google she's very small breasted. Cersei is supposed to be sexy and voluptuous. This chick is pretty but Cersei should ooze sex. There will be no scenes of Robert Baratheon motorboating Cersei in this series. :(
What are you talking about? Lena Headey is supersexy.
She is awesome in the Terminator TV show. She also played the spartan queen in 300, but I didn't like that movie, so it was a minus to have her in there.
Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2009, 03:22:06 PM
First one who I don't like. Too old. Cersei, when the books start, is rather young - late 20s, probably. This woman is pushing 40.
Humm. Good point.
Also, isin't she supposed to look like Lancelot? I mean, what his name? The kingslayer, the dude that loses a hand and falls in love with the ugly chick?
Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2009, 03:22:06 PM
First one who I don't like. Too old. Cersei, when the books start, is rather young - late 20s, probably. This woman is pushing 40.
People in the (faux)-medieval ages aged faster than hollywood actresses. She's 35-36 btw.
Quote from: Sahib on September 03, 2009, 04:34:27 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2009, 03:22:06 PM
First one who I don't like. Too old. Cersei, when the books start, is rather young - late 20s, probably. This woman is pushing 40.
People in the (faux)-medieval ages aged faster than hollywood actresses. She's 35-36 btw.
I don't know. The rich and powerful have always been pretty.
Quote from: Siege on September 03, 2009, 04:35:33 PM
Quote from: Sahib on September 03, 2009, 04:34:27 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2009, 03:22:06 PM
First one who I don't like. Too old. Cersei, when the books start, is rather young - late 20s, probably. This woman is pushing 40.
People in the (faux)-medieval ages aged faster than hollywood actresses. She's 35-36 btw.
I don't know. The rich and powerful have always been pretty.
19th century photographs say otherwise.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 03, 2009, 04:36:33 PM
19th century photographs say otherwise.
As do numerous far older portraits and busts.
Carlos II belies Siegey's postulate.
So does CK.
Quote from: Siege on September 03, 2009, 04:34:18 PM
Also, isin't she supposed to look like Lancelot? I mean, what his name? The kingslayer, the dude that loses a hand and falls in love with the ugly chick?
:rolleyes: Jaime is her brother/The Kingslayer. Lancel is the younger (16-17) year-old cousin that she uses as a sex toy when Jaime's out of town.
Quote from: Habbaku on September 03, 2009, 05:52:17 PM
Quote from: Siege on September 03, 2009, 04:34:18 PM
Also, isin't she supposed to look like Lancelot? I mean, what his name? The kingslayer, the dude that loses a hand and falls in love with the ugly chick?
:rolleyes: Jaime is her brother/The Kingslayer. Lancel is the younger (16-17) year-old cousin that she uses as a sex toy when Jaime's out of town.
That isn't exactly
all she uses him for...
Well, it is a comparison exercise.
The rich and powerful of old look pretty next to the poor and powerless of old.
Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2009, 03:22:06 PM
First one who I don't like. Too old. Cersei, when the books start, is rather young - late 20s, probably. This woman is pushing 40.
Cersei is in the mid 30s at the start of the books. One of her concerns in the 4th book is that her age is starting to show.
Quote from: The Larch on September 03, 2009, 06:11:28 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2009, 03:22:06 PM
First one who I don't like. Too old. Cersei, when the books start, is rather young - late 20s, probably. This woman is pushing 40.
Cersei is in the mid 30s at the start of the books. One of her concerns in the 4th book is that her age is starting to show.
Well, actually, I guess you may be right - Joffrey was 15 when his father died, so that would put her into her 30s, at least.
Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2009, 06:32:05 PM
Quote from: The Larch on September 03, 2009, 06:11:28 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2009, 03:22:06 PM
First one who I don't like. Too old. Cersei, when the books start, is rather young - late 20s, probably. This woman is pushing 40.
Cersei is in the mid 30s at the start of the books. One of her concerns in the 4th book is that her age is starting to show.
Well, actually, I guess you may be right - Joffrey was 15 when his father died, so that would put her into her 30s, at least.
You can even do the math. Jaime was 18 or so when the civil war was raging, and Joffrey is 13 or 14 by the beginning of the first book. That puts Cersey at 32 y.o. minimum by the beginning of the series. Ned, Catelyn, Robert, Jaime and Cersei are all around the same age, theoretically.
Jamie doesn't fall in love with the knight chick.. he just comes to respect her and learns from her that his honour matters. He doesn't want to fuck her... he only wants to fuck Cercei.
Quote from: Viking on September 03, 2009, 07:05:50 PM
Jamie doesn't fall in love with the knight chick.. he just comes to respect her and learns from her that his honour matters. He doesn't want to fuck her... he only wants to fuck Cercei.
Bullshit. There can't be friendship between man and woman, or so the http://www.laddertheory.com/ (http://www.laddertheory.com/) says.
Quote from: Siege on September 03, 2009, 04:30:52 PM
What are you talking about? Lena Headey is supersexy.
She's flat. Cersei should have tiggle bitties. She's pretty, but not a sex bomb. She's supposed to be extremely voluptuous and one of the sexiest women in the kingdom.
It really doesn't matter though if she doesn't fit my physical expectations at all as long as she can act like Cersei. That's much more important.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert link=topic=1740.msg101061#msg101061
She's flat. Cersei should have tiggle bitties. She's pretty, but not a sex bomb. She's supposed to be extremely voluptuous and one of the sexiest women in the kingdom.
I never really got that impression of Cersei. Sure, she thought she was, but no one else did, except maybe Jaime.
What's wrong with being flat?
All great woman were flat. Olympia, Cleopatrah, Octavia, Genaria, Berengaria, Isabella I, Anne Boleyn, Elizabeth I, Alexeievna, Glen Gray, Mary Pickford , Greta Garbo, Katharine Hepburn, Gloria Swanson, Sissy Spacek, Julia Roberts, Michelle Pfeiffer, Hilary Swank, Halle Berry, Nicole Kidman, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Evan Rachel Wood, Winona Ryder, Rachel Anne McAdams, Diane Kruger, and Sandra Bullock!
Damn, I can't believe I wasted my time looking for the proper spell for the name of those bitches!
I am reallu drunk!!!$$$!!##44
Quote from: Siege on September 03, 2009, 09:02:57 PM
Quote from: Viking on September 03, 2009, 07:05:50 PM
Jamie doesn't fall in love with the knight chick.. he just comes to respect her and learns from her that his honour matters. He doesn't want to fuck her... he only wants to fuck Cercei.
Bullshit. There can't be friendship between man and woman, or so the http://www.laddertheory.com/ (http://www.laddertheory.com/) says.
She's ugly, so he can be friends with her without sex getting in the way.
Cercei should be HOTT. Like Jaime is HOTT. They are twins. She's a pouty selfish spoiled brat that uses her sex to get what she wants for that incestuous bastard of hers. Not supermodel good looks, but rather faded supermodel after a few kids. Sort of how Sheryl Crow or Alanis Morisette are mature and hott. My problems with Lena Heady for Cercei are as follows.
1) All the parts (I've seen her) play are determined focussed women. Fighting to the death is their sort of thing, not going and complaining to daddy about the midget brother.
2) She isn't blonde and she doesn't have fabulous hair. Hair matters here whether it is Grey (Targaryen), Red (Tulley), Brown, Blonde (Lannister) or Black (Stark). Cercei has hair like this
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dianapagan.com%2Fimages%2Fslideshow%2Fimagegallery%2Fblonde-hair-pic4.jpg&hash=c65419403bcc7d5679c0ddbdf7c114798e699145)
3) She is flat, Cercei is decadently sexy.
Quote from: Viking on September 04, 2009, 04:28:51 AM
Cercei should be HOTT. Like Jaime is HOTT. They are twins. She's a pouty selfish spoiled brat that uses her sex to get what she wants for that incestuous bastard of hers. Not supermodel good looks, but rather faded supermodel after a few kids. Sort of how Sheryl Crow or Alanis Morisette are mature and hott. My problems with Lena Heady for Cercei are as follows.
Lena Heady is hotter than either of those two.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 04, 2009, 04:45:49 AM
Quote from: Viking on September 04, 2009, 04:28:51 AM
Cercei should be HOTT. Like Jaime is HOTT. They are twins. She's a pouty selfish spoiled brat that uses her sex to get what she wants for that incestuous bastard of hers. Not supermodel good looks, but rather faded supermodel after a few kids. Sort of how Sheryl Crow or Alanis Morisette are mature and hott. My problems with Lena Heady for Cercei are as follows.
Lena Heady is hotter than either of those two.
Yeah, I was right there with him until he picked two rather homely women as his examples.
I picture Cersei something like an older Scarlett Johansson
Quote from: Berkut on September 04, 2009, 07:29:06 AM
Yeah, I was right there with him until he picked two rather homely women as his examples.
Oh, they're hott too, just not quite up to internet standards.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 04, 2009, 07:36:11 AM
I picture Cersei something like an older Scarlett Johansson
Not at all. Scarlet Johanson is way too ugly for that. She could play (if she was younger) Arya or something.
Quote from: Viking on September 04, 2009, 04:28:51 AM
2) She isn't blonde and she doesn't have fabulous hair. Hair matters here whether it is Grey (Targaryen), Red (Tulley), Brown, Blonde (Lannister) or Black (Stark). Cercei has hair like this
Things like hair color and hair length are not big problems to take care of in the movie biz.
Quote from: Valmy on September 04, 2009, 07:40:48 AM
Quote from: Viking on September 04, 2009, 04:28:51 AM
2) She isn't blonde and she doesn't have fabulous hair. Hair matters here whether it is Grey (Targaryen), Red (Tulley), Brown, Blonde (Lannister) or Black (Stark). Cercei has hair like this
Things like hair color and hair length are not big problems to take care of in the movie biz.
And they can use body doubles for the sex scenes.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 04, 2009, 07:53:55 AM
And they can use body doubles for the sex scenes.
Man I am not looking forward to all the Tyrion sex.
At least with the actress they got to play Dany her scenes shouldn't be as disturbing as I pictured them when I read the book.
There's still lots of violent rape they have to deal with.
Quote from: Martinus on September 04, 2009, 07:40:16 AM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 04, 2009, 07:36:11 AM
I picture Cersei something like an older Scarlett Johansson
Not at all. Scarlet Johanson is way too ugly for that. She could play (if she was younger) Arya or something.
You're so, so, so very wrong.
Well, maybe at least the series will be written and take the place of finishing the book series, since JRR Martin seems to be reluctant to get a next book out. ;)
Quote from: Martinus on September 04, 2009, 07:40:16 AM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 04, 2009, 07:36:11 AM
I picture Cersei something like an older Scarlett Johansson
Not at all. Scarlet Johanson is way too ugly for that.
Are you on drugs?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.babble.com%2FCS%2Fblogs%2Ffamecrawler%2F2008%2F11%2F23-End%2520of%2520Month%2Fscarlett_johansson.jpg&hash=b988628471d84201cfa3722e083fb61a68f17f4f)
I guess this much be why you are gay.
I think he'd prefer a Cersei more like this
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnetanya.files.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F04%2Flegolas_golden_light.jpg&hash=f667024dd9f90c656e788c336da7cab9ddff3d24)
I pictured Cersei a bit like Nicole Kidman. Looking good, but somehow vain and fake.
I never realized before how much Legolas resembles Greta van Susteren.
Quote from: Zanza on September 04, 2009, 09:39:22 AM
I pictured Cersei a bit like Nicole Kidman. Looking good, but somehow vain and fake.
Yup, a more voluptuous Nicole Kidman would be spot on as Cersei. She has the statuesque part already.
Hair colour is not an issue at all. They can dye their hair to whatever colour is needed, I'm sure.
Quote from: Monoriu on September 04, 2009, 11:30:05 AM
Hair colour is not an issue at all. They can dye their hair to whatever colour is needed, I'm sure.
Or use a wig or whatever.
Quote from: Berkut on September 04, 2009, 09:00:22 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 04, 2009, 07:40:16 AM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 04, 2009, 07:36:11 AM
I picture Cersei something like an older Scarlett Johansson
Not at all. Scarlet Johanson is way too ugly for that.
Are you on drugs?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.babble.com%2FCS%2Fblogs%2Ffamecrawler%2F2008%2F11%2F23-End%2520of%2520Month%2Fscarlett_johansson.jpg&hash=b988628471d84201cfa3722e083fb61a68f17f4f)
I guess this much be why you are gay.
I was just having breakfast & I opened this thread to this picture.
Thank you Berkut. It's a wonderfull thing to have breakfast to Scarlett's.
Grey Fox: her elbows are all wrong!!! :P
Quote from: saskganesh on September 04, 2009, 12:17:52 PM
Grey Fox: her elbows are all wrong!!! :P
Shiny lipstick! :(
Quote from: Viking on September 04, 2009, 04:28:51 AM
Cercei should be HOTT. Like Jaime is HOTT. They are twins. She's a pouty selfish spoiled brat that uses her sex to get what she wants for that incestuous bastard of hers. Not supermodel good looks, but rather faded supermodel after a few kids. Sort of how Sheryl Crow or Alanis Morisette are mature and hott. My problems with Lena Heady for Cercei are as follows.
1) All the parts (I've seen her) play are determined focussed women. Fighting to the death is their sort of thing, not going and complaining to daddy about the midget brother.
2) She isn't blonde and she doesn't have fabulous hair. Hair matters here whether it is Grey (Targaryen), Red (Tulley), Brown, Blonde (Lannister) or Black (Stark). Cercei has hair like this
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dianapagan.com%2Fimages%2Fslideshow%2Fimagegallery%2Fblonde-hair-pic4.jpg&hash=c65419403bcc7d5679c0ddbdf7c114798e699145)
3) She is flat, Cercei is decadently sexy.
This is pretty close to how I see Cersei:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F1%2F11%2FTricia_Helfer.jpg&hash=638b92d25b66c2154e78df657b93994c5c761128)
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 04, 2009, 09:09:57 AM
I think he'd prefer a Cersei more like this
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnetanya.files.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F04%2Flegolas_golden_light.jpg&hash=f667024dd9f90c656e788c336da7cab9ddff3d24)
:lol:
Quote from: Zanza on September 04, 2009, 09:39:22 AM
I pictured Cersei a bit like Nicole Kidman. Looking good, but somehow vain and fake.
Yep, that's a pretty good choice.
Or an older elisha cuthbert
Nerds.
Quote from: Viking on September 04, 2009, 04:28:51 AM
3) She is flat, Cercei is decadently sexy.
1) Flat can be decadently sexy
2) Like I said, I don't get that impression of Cersei at all.
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 04, 2009, 02:47:33 PM
I'm about to call you all losers, and yank your underwear into a painful wedgie.
:cry:
Quote from: Valmy on September 04, 2009, 02:54:24 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 04, 2009, 02:47:33 PM
I'm about to call you all losers, and yank your underwear into a painful wedgie.
:cry:
My tolerance for geeks, nerds and dweebs is low right now. :P
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 04, 2009, 02:55:15 PM
My tolerance for geeks, nerds and dweebs is low right now. :P
What about dorks?
Quote
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpics.livejournal.com%2Fgrrm%2Fpic%2F0006aw6c&hash=551aeb9a25b85538e40c92a111e3188af1e1e531)
She's not big, but she's not flat.
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 04, 2009, 02:47:33 PM
I'm about to call you all losers, and yank your underwear into a painful wedgie.
Except you're like Sam Jackson's character in Unbreakable.
Monoriu could probably light you up pretty bad.
Pussy.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 04, 2009, 03:04:22 PM
Quote
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpics.livejournal.com%2Fgrrm%2Fpic%2F0006aw6c&hash=551aeb9a25b85538e40c92a111e3188af1e1e531)
She's not big, but she's not flat.
Maybe this is just a bad shot of her cleavage. She definitely looks like she's working with something there.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 04, 2009, 01:26:15 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 04, 2009, 01:25:12 PM
Quote from: Korea on September 04, 2009, 01:12:13 PM
This is pretty close to how I see Cersei:
Yes. :)
She would have been great
I think she has the aged beauty thing pretty dead on. If her hair were lighter I bet she would be great. Also good actress. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Korea on September 04, 2009, 08:02:10 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 04, 2009, 03:04:22 PM
Quote
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpics.livejournal.com%2Fgrrm%2Fpic%2F0006aw6c&hash=551aeb9a25b85538e40c92a111e3188af1e1e531)
She's not big, but she's not flat.
Maybe this is just a bad shot of her cleavage. She definitely looks like she's working with something there.
Wouldn't that be a good shot then?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 04, 2009, 08:09:09 PM
Quote from: Korea on September 04, 2009, 08:02:10 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 04, 2009, 03:04:22 PM
She's not big, but she's not flat.
Maybe this is just a bad shot of her cleavage. She definitely looks like she's working with something there.
Wouldn't that be a good shot then?
Search for her topless on google image search with safe search turned off. She's been nude in films before. She's flat. This is a good shot of her.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 04, 2009, 08:09:09 PM
Quote from: Korea on September 04, 2009, 08:02:10 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 04, 2009, 03:04:22 PM
Quote
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpics.livejournal.com%2Fgrrm%2Fpic%2F0006aw6c&hash=551aeb9a25b85538e40c92a111e3188af1e1e531)
She's not big, but she's not flat.
Maybe this is just a bad shot of her cleavage. She definitely looks like she's working with something there.
Wouldn't that be a good shot then?
Hrm. What I mean is her boobs look small in this picture but it could just be the angle because they look like they could be big.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 05, 2009, 12:25:55 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 04, 2009, 08:09:09 PM
Quote from: Korea on September 04, 2009, 08:02:10 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 04, 2009, 03:04:22 PM
She's not big, but she's not flat.
Maybe this is just a bad shot of her cleavage. She definitely looks like she's working with something there.
Wouldn't that be a good shot then?
Search for her topless on google image search with safe search turned off. She's been nude in films before. She's flat. This is a good shot of her.
Oh. :(
Quote from: Korea on September 04, 2009, 08:04:01 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 04, 2009, 01:26:15 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 04, 2009, 01:25:12 PM
Quote from: Korea on September 04, 2009, 01:12:13 PM
This is pretty close to how I see Cersei:
Yes. :)
She would have been great
I think she has the aged beauty thing pretty dead on. If her hair were lighter I bet she would be great. Also good actress. :thumbsup:
Would you use your purple dildo on her? Fuck her with a strap-on?
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 05, 2009, 02:47:30 PM
Quote from: Korea on September 04, 2009, 08:04:01 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on September 04, 2009, 01:26:15 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 04, 2009, 01:25:12 PM
Quote from: Korea on September 04, 2009, 01:12:13 PM
This is pretty close to how I see Cersei:
Yes. :)
She would have been great
I think she has the aged beauty thing pretty dead on. If her hair were lighter I bet she would be great. Also good actress. :thumbsup:
Would you use your purple dildo on her? Fuck her with a strap-on?
No, but I'd let her have her way with me and then get rejected when I try to reciprocate. :(
Quote from: Korea on September 06, 2009, 12:29:17 PM
No, but I'd let her have her way with me and then get rejected when I try to reciprocate. :(
Somebody needs a hug.
:hug: ^_^
Martin posted some covers from a French release of his series.
Much, much, MUCH better than any of the covers I have seen in the States.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpics.livejournal.com%2Fgrrm%2Fpic%2F0008krzd%2Fs640x480&hash=79c9564abed25e3fb67b3216adcd3d26472124e1)
Castle Black? and the Wall.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpics.livejournal.com%2Fgrrm%2Fpic%2F0008pb8p%2Fs640x480&hash=20825a4847a1c6775337f66cc53d2b946429654a)
Tyrion in Kings Landing.
I just finished the books. I love them.
Quote from: The Brain on February 23, 2010, 10:37:46 AM
I just finished the books. I love them.
Hope you love decade long cliffhangers too
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on February 23, 2010, 10:47:54 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 23, 2010, 10:37:46 AM
I just finished the books. I love them.
Hope you love decade long cliffhangers too
I don't have a problem with the next book missing. There's so many ends to tie up anyway I doubt he'll manage.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on February 23, 2010, 10:47:54 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 23, 2010, 10:37:46 AM
I just finished the books. I love them.
Hope you love decade long cliffhangers too
I was chatting with someone about this the other day, and I realized something.
I don't really care about the long waits.
Or rather, I do care, but the books are so fucking good, I don't in any way regret having read them. In fact, the long waits, while annoying, have allowed me to digest the story in a way that I have probably never done for any books before. I recognize that this is apologism to some extent - I love the books enough that I am willing to find excuses for their author, but at the same time...it's not like I would be better off for them not having been written, and me for not having read them several times now.
I am halfway through book four for the third time, and I do not regret a moment I have spent reading them, talking about them, reading about them, or bullshitting on Languish about them. So hey - from that perspective, I have probably gotten more enjoyment out of this series than anything I have ever read, by a long shot.
Quote from: Berkut on February 23, 2010, 11:03:57 AM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on February 23, 2010, 10:47:54 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 23, 2010, 10:37:46 AM
I just finished the books. I love them.
Hope you love decade long cliffhangers too
I was chatting with someone about this the other day, and I realized something.
I don't really care about the long waits.
Or rather, I do care, but the books are so fucking good, I don't in any way regret having read them. In fact, the long waits, while annoying, have allowed me to digest the story in a way that I have probably never done for any books before. I recognize that this is apologism to some extent - I love the books enough that I am willing to find excuses for their author, but at the same time...it's not like I would be better off for them not having been written, and me for not having read them several times now.
I am halfway through book four for the third time, and I do not regret a moment I have spent reading them, talking about them, reading about them, or bullshitting on Languish about them. So hey - from that perspective, I have probably gotten more enjoyment out of this series than anything I have ever read, by a long shot.
good point
Martin can take as long as he wants - as long as he manages to finish the series before he dies.
Unfortunately I don't think he will.
There's one thing about the books I don't get though. Why did he make it a LOTR cross-over? And FWIW I pictured Frodo's father a LOT different from this.
Quote from: Barrister on February 23, 2010, 12:11:05 PM
Martin can take as long as he wants - as long as he manages to finish the series before he dies.
Unfortunately I don't think he will.
My theory is that he really doesn't care anymore.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on February 23, 2010, 02:57:36 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 23, 2010, 12:11:05 PM
Martin can take as long as he wants - as long as he manages to finish the series before he dies.
Unfortunately I don't think he will.
My theory is that he really doesn't care anymore.
I sure don't. If he finishes the series, i will start over and read the thing. If he doesn't, I won't. I think he is a better writer than Jordan was, but I think Jordan honestly knew where he was going, and I am pretty sure Martin has never had a clue.
I don't think the books are worth spending more time on absent an actual story. I have plenty of books in the queue that look just as well-written and a lot more compelling plot-wise.
Quote from: grumbler on February 23, 2010, 03:15:38 PM
I think Jordan honestly knew where he was going,
I've never gotten that impression.
Quote from: grumbler on February 23, 2010, 03:15:38 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on February 23, 2010, 02:57:36 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 23, 2010, 12:11:05 PM
Martin can take as long as he wants - as long as he manages to finish the series before he dies.
Unfortunately I don't think he will.
My theory is that he really doesn't care anymore.
I sure don't. If he finishes the series, i will start over and read the thing. If he doesn't, I won't. I think he is a better writer than Jordan was, but I think Jordan honestly knew where he was going, and I am pretty sure Martin has never had a clue.
I don't think the books are worth spending more time on absent an actual story. I have plenty of books in the queue that look just as well-written and a lot more compelling plot-wise.
IT'S ABOUT THE CHARACTERS!
And Jordan claimed from the start to know how he wanted to end the series. His problem was getting there.
Quote from: Maximus on February 23, 2010, 03:44:38 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 23, 2010, 03:15:38 PM
I think Jordan honestly knew where he was going,
I've never gotten that impression.
The problem is that about halfway through book 2, Jordan figured out that his series could very well have ended with book 3, and he needed to pad. So he did.
Quote from: Maximus on February 23, 2010, 03:44:38 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 23, 2010, 03:15:38 PM
I think Jordan honestly knew where he was going,
I've never gotten that impression.
I just kept getting the impression that he got lost on segue after segue along with him suddenly finding new characters interesting and inserting them into the story. So he kept getting lost from the red thread of the story along with starting to tell new stories again and again.
I think he was afraid of finishing the series.
Quote from: Scipio on February 23, 2010, 11:14:57 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 23, 2010, 03:44:38 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 23, 2010, 03:15:38 PM
I think Jordan honestly knew where he was going,
I've never gotten that impression.
The problem is that about halfway through book 2, Jordan figured out that his series could very well have ended with book 3, and he needed to pad. So he did.
There's no fucking way it could have ended in 3 books.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 23, 2010, 11:26:07 PM
Quote from: Scipio on February 23, 2010, 11:14:57 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 23, 2010, 03:44:38 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 23, 2010, 03:15:38 PM
I think Jordan honestly knew where he was going,
I've never gotten that impression.
The problem is that about halfway through book 2, Jordan figured out that his series could very well have ended with book 3, and he needed to pad. So he did.
There's no fucking way it could have ended in 3 books.
Tolkien did, but then again, he stayed on track.
Quote from: Viking on February 23, 2010, 11:26:52 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 23, 2010, 11:26:07 PM
Quote from: Scipio on February 23, 2010, 11:14:57 PM
Quote from: Maximus on February 23, 2010, 03:44:38 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 23, 2010, 03:15:38 PM
I think Jordan honestly knew where he was going,
I've never gotten that impression.
The problem is that about halfway through book 2, Jordan figured out that his series could very well have ended with book 3, and he needed to pad. So he did.
There's no fucking way it could have ended in 3 books.
Tolkien did, but then again, he stayed on track.
Way more stuff happens and needed to happen to get to the point where the books are at now then what happened in LotR.
That argument is simply absurd.
The series has been taken over by a completely different author, one who has shown himself capable of writing compelling and concise trilogies and stand alone novels and even he thinks the story outline Jordan left couldn't be finished in less than 800,000 words.
All fantasy writers are merely paler shades of Tolkien. :)
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 23, 2010, 11:40:43 PM
Way more stuff happens and needed to happen to get to the point where the books are at now then what happened in LotR.
That argument is simply absurd.
The series has been taken over by a completely different author, one who has shown himself capable of writing compelling and concise trilogies and stand alone novels and even he thinks the story outline Jordan left couldn't be finished in less than 800,000 words.
Way more stuff happens, yes, but it didn't need to. He could have kept the story on track and then once he was finished write all the threads describing the universe that most of the books ultimately boil down to.
Quote from: Viking on February 23, 2010, 11:19:49 PM
I just kept getting the impression that he got lost on segue after segue along with him suddenly finding new characters interesting and inserting them into the story. So he kept getting lost from the red thread of the story along with starting to tell new stories again and again.
I think he was afraid of finishing the series.
I am not sure that he was afraid of ending the series, but agree that he got drawn off track by the ideas he kept having about incidental characters, so he left the bits that he "knew how to do" to pursue his muse while she was talking to him. There were entire spinoff books folded into the main story.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 23, 2010, 11:40:43 PM
Way more stuff happens and needed to happen to get to the point where the books are at now then what happened in LotR.
That argument is simply absurd.
There was not a lot of stuff that "needed" to happen by the middle of the second book. That argument is absurd.
QuoteThe series has been taken over by a completely different author, one who has shown himself capable of writing compelling and concise trilogies and stand alone novels and even he thinks the story outline Jordan left couldn't be finished in less than 800,000 words.
That is because Jordan was so self-indulgent (and had such a poor editor). The stories are replete with side plots, characters, and places that simply distract and detract from the story.
My point is that Jordan knew how he was going to end the series from the start (and so did we, for that matter). He just lacked the self-discipline to get there.
OTOH, I think Martin lacks the self-discipline to commit himself to an ending, so his books in this series tend to be well-written potboilers. Plenty of people like them well enough to keep Martin fed and happy, though, so I don't see it as a problem from his point of view. I'll admit a vague desire to see the series finished myself, so that I can get back to it (though, since I stopped halfway through book 3, I would have to start again).
Quote from: Berkut on February 23, 2010, 10:31:09 AM
Martin posted some covers from a French release of his series.
Much, much, MUCH better than any of the covers I have seen in the States.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpics.livejournal.com%2Fgrrm%2Fpic%2F0008krzd%2Fs640x480&hash=79c9564abed25e3fb67b3216adcd3d26472124e1)
Castle Black? and the Wall.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpics.livejournal.com%2Fgrrm%2Fpic%2F0008pb8p%2Fs640x480&hash=20825a4847a1c6775337f66cc53d2b946429654a)
Tyrion in Kings Landing.
I couldn't find that precise edition yesterday. Maybe it's still too new.
:(
Quote from: grumbler on February 24, 2010, 07:36:31 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 23, 2010, 11:40:43 PM
Way more stuff happens and needed to happen to get to the point where the books are at now then what happened in LotR.
That argument is simply absurd.
There was not a lot of stuff that "needed" to happen by the middle of the second book. That argument is absurd.
Book 2? :huh:
Where the books are at now is book 12. I meant that far more stuff as transpired in the WoT then could possibly be fit into 3 books.
Quote from: grumbler on February 24, 2010, 07:36:31 AM
OTOH, I think Martin lacks the self-discipline to commit himself to an ending, so his books in this series tend to be well-written potboilers. Plenty of people like them well enough to keep Martin fed and happy, though, so I don't see it as a problem from his point of view. I'll admit a vague desire to see the series finished myself, so that I can get back to it (though, since I stopped halfway through book 3, I would have to start again).
On the contrary, I think that Martin knows how he wants to end the series, but doesn't know how to get there exactly. He started drifting in book 4, apparently because he had to scrap a flash-forward he intended to do at first, and had to redesign the plot for that period.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 24, 2010, 07:48:40 AM
Where the books are at now is book 12. I meant that far more stuff as transpired in the WoT then could possibly be fit into 3 books.
Yeah, but 90% of that consists of braid-pulling and the sort of gender politics that make you wonder that if this is what he thought of women, how did he avoid climbing a bell-tower with a rifle. Really, there isn't a single female character in the whole series that is in any way admirable.
Also, you can see the series slow to a crawl before your eyes. Look how much happens in the first four books. After that, events slow to a crawl.
The female characters are mostly useless or just obnoxious. That is interesting because his wife was heavily involved in reading as he wrote and contributing input on this stuff.
He claimed more than once that they are all based on aspects of his wife.
Quote from: Neil on February 24, 2010, 08:12:35 AM
Also, you can see the series slow to a crawl before your eyes. Look how much happens in the first four books. After that, events slow to a crawl.
Indeed - I remember the specific point where I quit in frustration - they spent half a book on a story about going to get some fucking bowl or something.
IIRC (and I probably don't) they eventually got the bowl, of course, and I realized the entire episode could have been skipped without it effecting the primary plot in any way at all. Rand probably used it to eat his Wheeties before practicing fighting 64 sowrdsman at once or something.
And it wasn't an interesting segue either.
Quote from: Neil on February 24, 2010, 08:12:35 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 24, 2010, 07:48:40 AM
Where the books are at now is book 12. I meant that far more stuff as transpired in the WoT then could possibly be fit into 3 books.
Yeah, but 90% of that consists of braid-pulling and the sort of gender politics that make you wonder that if this is what he thought of women, how did he avoid climbing a bell-tower with a rifle. Really, there isn't a single female character in the whole series that is in any way admirable.
Also, you can see the series slow to a crawl before your eyes. Look how much happens in the first four books. After that, events slow to a crawl.
Not true, the women, like the men grow over the series. Nynaeve, Elayane and Egwene develop into well rounded characters who's actions are integral to the success of the light. Not that they're perfect people, their flaws are what make them interesting.
That's total bullshit, just as much stuff happens in books 5-7 as in books 1-4 put together.
Major events
1-4 The Eye of the World is saved, Aginor & Balthamel killed, The Horn of Valere rescued and the Seanchan thrown back, The Fall of Tear, Ishamael and Bel'al killed, Rand becomes the Car'a'carn of the Aeil, Mat and the Eelfinn, Black Ajah in Tanchico, Perrin saves the Two Rivers, White Tower Coup, Asmodean captured.
5-7
The Shaido war, Cairhein conquered, Lanfear killed, Moraine trapped in the land of the Eelfinn, the Salidar rebellion, Moghedien captured, the Band of the Red Hand, Rahvin killed, the Seanchan return, Mazrim Taim and the founding of the Black Tower, Rand is kidnapped & tortured, Aginor, Balthamel and Ishamael ressurected, Egwene raised to the Amyrlin seat, Samael killed and Illian conquered.
Quote from: Berkut on February 24, 2010, 08:49:19 AM
Quote from: Neil on February 24, 2010, 08:12:35 AM
Also, you can see the series slow to a crawl before your eyes. Look how much happens in the first four books. After that, events slow to a crawl.
Indeed - I remember the specific point where I quit in frustration - they spent half a book on a story about going to get some fucking bowl or something.
IIRC (and I probably don't) they eventually got the bowl, of course, and I realized the entire episode could have been skipped without it effecting the primary plot in any way at all.
It fixed the weather. The Dark One had caused an unnatural heat wave/drought. If they hadn't found it everyone in the world would have died. How is that not integral to the plot?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 24, 2010, 08:54:03 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 24, 2010, 08:49:19 AM
Quote from: Neil on February 24, 2010, 08:12:35 AM
Also, you can see the series slow to a crawl before your eyes. Look how much happens in the first four books. After that, events slow to a crawl.
Indeed - I remember the specific point where I quit in frustration - they spent half a book on a story about going to get some fucking bowl or something.
IIRC (and I probably don't) they eventually got the bowl, of course, and I realized the entire episode could have been skipped without it effecting the primary plot in any way at all.
It fixed the weather. The Dark One had caused an unnatural heat wave/drought. If they hadn't found it everyone in the world would have died. How is that not integral to the plot?
Because the Dark One breaking the weather isn't integral either.
Maybe later they could go rescue a spoon that fixed the tides that the Dark One broke. Then they could rescue a flower pot that fixed zippers that didn't zip that the Dark One broke. Then they could rescue a pencil that fixed....
See, it is bullshit - problems created so you can spend a book fixing them, which has NOTHING to do with the actual story, and not at all convincing that it is anything more.
Plus, the story was fucking boring as hell - you knew they would find the stupid bowl, you knew they would "fix the weather", and nothing substantial would actually change, nothing interesting would happen in the process, and you knew it would take 850 pages to do it all, with plenty of hair pulling and Mat brooding and whatshisface being stubborn.
Timmay is so defensive over his childlike fantasy stories. :homestar:
Never read any Jordan. I've thought about doing so in the past but having learnt that he calls a character "The Dark One" is enough to put me off.
Re Martin, the books are great (except the last one which was mediocre) but I really don't want to have to reread them every few years so I can enjoy the latest.
Quote from: Berkut on February 24, 2010, 09:02:19 AM
See, it is bullshit - problems created so you can spend a book fixing them,
How does that not describe every fantasy book ever?
Quotewhich has NOTHING to do with the actual story, and not at all convincing that it is anything more.
And what exactly is the story about? It's about the never ending war with the Dark One. The drought was referenced in the opening prophecy in book 5, it's not like it came out of nowhere.
Quote
Plus, the story was fucking boring as hell - you knew they would find the stupid bowl, you knew they would "fix the weather", and nothing substantial would actually change, nothing interesting would happen in the process, and you knew it would take 850 pages to do it all, with plenty of hair pulling and Mat brooding and whatshisface being stubborn.
I disagree, but that's just a matter of taste. I especially found Mat's situation hilarious. But I have no problem with that Ed, people like what they like or don't like what they don't. It's when they make a specific complaint that just doesn't make sense in the context of the books that I get pissed.
If someone shit all over The Black Company or whatever you're favorite book or series is I'm sure you'd be annoyed.
Quote from: Gups on February 24, 2010, 09:22:47 AM
Never read any Jordan. I've thought about doing so in the past but having learnt that he calls a character "The Dark One" is enough to put me off.
Re Martin, the books are great (except the last one which was mediocre) but I really don't want to have to reread them every few years so I can enjoy the latest.
The "character" is Dark Eldricht God whom no one dares say the real name of.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 24, 2010, 09:25:13 AM
I disagree, but that's just a matter of taste. I especially found Mat's situation hilarious. But I have no problem with that Ed, people like what they like or don't like what they don't. It's when they make a specific complaint that just doesn't make sense in the context of the books that I get pissed.
If someone shit all over The Black Company or whatever you're favorite book or series is I'm sure you'd be annoyed.
No, I wouldn't. :lol:
But, I got the reaction I wanted. I am: satisfied. :licklips:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 24, 2010, 09:25:13 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 24, 2010, 09:02:19 AM
See, it is bullshit - problems created so you can spend a book fixing them,
How does that not describe every fantasy book ever?
Quotewhich has NOTHING to do with the actual story, and not at all convincing that it is anything more.
And what exactly is the story about? It's about the never ending war with the Dark One. The drought was referenced in the opening prophecy in book 5, it's not like it came out of nowhere.
Yes, but since we already knew there was a never ending war with the Dark One, and a lot of other stuff going on, the bowl subplot looks like total filler.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 24, 2010, 09:25:13 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 24, 2010, 09:02:19 AM
See, it is bullshit - problems created so you can spend a book fixing them,
How does that not describe every fantasy book ever?
A novel creates a situation, then leads the reader through the resolution.
The Jordan series creates a situation, then leads the reader through a dozen barely related amnufactured ancilary "problems" that have nothing to do with the actual story, except that they are a good way to write yet another 1100 page book about them.
It isn't a long story told well - it is a long story with several additional long stories tacked on, and the base story would be MUCH more compelling if the tacked on stories were just left off completely.
Lets comapre this to some acknowledged classic, say Twains Huckleberry Finn - which also has an overarching story and lots of "side" stories.
But those side stories contribute to the point of the main story, and the point of the novel as well. They are well integrated, interesting, and follow a theme. They are not just spooge thrown out so the author can pad his page count, and sell yet another book that doesn't actually go anywhere.
Quote
Quotewhich has NOTHING to do with the actual story, and not at all convincing that it is anything more.
And what exactly is the story about? It's about the never ending war with the Dark One.
So the author is boring us to tears because he wants us to feel as desperate for it all to end as the characters? A clever mechanic!
Quote
The drought was referenced in the opening prophecy in book 5, it's not like it came out of nowhere.
Doens't matter whether or not it came out of nowhere - you could remove the entire plotline and it would not materially effect the story in any way at all.
Quote
Quote
Plus, the story was fucking boring as hell - you knew they would find the stupid bowl, you knew they would "fix the weather", and nothing substantial would actually change, nothing interesting would happen in the process, and you knew it would take 850 pages to do it all, with plenty of hair pulling and Mat brooding and whatshisface being stubborn.
I disagree, but that's just a matter of taste. I especially found Mat's situation hilarious.
Nothing is lilarious the 400th time it is painstakingly explained and the reader is led by the jnose through it again and again and again and again.
But perhaps that is just a matter of taste.
Quote
But I have no problem with that Ed, people like what they like or don't like what they don't. It's when they make a specific complaint that just doesn't make sense in the context of the books that I get pissed.
My specific example makes perfect sense in the context of complaining about the books being overlong, rambling, incredibly reptetitive, and largely undirected.
Quote
If someone shit all over The Black Company or whatever you're favorite book or series is I'm sure you'd be annoyed.
Not really. People shit all over my favorite books all the time. This thread, in fact, is full of it.
I might respond if I think the shitting is unfair, or to explain why it doesn't bother me. But plenty of people make perfectly valid critiques of Martins work, and I mostly just think "Yeah, he does do that..." and let it go. I try not to defend something just because I like it. It can be the case that you like AWOT even while the criticism of it by others is perfectly valid.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 24, 2010, 08:52:56 AM
Not true, the women, like the men grow over the series. Nynaeve, Elayane and Egwene develop into well rounded characters who's actions are integral to the success of the light. Not that they're perfect people, their flaws are what make them interesting.
When every character has the same flaws (bitchiness, pettiness, inability to deal well with others), it's not quite as interesting.
QuoteThat's total bullshit, just as much stuff happens in books 5-7 as in books 1-4 put together.
Major events
1-4 The Eye of the World is saved, Aginor & Balthamel killed, The Horn of Valere rescued and the Seanchan thrown back, The Fall of Tear, Ishamael and Bel'al killed, Rand becomes the Car'a'carn of the Aeil, Mat and the Eelfinn, Black Ajah in Tanchico, Perrin saves the Two Rivers, White Tower Coup, Asmodean captured.
5-7
The Shaido war, Cairhein conquered, Lanfear killed, Moraine trapped in the land of the Eelfinn, the Salidar rebellion, Moghedien captured, the Band of the Red Hand, Rahvin killed, the Seanchan return, Mazrim Taim and the founding of the Black Tower, Rand is kidnapped & tortured, Aginor, Balthamel and Ishamael ressurected, Egwene raised to the Amyrlin seat, Samael killed and Illian conquered.
See, the difference is that the first four books are all advancing the plotline. Rand is going places, doing things, and generally moving towards his confrontation with destiny. The irrelevant asides, like the girls hunting the Black Ajah or anything involving the Seanchan after Falma, are relatively short and don't get bogged down. After that, it turns into them going from country to country, knocking them over and beating the Forsaken of the Week. The asides get longer and more pointless, and Rand, the main character who drives the action, whose adventures took us all over the world, fades into the background and freezes into immobility. It's like Jordan forgot who the main character was, and so relied more heavily upon his two sub-mains and the vast assortment of secondary characters to fill space.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 24, 2010, 08:54:03 AM
It fixed the weather. The Dark One had caused an unnatural heat wave/drought. If they hadn't found it everyone in the world would have died. How is that not integral to the plot?
You know what else would fix the weather? Rand beating the Dark One. Instead of using circumstances to advance the plot, the author chose to use them to tell a dull sidestory about unlikeable characters.
Quote from: Neil on February 24, 2010, 09:40:40 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 24, 2010, 08:54:03 AM
It fixed the weather. The Dark One had caused an unnatural heat wave/drought. If they hadn't found it everyone in the world would have died. How is that not integral to the plot?
You know what else would fix the weather? Rand beating the Dark One. Instead of using circumstances to advance the plot, the author chose to use them to tell a dull sidestory about unlikeable characters.
Holy.
Fuck.
Now even Neil manages to say what I mean in 1/10th the space, and with much greater clarity.
I am the fucking Robert Jordan of internet posting! :bleeding:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 24, 2010, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: Gups on February 24, 2010, 09:22:47 AM
Never read any Jordan. I've thought about doing so in the past but having learnt that he calls a character "The Dark One" is enough to put me off.
Re Martin, the books are great (except the last one which was mediocre) but I really don't want to have to reread them every few years so I can enjoy the latest.
The "character" is Dark Eldricht God whom no one dares say the real name of.
That makes a difference.
Quote from: Gups on February 24, 2010, 10:04:52 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 24, 2010, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: Gups on February 24, 2010, 09:22:47 AM
Never read any Jordan. I've thought about doing so in the past but having learnt that he calls a character "The Dark One" is enough to put me off.
Re Martin, the books are great (except the last one which was mediocre) but I really don't want to have to reread them every few years so I can enjoy the latest.
The "character" is Dark Eldricht God whom no one dares say the real name of.
That makes a difference.
I've always loved this silly little idea that saying somethings name is oh so scary.
I actually liked how Harry Potter would get annoyed and say Voldemort just to fuck with people.
Quote from: Berkut on February 24, 2010, 09:49:53 AM
I am the fucking Robert Jordan of internet posting! :bleeding:
:yes:
At least you know what you are trying to say, though. Better to be vaguely precise than precisely vague.
Quote from: Berkut on February 24, 2010, 10:09:19 AM
Quote from: Gups on February 24, 2010, 10:04:52 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 24, 2010, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: Gups on February 24, 2010, 09:22:47 AM
Never read any Jordan. I've thought about doing so in the past but having learnt that he calls a character "The Dark One" is enough to put me off.
Re Martin, the books are great (except the last one which was mediocre) but I really don't want to have to reread them every few years so I can enjoy the latest.
The "character" is Dark Eldricht God whom no one dares say the real name of.
That makes a difference.
I've always loved this silly little idea that saying somethings name is oh so scary.
I actually liked how Harry Potter would get annoyed and say Voldemort just to fuck with people.
If you actually say the Dark One's name though horrible thing really happen to you like everyone in your family falling sick from a fever, or your entire crop being eaten by locusts.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 24, 2010, 10:26:08 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 24, 2010, 10:09:19 AM
Quote from: Gups on February 24, 2010, 10:04:52 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 24, 2010, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: Gups on February 24, 2010, 09:22:47 AM
Never read any Jordan. I've thought about doing so in the past but having learnt that he calls a character "The Dark One" is enough to put me off.
Re Martin, the books are great (except the last one which was mediocre) but I really don't want to have to reread them every few years so I can enjoy the latest.
The "character" is Dark Eldricht God whom no one dares say the real name of.
That makes a difference.
I've always loved this silly little idea that saying somethings name is oh so scary.
I actually liked how Harry Potter would get annoyed and say Voldemort just to fuck with people.
If you actually say the Dark One's name though horrible thing really happen to you like everyone in your family falling sick from a fever, or your entire crop being eaten by locusts.
really? Why doesn't the Dark One do that whether I say his name or not?
If I am worth spending the resources to plague if I say his name, why aren't I worth the trouble if I *don't* say his name?
Jehovah!
I just wanted to add a plug for Joe Abercrombie. In terms of fantasy, I think he's an author to watch.
His stories contain much of the usual stuff (magi, barbarians, epic battles and quests), but this writing, characterisation and sense of plot are superior, at least, so I thought. He has the ability, rare in fantasy, of taking the usual tropes and doing something memorable with them.
Quote from: Gups on February 24, 2010, 09:22:47 AM
Never read any Jordan. I've thought about doing so in the past but having learnt that he calls a character "The Dark One" is enough to put me off.
Re Martin, the books are great (except the last one which was mediocre) but I really don't want to have to reread them every few years so I can enjoy the latest.
Ive been wanting to read the series as well. I bought the first book but couldn't get through it because I lost interest. Seems to happen a lot nowadays when I try to find a new fantasy book to read. :( I picked up the first book of The Runelords series but so far it's only Meh.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 24, 2010, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: Gups on February 24, 2010, 09:22:47 AM
Never read any Jordan. I've thought about doing so in the past but having learnt that he calls a character "The Dark One" is enough to put me off.
Re Martin, the books are great (except the last one which was mediocre) but I really don't want to have to reread them every few years so I can enjoy the latest.
The "character" is Dark Eldricht God whom no one dares say the real name of.
Voldemort!
Quote from: Malthus on February 24, 2010, 10:48:39 AM
I just wanted to add a plug for Joe Abercrombie. In terms of fantasy, I think he's an author to watch.
His stories contain much of the usual stuff (magi, barbarians, epic battles and quests), but this writing, characterisation and sense of plot are superior, at least, so I thought. He has the ability, rare in fantasy, of taking the usual tropes and doing something memorable with them.
He also actually finished his series
Quote from: Malthus on February 24, 2010, 10:48:39 AM
I just wanted to add a plug for Joe Abercrombie. In terms of fantasy, I think he's an author to watch.
His stories contain much of the usual stuff (magi, barbarians, epic battles and quests), but this writing, characterisation and sense of plot are superior, at least, so I thought. He has the ability, rare in fantasy, of taking the usual tropes and doing something memorable with them.
Yeah, I just bought some books from him and got through the first one but lost interest in the 2nd one. I think I was distracted by something but I've been meaning to have a go at it again. I did like the first book.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 24, 2010, 09:26:06 AM
The "character" is Dark Eldricht God whom no one dares say the real name of.
I have a pet theory that he doesn't actually exist and it's just various forsaken passing themselves off as him, but that would probably be too ingenious for Jordan though.
Raistlin gives me a boner.
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 24, 2010, 11:02:35 AM
Raistlin gives me a boner.
Then don't take it until right before sex.
Quote from: Malthus on February 24, 2010, 10:48:39 AM
I just wanted to add a plug for Joe Abercrombie. In terms of fantasy, I think he's an author to watch.
His stories contain much of the usual stuff (magi, barbarians, epic battles and quests), but this writing, characterisation and sense of plot are superior, at least, so I thought. He has the ability, rare in fantasy, of taking the usual tropes and doing something memorable with them.
Amazon reviews back you up. I've added one of his to my wishlist. Been ages since I've read any fanatsy, will look forward to it.
I trust Malthus & I'll check out Joe Abercrombie.
Malthus, how is the english of these books? Tolkienesque?
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 24, 2010, 11:37:54 AM
I trust Malthus & I'll check out Joe Abercrombie.
Malthus, how is the english of these books? Tolkienesque?
Not in the slightest. The style is more gritty realism - a sort of 'fantasy noir'.
The books are definitely not for the squeamish. One of the main characters is a professional torturer, for example.
What if you are squeamish but still want to read them? If I send you my copies will you remove the worst parts for me and return them?
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 24, 2010, 11:02:35 AM
Raistlin gives me a boner.
My theory is that Tim modelled himself on Raistlin.
What about your enormous sexual power?
Quote from: The Brain on February 24, 2010, 02:53:23 PM
What about your enormous sexual power?
I put on my robe and wizard hat.
Quote from: Berkut on February 24, 2010, 09:49:53 AM
Quote from: Neil on February 24, 2010, 09:40:40 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 24, 2010, 08:54:03 AM
It fixed the weather. The Dark One had caused an unnatural heat wave/drought. If they hadn't found it everyone in the world would have died. How is that not integral to the plot?
You know what else would fix the weather? Rand beating the Dark One. Instead of using circumstances to advance the plot, the author chose to use them to tell a dull sidestory about unlikeable characters.
Holy.
Fuck.
Now even Neil manages to say what I mean in 1/10th the space, and with much greater clarity.
I am the fucking Robert Jordan of internet posting! :bleeding:
'Now
even Neil'? :yeahright:
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 24, 2010, 11:02:35 AM
Raistlin gives me a boner.
Me too! I've been meaning to finish the time of the twins for like 5 years now.
Have you read Sandersons new book yet? I think its called Warbreaker. I'm dying to read it but I just bought the entire Buffy series so my free time will be very very occupied.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on February 24, 2010, 01:56:37 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 24, 2010, 11:02:35 AM
Raistlin gives me a boner.
My theory is that Tim modelled himself on Raistlin.
If Raistlin was anything like Tim, he would have blown himself to pieces after misspelling the first spell in his book. :nerd:
Quote from: Korea on February 25, 2010, 02:22:56 AM
Have you read Sandersons new book yet? I think its called Warbreaker. I'm dying to read it but I just bought the entire Buffy series so my free time will be very very occupied.
I thought it was awesome. The magic system is even more original and brilliant than the ones in Mistborn, and they were groundbreaking. I can't wait for him to start publishing The Way of Kings, it's gonna be so epic. It's supposed to be a 10 book series, with 10 different magic systems. He had to put it off to finish off the Wheel of Time.
Quote from: Korea on February 25, 2010, 01:14:25 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 24, 2010, 11:02:35 AM
Raistlin gives me a boner.
Me too! I've been meaning to finish the time of the twins for like 5 years now.
Dude! Finish it. The Test of the Twins trilogy is the only Dragonlance trilogy or standalone really worth reading.
You people have ruined this thread.
by all this non-Game of Thrones talk. Who the fuck cares.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on February 25, 2010, 07:22:56 AM
Quote from: Korea on February 25, 2010, 01:14:25 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 24, 2010, 11:02:35 AM
Raistlin gives me a boner.
Me too! I've been meaning to finish the time of the twins for like 5 years now.
Dude! Finish it. The Test of the Twins trilogy is the only Dragonlance trilogy or standalone really worth reading.
Yup, definitely true.
Laurana, Tika, Goldmoon, even Crysania. None of them pull their braids.
Quote from: Neil on February 25, 2010, 08:30:07 AM
Laurana, Tika, Goldmoon, even Crysania. None of them pull their braids.
Takhisis might have.
Quote from: Martinus on February 25, 2010, 02:33:05 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on February 24, 2010, 01:56:37 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 24, 2010, 11:02:35 AM
Raistlin gives me a boner.
My theory is that Tim modelled himself on Raistlin.
If Raistlin was anything like Tim, he would have blown himself to pieces after misspelling the first spell in his book. :nerd:
HA! Marti finally scores. :lol:
So what's your favorite Game of Thrones character?
Quote from: The Brain on February 25, 2010, 09:34:30 AM
So what's your favorite Game of Thrones character?
That one that gets killed in book 1.
Quote from: grumbler on February 25, 2010, 09:42:39 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 25, 2010, 09:34:30 AM
So what's your favorite Game of Thrones character?
That one that gets killed in book 1.
Poor Ser Waymar Royce. :cry:
Quote from: The Larch on February 25, 2010, 10:09:41 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 25, 2010, 09:42:39 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 25, 2010, 09:34:30 AM
So what's your favorite Game of Thrones character?
That one that gets killed in book 1.
Poor Ser Waymar Royce. :cry:
Who incidentally will be played by Jamie Campbell Bower. :perv:
Quote from: Solmyr on February 25, 2010, 10:11:19 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 25, 2010, 10:09:41 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 25, 2010, 09:42:39 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 25, 2010, 09:34:30 AM
So what's your favorite Game of Thrones character?
That one that gets killed in book 1.
Poor Ser Waymar Royce. :cry:
Who incidentally will be played by Jamie Campbell Bower. :perv:
What's the cast so far for the HBO pilot?
Littlefinger, hands down.
Quote from: The Larch on February 25, 2010, 10:12:41 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on February 25, 2010, 10:11:19 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 25, 2010, 10:09:41 AM
Quote from: grumbler on February 25, 2010, 09:42:39 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 25, 2010, 09:34:30 AM
So what's your favorite Game of Thrones character?
That one that gets killed in book 1.
Poor Ser Waymar Royce. :cry:
Who incidentally will be played by Jamie Campbell Bower. :perv:
What's the cast so far for the HBO pilot?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0944947/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0944947/)
I can't decide on a favorite character. There's so many great ones.
I also like Dany Kaye.
Quote from: The Brain on February 25, 2010, 03:54:29 PM
I can't decide on a favorite character. There's so many great ones.
Oberyn Martell, obviously. So over the top, so hammish. Delightful.
Davos is my favorite outside of the obvious "greats" of Jon and Tyrion.
Tyrion, Sansa, Sandor.
Raistlin, Rincewind, Sparhawk
Quote from: The Brain on February 25, 2010, 03:54:29 PM
I can't decide on a favorite character. There's so many great ones.
Yep, I like Snow before he got so emo. Jaime in the latest book. Arya.
The Late Lord Frey is a canny old duck. Right in the midst of the fighting all this time and has yet to pay the butcher.
I liked Arya better before she started executing people for desertion.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 25, 2010, 04:52:14 AM
Quote from: Korea on February 25, 2010, 02:22:56 AM
Have you read Sandersons new book yet? I think its called Warbreaker. I'm dying to read it but I just bought the entire Buffy series so my free time will be very very occupied.
I thought it was awesome. The magic system is even more original and brilliant than the ones in Mistborn, and they were groundbreaking. I can't wait for him to start publishing The Way of Kings, it's gonna be so epic. It's supposed to be a 10 book series, with 10 different magic systems. He had to put it off to finish off the Wheel of Time.
I love and hate that it's going to be a 10 book series. I love that there will be so much to read but I hate that I will have to wait to read it. I've only ever bought completed fantasy series so how long is the wait usually between books? Martin excluded obviously.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on February 25, 2010, 07:22:56 AM
Quote from: Korea on February 25, 2010, 01:14:25 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 24, 2010, 11:02:35 AM
Raistlin gives me a boner.
Me too! I've been meaning to finish the time of the twins for like 5 years now.
Dude! Finish it. The Test of the Twins trilogy is the only Dragonlance trilogy or standalone really worth reading.
It's on my amazon wish list. :whistle:
I like Sandor and Jaime. When Jaime first appears he is so in your face.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 26, 2010, 12:58:46 AM
I liked Arya better before she started executing people for desertion.
That's when she got really awesome.
Tyrion is my absolute favorite, he should totally inherit Westeros.
Twinkie the kid is GRRM's favorite character, followed by Fruit Pie the Magician.
Quote from: Solmyr on February 26, 2010, 07:06:00 PM
Tyrion is my absolute favorite, he should totally inherit Westeros.
If Peter Jackson directed the TV series he would only be used for (not very) comic relief.
Quote from: Korea on February 26, 2010, 01:07:37 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 25, 2010, 04:52:14 AM
Quote from: Korea on February 25, 2010, 02:22:56 AM
Have you read Sandersons new book yet? I think its called Warbreaker. I'm dying to read it but I just bought the entire Buffy series so my free time will be very very occupied.
I thought it was awesome. The magic system is even more original and brilliant than the ones in Mistborn, and they were groundbreaking. I can't wait for him to start publishing The Way of Kings, it's gonna be so epic. It's supposed to be a 10 book series, with 10 different magic systems. He had to put it off to finish off the Wheel of Time.
I love and hate that it's going to be a 10 book series. I love that there will be so much to read but I hate that I will have to wait to read it. I've only ever bought completed fantasy series so how long is the wait usually between books? Martin excluded obviously.
He writes very fast, once he's finished the WoT I would think he could put a book out once every 12-18 months.
Quote from: The Brain on February 26, 2010, 07:10:14 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on February 26, 2010, 07:06:00 PM
Tyrion is my absolute favorite, he should totally inherit Westeros.
If Peter Jackson directed the TV series he would only be used for (not very) comic relief.
Gimli really wasn't that important.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 26, 2010, 07:16:30 PM
Quote from: Korea on February 26, 2010, 01:07:37 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 25, 2010, 04:52:14 AM
Quote from: Korea on February 25, 2010, 02:22:56 AM
Have you read Sandersons new book yet? I think its called Warbreaker. I'm dying to read it but I just bought the entire Buffy series so my free time will be very very occupied.
I thought it was awesome. The magic system is even more original and brilliant than the ones in Mistborn, and they were groundbreaking. I can't wait for him to start publishing The Way of Kings, it's gonna be so epic. It's supposed to be a 10 book series, with 10 different magic systems. He had to put it off to finish off the Wheel of Time.
Ugh, it will still be worth it.
I love and hate that it's going to be a 10 book series. I love that there will be so much to read but I hate that I will have to wait to read it. I've only ever bought completed fantasy series so how long is the wait usually between books? Martin excluded obviously.
He writes very fast, once he's finished the WoT I would think he could put a book out once every 12-18 months.
i enjoyed many of the more minor characters in their illustrations. syrio and his fight;"hello. my name is oberyn mantell, you killed my sister. prepare to die"; tragic viserys; quiet podrick; illiterate and queer knight of flowers; my favorite POV characters are bran, davos, and theon, though
Quote from: LaCroix on February 27, 2010, 12:41:46 AM
my favorite POV characters are bran, davos, and theon
Why Theon?
Ugh, I hate Bran (and Sansa) as POVs. I just found most of the children POVs pretty boring.
My favorite ones were Tyrion and Jaime.
Quote from: The Brain on February 26, 2010, 01:37:43 PM
I like Sandor and Jaime. When Jaime first appears he is so in your face.
Do you like guys coming in your face?
Quote from: Martinus on February 27, 2010, 03:58:45 AM
Ugh, I hate Bran (and Sansa) as POVs. I just found most of the children POVs pretty boring.
My favorite ones were Tyrion and Jaime.
Sansa's are interesting because of the situations she's in. She gets to witness lots of key stuff, and you get a unique perspective of Littlefinger's actions through her.
Oberyn and Davos were my favourites. Oberyn in particular - I loved how he lived completely outside any of the norms of his society, training for a while to be a maester and then just traveling the world. And throughout it all, he was a devoted brother, biding his time and secretly intent on revenge for his sister's death.
Anyway, too bad Martin will never finish the series.
Quote from: Habbaku on February 27, 2010, 03:55:57 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on February 27, 2010, 12:41:46 AM
my favorite POV characters are bran, davos, and theon
Why Theon?
His arrival at the Islands is hilarious, though that is mostly due to his sister. My favourites are Jon, Tyrion, Oberyn and Davos.
There's a few too many near death experiences with major characters. IMHO it would have been better if more of them had been actual deaths (although thankfully there is a fairly decent number of actual deaths). Eg Bran falling and Arya being held by the Tickler, and in all likelihood Briennne hanging.
Quote from: Habbaku on February 27, 2010, 03:55:57 AMWhy Theon?
mostly because of his character flaws; i liked how highly he regarded himself, and how he completely botched a pretty well conceived plan through his own hubris
i liked the sansa chapters quite a bit in the first novel, same with arya, but in the last few books i've been losing interest in their subplots (though i'm interested to see what happens with littlefinger). i never liked jon, he seemed to be from the start the main character, and his "loner, dark figure with lone, albino wolf--so unique" never appealed to me. his plot is entertaining, though, i just don't like the character
@brain: still less than a turtledove series :P
For the record, I liked Oberyn and Loras a lot as well, but I thought we were talking about POV characters.
Quote from: Martinus on February 27, 2010, 05:37:05 PM
For the record, I liked Oberyn and Loras a lot as well, but I thought we were talking about POV characters.
Try not to think and maybe you'll be more correct in life.
Quote from: The Brain on February 27, 2010, 05:46:00 PM
Try not to think and maybe you'll be more correct in life.
He has tried that for years, here, and it didn't work out for him. :(
Honestly, I think this show should not be made until we find out how much of the series Martin will actually write.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 28, 2010, 03:13:52 PM
Honestly, I think this show should not be made until we find out how much of the series Martin will actually write.
Pfft, as if HBO would let it run beyond 3 seasons anyway.
Quote from: The Larch on February 28, 2010, 04:05:12 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 28, 2010, 03:13:52 PM
Honestly, I think this show should not be made until we find out how much of the series Martin will actually write.
Pfft, as if HBO would let it run beyond 3 seasons anyway.
If this show ever ran into the problem of "Oh crap, we caught up to the author, whatever shall we do?" it will be the greatest series on TV ever.
Quote from: Berkut on February 28, 2010, 06:58:59 PM
Quote from: The Larch on February 28, 2010, 04:05:12 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 28, 2010, 03:13:52 PM
Honestly, I think this show should not be made until we find out how much of the series Martin will actually write.
Pfft, as if HBO would let it run beyond 3 seasons anyway.
If this show ever ran into the problem of "Oh crap, we caught up to the author, whatever shall we do?" it will be the greatest series on TV ever.
Slow pace. One season per book, That means he has four years to finish the second half of the fifth book. Then he has to knock off one book per year. This might force him to get is act together. Either that or his twinkie binge will bring on diabetic shock and we can get Brandon Sanderson to finish it for him.
Looks like it's official. Next Spring.
Won't it be awful with all the kids? IMHO kids rarely make for good TV.
I've tried to read this book twice. I just can't get into it.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 02, 2010, 04:27:31 PM
I've tried to read this book twice. I just can't get into it.
Why?
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 02, 2010, 05:23:28 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 02, 2010, 04:27:31 PM
I've tried to read this book twice. I just can't get into it.
Why?
Book is too small and I've gotten too fat.
Quote from: The Brain on March 02, 2010, 04:09:19 PM
Won't it be awful with all the kids? IMHO kids rarely make for good TV.
I thought they were going to up the ages of the kids by a few years? :unsure:
How are they going to do that by next spring?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 02, 2010, 06:38:17 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 02, 2010, 04:09:19 PM
Won't it be awful with all the kids? IMHO kids rarely make for good TV.
I thought they were going to up the ages of the kids by a few years? :unsure:
The kids *are* a few years older than in books. The Sansa girl is 14 IIRC.
Quote from: Sahib on March 02, 2010, 07:05:31 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 02, 2010, 06:38:17 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 02, 2010, 04:09:19 PM
Won't it be awful with all the kids? IMHO kids rarely make for good TV.
I thought they were going to up the ages of the kids by a few years? :unsure:
The kids *are* a few years older than in books. The Sansa girl is 14 IIRC.
Siege is distraught.
Quote from: Maximus on March 02, 2010, 06:44:17 PM
How are they going to do that by next spring?
I've read somewhere that they are already filming it right now. It is just the pilot after all.
No, the pilot finished filming a while ago and was screened, whereupon HBO greenlit the series to be made--one consisting of 9 episodes, it seems, though I've no idea if that includes the pilot or not.
Quote from: Maximus on March 02, 2010, 06:44:17 PM
How are they going to do that by next spring?
Filming doesn't take overly-long. Assuming that they're just doing 9 episodes, I don't see any huge hurdles to their current schedule of filming in June, then finishing editing and so forth over the months afterwards. That gives them 9 months to get the show ready--easily doable.
Quote from: The Brain on March 02, 2010, 04:09:19 PM
Won't it be awful with all the kids? IMHO kids rarely make for good TV.
THis is TV dude. The 'kids' will all be in grad school.
Quote from: Habbaku on March 02, 2010, 08:56:10 PM
No, the pilot finished filming a while ago and was screened, whereupon HBO greenlit the series to be made--one consisting of 9 episodes, it seems, though I've no idea if that includes the pilot or not.
They approved 9 episodes + the pilot for a total of 10 episodes. Filming on the 9 episodes will begin in June.
How is this pushing the envelope? Surely dragons and such in a medieval realm is inherently less fantastic than vampires in modern suburbia.
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118015939.html?categoryid=14&cs=1&ref=verttv&ref=ssp
QuoteAfter drawing a broad audience and critical acclaim with vampires, HBO is now pushing the fantasy envelope even further.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 02, 2010, 10:03:16 PM
How is this pushing the envelope? Surely dragons and such in a medieval realm is inherently less fantastic than vampires in modern suburbia.
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118015939.html?categoryid=14&cs=1&ref=verttv&ref=ssp
QuoteAfter drawing a broad audience and critical acclaim with vampires, HBO is now pushing the fantasy envelope even further.
More costly.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 02, 2010, 07:21:37 PM
Quote from: Sahib on March 02, 2010, 07:05:31 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 02, 2010, 06:38:17 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 02, 2010, 04:09:19 PM
Won't it be awful with all the kids? IMHO kids rarely make for good TV.
I thought they were going to up the ages of the kids by a few years? :unsure:
The kids *are* a few years older than in books. The Sansa girl is 14 IIRC.
Siege is distraught.
Not really. Still in my age group.
:lol:
You are one creepy bastard.
Nobody posted the promotional screencap yet?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freporter.blogs.com%2F.a%2F6a00d83451d69069e201310f542cb2970c-800wi&hash=087035ecad2253972c9b855fd467e94cfa062f9c)
Winter is coming :wub:
http://twitter.com/sophiesansa
fucking useless kiddie actors...
Patrick Stewart is mentioned as one possible candidate for the role of Tywin Lannister. I think he would have been fucking perfect.
Quote from: Martinus on March 04, 2010, 03:56:08 AM
Patrick Stewart is mentioned as one possible candidate for the role of Tywin Lannister. I think he would have been fucking perfect.
WTF?! Him?! As Tywin? The most cruel and effective badass evah? Hardly.
Quote from: Tamas on March 04, 2010, 04:04:25 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 04, 2010, 03:56:08 AM
Patrick Stewart is mentioned as one possible candidate for the role of Tywin Lannister. I think he would have been fucking perfect.
WTF?! Him?! As Tywin? The most cruel and effective badass evah? Hardly.
Why not? He's a proven Shakesperean actor, he can pull off the rhetorical badassery with little effort.
Quote from: Tamas on March 04, 2010, 04:04:25 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 04, 2010, 03:56:08 AM
Patrick Stewart is mentioned as one possible candidate for the role of Tywin Lannister. I think he would have been fucking perfect.
WTF?! Him?! As Tywin? The most cruel and effective badass evah? Hardly.
Have you seen him in the "Lion in Winter" or any of his Shakespearean roles?
Quote from: Martinus on March 04, 2010, 04:49:01 AM
Quote from: Tamas on March 04, 2010, 04:04:25 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 04, 2010, 03:56:08 AM
Patrick Stewart is mentioned as one possible candidate for the role of Tywin Lannister. I think he would have been fucking perfect.
WTF?! Him?! As Tywin? The most cruel and effective badass evah? Hardly.
Have you seen him in the "Lion in Winter" or any of his Shakespearean roles?
Or in "I Claudius", when he still had hair. :lol:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tvworthwatching.com%2Fwerts%2Fi%2520claudius%2520patrick%2520stewart.jpg&hash=14ddbc61bcf1586a182ee7add018c09556365cce)
He could have done a good Evil PIcard if the Mirror Universe had been explored.
In my mind, the only possible actors to portray Tywyn would be Patrick Stewart or Ed Harris.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi84.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk28%2Fpollo28%2FEdHarris.gif&hash=b8d9bdca9141a102a3ae8856f6bc14137b044962)
Then again, that may be too much $$$ for the series' budget. :lol:
Forget Shakespear, he proved his ability to play an evil dude when he became Locutus.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages4.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fmemoryalpha%2Fen%2Fimages%2F5%2F51%2FLocutusOfBorg2367.jpg&hash=48aeb0770214e2442078b84015e89daadcb74f39)
Obsidian to make a Wheel of Time RPG!!!11 :mmm:
http://www.dragonmount.com/News/?p=1193
Patrick Stewart would make a awesome Tywin Lannister.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 04, 2010, 09:27:30 AM
Obsidian to make a Wheel of Time RPG!!!11 :mmm:
http://www.dragonmount.com/News/?p=1193
What an astonishingly bad idea.
Quote from: Viking on March 03, 2010, 05:10:25 PM
http://twitter.com/sophiesansa
fucking useless kiddie actors...
Quote@IsaacBranFlakes AAAHH ISAAC (BRAN) WE HAVE TO HAE A STARK KIDS MEET UP ASAP TO CELEBRATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOVE SHMOPH (YOUR BIG SIS SANSA)
:lol: :bleeding:
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 09:33:08 AM
Patrick Stewart would make a awesome Tywin Lannister.
Agreed.
Quote from: LaCroix on March 04, 2010, 10:05:41 AM
Quote from: Viking on March 03, 2010, 05:10:25 PM
http://twitter.com/sophiesansa
fucking useless kiddie actors...
Quote@IsaacBranFlakes AAAHH ISAAC (BRAN) WE HAVE TO HAE A STARK KIDS MEET UP ASAP TO CELEBRATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOVE SHMOPH (YOUR BIG SIS SANSA)
:lol: :bleeding:
Ahhh, cmon, that is hilarious. The poor girl is just turning 14, what do you expect? She is a kid.
I just hope she does a good job.
I am working through Storm of Swords, Joffs wedding is just finishing up. This is where Sansa, IMO, is really starting to become an interesting character. As far as she knows, he father is dead, her mother is dead, Arya is missing and probably dead, Rob, Bran, and Rickon - all dead. Her direwolf is dead. Her entire freaking family, EVERY SINGLE ONE is dead, and she is married to the Imp, and Joff has told her he is going to basically be raping her whenever he feels like it.
She really should be a babbling idiot at this point. Honestly, I don't know of ANY other character in the series (maybe Beric Dondarrion) who has had a shittier deal than Sansa, and largely (although not entirely) completely beyond her control.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 04, 2010, 09:27:30 AM
Obsidian to make a Wheel of Time RPG!!!11 :mmm:
http://www.dragonmount.com/News/?p=1193
There has been at least one.
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 10:32:49 AM
She really should be a babbling idiot at this point. Honestly, I don't know of ANY other character in the series (maybe Beric Dondarrion) who has had a shittier deal than Sansa, and largely (although not entirely) completely beyond her control.
Well, the first domino to fall was directly her fault...
I just read that girl's twitter. Shoot me now.
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 04, 2010, 11:39:55 AM
I just read that girl's twitter. Shoot me now.
You'll get that at home shortly, don't worry. :P
Quote from: The Larch on March 04, 2010, 11:33:58 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 10:32:49 AM
She really should be a babbling idiot at this point. Honestly, I don't know of ANY other character in the series (maybe Beric Dondarrion) who has had a shittier deal than Sansa, and largely (although not entirely) completely beyond her control.
Well, the first domino to fall was directly her fault...
Not really. She told Cersei about her father plans to leave Kings Landing, but I don't think that fundamentally changed the outcome really.
Eddard Stark was doomed the moment he told Cersei he knew about the kids and asked her to go into exile, and at the same time refused to bargain with Renly.
Blaming anything that happened after than on Sansa is missing the forest for the tree, IMO.
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 11:40:52 AM
Quote from: The Larch on March 04, 2010, 11:33:58 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 10:32:49 AM
She really should be a babbling idiot at this point. Honestly, I don't know of ANY other character in the series (maybe Beric Dondarrion) who has had a shittier deal than Sansa, and largely (although not entirely) completely beyond her control.
Well, the first domino to fall was directly her fault...
Not really. She told Cersei about her father plans to leave Kings Landing, but I don't think that fundamentally changed the outcome really.
Eddard Stark was doomed the moment he told Cersei he knew about the kids and asked her to go into exile, and at the same time refused to bargain with Renly.
Blaming anything that happened after than on Sansa is missing the forest for the tree, IMO.
Eddard was crippingly honest, of course, no doubt about it, but IIRC it was Sansa's fault that Eddard was captured and the few loyal Stark soldiers butchered. She ruined his father's attempt at deposing Joffrey by depriving him of any element of surprise.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 04, 2010, 09:27:30 AM
Obsidian to make a Wheel of Time RPG!!!11 :mmm:
http://www.dragonmount.com/News/?p=1193
:cry:
That's horrible. Obsidian should make Neverwinter Nights 3, or at least the spiritual successor.
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 10:32:49 AM
She really should be a babbling idiot at this point. Honestly, I don't know of ANY other character in the series (maybe Beric Dondarrion) who has had a shittier deal than Sansa, and largely (although not entirely) completely beyond her control.
She was largely the author of her own demise. She began as a character that was incredibly self centred and not that bright - someone who believed in fairy tale endings and even when she saw the worst in her "prince" whe still turned on her sister and even her father in order to preserve her fairy tale ending.
If it wasnt for her going to the Queen her father would not have died and the history of the Kingdom would have been much different. If it was not for her turning on her sister her dire wolf would not have died.
I agree that she starts to become a bit more intersting. But it is still painful to read through the parts where she is involved even after that point. She is kind of like Jack Bauer's daugher in 24 - especially in the early shows. You know she is going to do something stupid and you just want the story teller to get to that point so you can get on with the interesting parts of the story.
As I read through the series I wondered if her character is meant is a stark (no pun intended) justaposition to the Queen of Dragons (forget her name) who starts out as a completely powerless girl who is eager to please and becomes a self assured woman who becomes the most powerful person in the world.
Quote from: The Larch on March 04, 2010, 11:49:45 AM
So, how long until your eldest reaches puberty?
Whenever it is, I hope there's something much worse than the Twilight books/movies that enthralls teenage hearts and minds.
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 10:32:49 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on March 04, 2010, 10:05:41 AM
Quote@IsaacBranFlakes AAAHH ISAAC (BRAN) WE HAVE TO HAE A STARK KIDS MEET UP ASAP TO CELEBRATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOVE SHMOPH (YOUR BIG SIS SANSA)
:lol: :bleeding:
Ahhh, cmon, that is hilarious. The poor girl is just turning 14, what do you expect? She is a kid.
It is hilarious, and like Sansa too. Now she just needs to perfect her reactions to bulbous veiny dwarf cocks.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 04, 2010, 11:53:00 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 10:32:49 AM
She really should be a babbling idiot at this point. Honestly, I don't know of ANY other character in the series (maybe Beric Dondarrion) who has had a shittier deal than Sansa, and largely (although not entirely) completely beyond her control.
She was largely the author of her own demise. She began as a character that was incredibly self centred and not that bright - someone who believed in fairy tale endings and even when she saw the worst in her "prince" whe still turned on her sister and even her father in order to preserve her fairy tale ending.
I don't think that is very fair at all -she was a child. She ahd no idea there was any kind of grander political struggle going on, and hence her "betrayal" was not at all in the context of "Fuck my dad, I am throwing my lot in with Cersei!".
Quote
If it wasnt for her going to the Queen her father would not have died and the history of the Kingdom would have been much different. If it was not for her turning on her sister her dire wolf would not have died.
No, I don't agree at all. Her father would have died anyway - his failure was not tactical, but strategic. If Sansa had not spilled the beans, it would have been something else.
And again, with the direwolf, you are looking too much at the detail of what happened, instead of the overall context that it happened in. Her direwolf died because Robery was weak and incapable of resisting his wife in a meaningful manner. If she had backed Arya, would that suddenly turn Cersei into a reasonable person who would quit nagging her husband and scheming to have him killed? Of course not - it is a detail. Maybe if she had backed Arya, things would turn out differently in the details, but the overall problem and conflict is unchanged.
Another way of looking at it: If Eddard Starks strategy for dealing with the Lannisters is reliant on the good sense of a 13 year old girl, he has already lost no matter what that 13 year old girl actually does. Do you think Cersei was vulnerable to having her plans destroyed utterly by what Tommen does, for example? Of course not.
Quote from: The Larch on March 04, 2010, 11:33:58 AM
Well, the first domino to fall was directly her fault...
Nonsense. Eddard screwed up by announcing his intentions to Cersei.
Quote from: Valmy on March 04, 2010, 12:06:30 PM
Quote from: The Larch on March 04, 2010, 11:33:58 AM
Well, the first domino to fall was directly her fault...
Nonsense. Eddard screwed up by announcing his intentions to Cersei.
I kind of look at any blame assigned to Sansa for what happened like blaiming the left tackle for losing a football game because he missed a block on one play that resulted in a sack when in fact you lost the game by 25 points and couldn't score if your life depended on it all day.
Sure, it was a mistake, and you can create a chain of events that starts there and ends with losing the game, but to focus on that one particular event as important misses what is REALLY important.
It was not Sansa's fault that Ned Stark lost in the game of thrones - it was Ned Starks fault, and Cersei Lannisters and Tywin Lannisters fault. Sansa was just a detail.
You don't get a blithering idiot to play a blithering idiot, you get a genius actor to play a plausible blithering idiot.
But I complained about child actors in general, not this one in particular... apparently teenagers today all do this...
Quote from: Valmy on March 04, 2010, 12:06:30 PM
Quote from: The Larch on March 04, 2010, 11:33:58 AM
Well, the first domino to fall was directly her fault...
Nonsense. Eddard screwed up by announcing his intentions to Cersei.
And this AFTER he had already been attacked by Jaime.
In fact, Jaime is a great example of the difference between how Cersei played and how Ned played. Jaime's attack on the Starks was NOT planned by Cersei, and likely screwed up her actual plans. And yet, this vastly larger wrench did not derail Cersei's plans, as opposed to Ned's being screwed up because a 13 year old girl blabbed about his plan to skip town.
A knight of the Kingsgaurd, the brother of the Queen and father of her children attacks the Hand of the King in the street, kills several of his men and wounds the Hand - and this is handled by the Queen with less disruption than the hands daughter blabbing about his plan to leave on the very day he is planning to leave??
Pfft, she probably knew he was leaving already, or had even had a plan in place for whatever he did. Ned was way out of his league from the moment he agreed to take the position as Roberts hand.
Quote from: Valmy on March 04, 2010, 12:06:30 PM
Quote from: The Larch on March 04, 2010, 11:33:58 AM
Well, the first domino to fall was directly her fault...
Nonsense. Eddard screwed up by announcing his intentions to Cersei.
No, Eddard screwed up by not replacing Lyanna with another Stark or Stark friendly woman. His failure is being Robert's friend when Lyanna died, rather than his ally.
Quote from: Viking on March 04, 2010, 12:23:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 04, 2010, 12:06:30 PM
Quote from: The Larch on March 04, 2010, 11:33:58 AM
Well, the first domino to fall was directly her fault...
Nonsense. Eddard screwed up by announcing his intentions to Cersei.
No, Eddard screwed up by not replacing Lyanna with another Stark or Stark friendly woman. His failure is being Robert's friend when Lyanna died, rather than his ally.
They needed the Lannisters though - and IIRC, Cersei was the price for that help.
And really, how is saddling Robert with Cersei the actions of a friend? It is very much the actions of an ally, its not like Robert liked Cersei beforehand. That was a match that was strictly political.
Of course, given that, Robert completely fucked it up by alienating his new wife. Although, considering her relationship with Jaime, that alienation was probably inevitable.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on March 04, 2010, 11:55:59 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 10:32:49 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on March 04, 2010, 10:05:41 AM
Quote@IsaacBranFlakes AAAHH ISAAC (BRAN) WE HAVE TO HAE A STARK KIDS MEET UP ASAP TO CELEBRATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOVE SHMOPH (YOUR BIG SIS SANSA)
:lol: :bleeding:
Ahhh, cmon, that is hilarious. The poor girl is just turning 14, what do you expect? She is a kid.
It is hilarious, and like Sansa too. Now she just needs to perfect her reactions to bulbous veiny dwarf cocks.
I'd have chosen lemon pies, but that works too.
They (Robert and Ned) needed the Lannisters because they were both broken by her death. They needed the Lannisters because they didn't want to do something they were willing to do (besiege Kings Landing). As they arrived at Kings Landing with their army they were willing to siege the city and kill it's defenders. Jamie swaps side at the last moment "gifting" Robert the crown the moment before he seized it. The Lannisters were in no position to prevent Robert from taking the crown.
But then again the entire point of the story is corruption of the reign of Robert Baratheon. If he hadn't allowed the Lannisters to sow doubt about his right and ability to rule by seeming to be kingmakers, when they were no such thing, he would have lived longer.
I am blurry on the timing of the agreement to have Cersei marry Robert.
Just because it turned out in the end that perhaps Lannister help was not needed doesn't mean that they did not need the help at the time of the agreement. And possibly more important than getting the Lannisters to help is making sure they don't actively help Aerys.
In any case, the agreement to marry Cersei to Robert was, AFAIK, strictly political. If Ned was acting as Roberts friend in the matter, I don't see him suggesting that at all.
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 12:38:09 PM
I am blurry on the timing of the agreement to have Cersei marry Robert.
Just because it turned out in the end that perhaps Lannister help was not needed doesn't mean that they did not need the help at the time of the agreement. And possibly more important than getting the Lannisters to help is making sure they don't actively help Aerys.
In any case, the agreement to marry Cersei to Robert was, AFAIK, strictly political. If Ned was acting as Roberts friend in the matter, I don't see him suggesting that at all.
Lyanna dies during Roberts revolt towards the end. At the time Robert marries a Stark and Jon and Eddard marry Tulleys. The alliance which overthrows the king is Baratheon, Stark, Arryn and Tulley.
After Jamie kills the king and opens the gates of Kings Landing to the rebels Ned and Robert are sad, Ned goes home, Jon becomes Roberts adviser. Robert then marries Cercei at a moment of weakness (the woman he loves is dead, his fosterbrother has left).
Quote from: Viking on March 04, 2010, 12:44:23 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 12:38:09 PM
I am blurry on the timing of the agreement to have Cersei marry Robert.
Just because it turned out in the end that perhaps Lannister help was not needed doesn't mean that they did not need the help at the time of the agreement. And possibly more important than getting the Lannisters to help is making sure they don't actively help Aerys.
In any case, the agreement to marry Cersei to Robert was, AFAIK, strictly political. If Ned was acting as Roberts friend in the matter, I don't see him suggesting that at all.
Lyanna dies during Roberts revolt towards the end. At the time Robert marries a Stark and Jon and Eddard marry Tulleys. The alliance which overthrows the king is Baratheon, Stark, Arryn and Tulley.
After Jamie kills the king and opens the gates of Kings Landing to the rebels Ned and Robert are sad, Ned goes home, Jon becomes Roberts adviser. Robert then marries Cercei at a moment of weakness (the woman he loves is dead, his fosterbrother has left).
Ahhh, for some reason I was thinking that marrying Cersei was the price for Lannister help, but of course that makes no sense, since the Lannisters joined after the Trident, when Lyanna was still alive.
So why did Robert marry Cersei?
Ned had bailed on Kings Landing after being disgusted with the killing of the the Targaryens, so I would say his not being there was more a matter of him being pissed off than anything else - not sure if his being there would have changed Roberts decision to marry Cersei, but I guess I am not really sure what motivated that decision in any case.
He needed an heir, I guess, so he had to find someone to marry, and cementing an alliance between Baratheon and Lannister made sense at that point? Not really sure, to be honest.
I think we can all agree that at the end of the day, the entire mess was all Lyanna's fault, for being such a whore.
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 12:53:11 PM
Ned had bailed on Kings Landing after being disgusted with the killing of the the Targaryens, so I would say his not being there was more a matter of him being pissed off than anything else - not sure if his being there would have changed Roberts decision to marry Cersei, but I guess I am not really sure what motivated that decision in any case.
Ned bailed to go get Lyanna, and then took Jon to the North out of reach of Robert
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 12:53:11 PM
Ahhh, for some reason I was thinking that marrying Cersei was the price for Lannister help, but of course that makes no sense, since the Lannisters joined after the Trident, when Lyanna was still alive.
So why did Robert marry Cersei?
Ned had bailed on Kings Landing after being disgusted with the killing of the the Targaryens, so I would say his not being there was more a matter of him being pissed off than anything else - not sure if his being there would have changed Roberts decision to marry Cersei, but I guess I am not really sure what motivated that decision in any case.
He needed an heir, I guess, so he had to find someone to marry, and cementing an alliance between Baratheon and Lannister made sense at that point? Not really sure, to be honest.
Agreed, to be honest after Jamies behaviour Robert could have plausibly either executed him or exiled him on the grounds that no King can suffer a Kingslayer to live (viz Pizzarro). Tywin probably had written Jamie off as dead since he was in the Kings Guard.
He needed to marry somebody. Ned didn't replace Lyanna, so Tywin did.
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 12:03:41 PM
I don't think that is very fair at all -she was a child. She ahd no idea there was any kind of grander political struggle going on, and hence her "betrayal" was not at all in the context of "Fuck my dad, I am throwing my lot in with Cersei!".
Nobody is saying that she made a cold hearted calculation of her chances, she was a child (although verging on matureness) that was seduced by the glitter of the Lannister's and the court, which played into her fairy tale princess mentality. Anyway her age doesn't redeem her from the cardinal mistake of TURNING AGAINST YOUR OWN FAMILY. It was said that she was the less Stark-ish of the kids, being more of a Tully than a Stark, but even the Tully motto (Family, Duty, Honour), that she should have branded in her mind since she was a baby, reminded her about not doing exactly what she did.
QuoteNo, I don't agree at all. Her father would have died anyway - his failure was not tactical, but strategic. If Sansa had not spilled the beans, it would have been something else.
I agree that Eddard's position was untenable, but he still had his chance, and he risked it with the deposition attempt. Sansa's spilling of the beans ruined that gamble, which admitedly was risky, but not utterly doomed.
QuoteAnother way of looking at it: If Eddard Starks strategy for dealing with the Lannisters is reliant on the good sense of a 13 year old girl, he has already lost no matter what that 13 year old girl actually does. Do you think Cersei was vulnerable to having her plans destroyed utterly by what Tommen does, for example? Of course not.
I don't think that Eddard's plans were reliant on Sansa, I guess that Eddard simply didn't factor her into the equation, assuming that she'd be the dutiful daughter she had always been.
Quote from: Valmy on March 04, 2010, 12:06:30 PM
Quote from: The Larch on March 04, 2010, 11:33:58 AM
Well, the first domino to fall was directly her fault...
Nonsense. Eddard screwed up by announcing his intentions to Cersei.
Nobody is depriving Eddard of his fair share of blame for being such an utter fool.
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 12:38:09 PM
I am blurry on the timing of the agreement to have Cersei marry Robert.
IIRC, it was part of the peace agreement at the end of the war, in order to get stability for the kingdom, as the Lannisters, which were the richest and one of the most powerful families, were basically untouched by the whole war and had fresh armies, while the rest were tire and war-exhausted. The wedding, brokered by Arryn, was the price to pay in order to keep the Lannisters (and their money) at the new king's side.
I liked the character Sansa's progression from very naive to fairly sophisticated while being under great pressure for long periods.
Quote from: Viking on March 04, 2010, 12:44:23 PMLyanna dies during Roberts revolt towards the end. At the time Robert marries a Stark and Jon and Eddard marry Tulleys. The alliance which overthrows the king is Baratheon, Stark, Arryn and Tulley.
After Jamie kills the king and opens the gates of Kings Landing to the rebels Ned and Robert are sad, Ned goes home, Jon becomes Roberts adviser. Robert then marries Cercei at a moment of weakness (the woman he loves is dead, his fosterbrother has left).
Robert and Lyanna weren't married, but engaged. Lyanna's abduction by Rhaegar, and the carnage that followed (Brandon and Rickard Stark, Ned's brother and father being killed by Mad King Aerys) is what triggered the civil war.
Quote from: The Brain on March 04, 2010, 01:29:26 PM
I liked the character Sansa's progression from very naive to fairly sophisticated while being under great pressure for long periods.
Yup, that's the great thing about her episodes, IMO. She goes from being a head-on-the-clouds girl with a princess mentality to a budding player of the game of thrones in a couple of books.
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 12:03:41 PM
I don't think that is very fair at all -she was a child. She ahd no idea there was any kind of grander political struggle going on, and hence her "betrayal" was not at all in the context of "Fuck my dad, I am throwing my lot in with Cersei!".
She very much did throw her lot in with Cersie. She made a concious choice to tell the Queen what her dad expressly told her not to tell the Queen and she did it for the "love" of her prince.
QuoteNo, I don't agree at all. Her father would have died anyway - his failure was not tactical, but strategic. If Sansa had not spilled the beans, it would have been something else.
I dont think so. If the Queen had never been tipped off Stark's plan would have worked. Little Finger switched sides when he realized which way the wind was blowing. As the book says, Cersei as able to get to him (once she knew what was happening - thanks to Sansa) and pay off Little Finger.
QuoteAnd again, with the direwolf, you are looking too much at the detail of what happened, instead of the overall context that it happened in. Her direwolf died because Robery was weak and incapable of resisting his wife in a meaningful manner. If she had backed Arya, would that suddenly turn Cersei into a reasonable person who would quit nagging her husband and scheming to have him killed? Of course not - it is a detail. Maybe if she had backed Arya, things would turn out differently in the details, but the overall problem and conflict is unchanged.
You are missing the context. Stark questioned Sansa carefully as to what happened. If she had told the truth then there would have been no sentence to carry out against anyone or anything because Stark would have had the evidence to confirm the what his other daughter had said and find that it was Rob who was at fault. Cersei could not have done a thing about it. The thing that empowered Cersei was that Sansa lied.
QuoteAnother way of looking at it: If Eddard Starks strategy for dealing with the Lannisters is reliant on the good sense of a 13 year old girl, he has already lost no matter what that 13 year old girl actually does. Do you think Cersei was vulnerable to having her plans destroyed utterly by what Tommen does, for example? Of course not.
Stark's strategy was not reliant on his daugher. He just needed her to keep her mouth shut about what she had heard him discuss with others. Yes he made a mistake by telling her what would happen but all she had to do was not say anything as she was told to do by her father. As stated above, she made a concious choice not to but instead to run to Cersei because she feared for her fairy tale wedding.
She was a pouty, petulent, lying young women who was about to be married - not a child.
Btw I can't think up any contrived Kerry King joke. :(
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 04, 2010, 01:35:52 PM
She was a pouty, petulent, lying young women who was about to be married - not a child.
Save it for the jury.
Quote from: The Brain on March 04, 2010, 01:44:24 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 04, 2010, 01:35:52 PM
She was a pouty, petulent, lying young women who was about to be married - not a child.
Save it for the jury.
I cant help myself.
Btw, will the TV series actually show Drogo father of Frodo pounding away at child pussy and the child growing to enjoy it over a prolonged period of repeated, er, romance? Or will they pussy out and make the characters a few years older, like that lame fag Tim Burton did with Alice?
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 04, 2010, 01:35:52 PM
Stark's strategy was not reliant on his daugher. He just needed her to keep her mouth shut about what she had heard him discuss with others. Yes he made a mistake by telling her what would happen but all she had to do was not say anything as she was told to do by her father. As stated above, she made a concious choice not to but instead to run to Cersei because she feared for her fairy tale wedding.
She was a pouty, petulent, lying young women who was about to be married - not a child.
But that is the point - Ned's plans were betrayed because his planning was shit all along - he was just reacting to things that happened, rather than trying to impose his will on the things that happened.
Who can say what would have happened if Sansa had not told Cersei about Neds plans - it is impossible to say - but what we do know is that at every turn, Cersei was a step ahead of Ned. Ned lost because he was outplayed by Cersei, not because Sansa told Cersei some detail of his plan.
This is like arguing that the Colts beat the Lions 35-3 because some particular cornerback let a WR go for a TD in the first quarter, and after that the Colts killed them. If it wasn't Sansa, it would be someone else, or something else. Ned was doomed by his own hubris and lack of skill at the game he got himself into - he was simply outmatched.
In one particular case, on one particular play, Cerseis ability to play (and understand and manipulate) Sansa happened to be the means to execute her play - but that isn't why she won and Ned lost, by any means.
Quote from: The Brain on March 04, 2010, 01:51:34 PM
Btw, will the TV series actually show Drogo father of Frodo pounding away at child pussy and the child growing to enjoy it over a prolonged period of repeated, er, romance? Or will they pussy out and make the characters a few years older, like that lame fag Tim Burton did with Alice?
"ehh... since westeros has a strange annual cycle anyway, 7 year winter and all that shit, Daenyris will be played by Lauren Bacall"
Quote from: The Brain on March 04, 2010, 01:51:34 PM
Btw, will the TV series actually show Drogo father of Frodo pounding away at child pussy and the child growing to enjoy it over a prolonged period of repeated, er, romance? Or will they pussy out and make the characters a few years older, like that lame fag Tim Burton did with Alice?
The latter, of course.
Once again TV fails me.
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 01:55:57 PM
Who can say what would have happened if Sansa had not told Cersei about Neds plans - it is impossible to say - but what we do know is that at every turn, Cersei was a step ahead of Ned. Ned lost because he was outplayed by Cersei, not because Sansa told Cersei some detail of his plan.
This is like arguing that the Colts beat the Lions 35-3 because some particular cornerback let a WR go for a TD in the first quarter, and after that the Colts killed them. If it wasn't Sansa, it would be someone else, or something else. Ned was doomed by his own hubris and lack of skill at the game he got himself into - he was simply outmatched.
Thats not the way I read the book. We will have to agree to disagree on this one. I thought the author gave a pretty good explanation of what went wrong and it centred, for tragic effect, on Sansa's betrayal.
I will agree with you that by the end of the last book it is a miracle she is not insane but, judging by the way she is acting at that point, perhaps she is.
I have to essentially agree with Berkut on that one. Sansa's "betrayal" is just a detail IMHO. A reasonably sized detail but still a detail.
Quote from: The Brain on March 04, 2010, 02:06:17 PM
I have to essentially agree with Berkut on that one. Sansa's "betrayal" is just a detail IMHO. A reasonably sized detail but still a detail.
Berkut is right in the sense that if there had been a better plan that could not fail no matter what, then of course the betrayal would not have mattered.
But given the plan that was in place the betrayal was pivotal to the plot.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 04, 2010, 02:01:43 PM
I will agree with you that by the end of the last book it is a miracle she is not insane but, judging by the way she is acting at that point, perhaps she is.
Indeed - it is pretty clear she is completely withdrawn and not interested or capable of showing any kind of real emotion to anyone.
I think the relationship (short as it is) between her and Tyrion is really cool. He really does want to help her, but knows that his efforts are futile on so many levels.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 04, 2010, 02:10:03 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 04, 2010, 02:06:17 PM
I have to essentially agree with Berkut on that one. Sansa's "betrayal" is just a detail IMHO. A reasonably sized detail but still a detail.
Berkut is right in the sense that if there had been a better plan that could not fail no matter what,
Come now, you know I have not said anything of the sort.
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 02:12:48 PM
I think the relationship (short as it is) between her and Tyrion is really cool. He really does want to help her, but knows that his efforts are futile on so many levels.
I agree with you there. For me Tyrion is the most interesting character in the series. I am looking forward to seeing what he does in the book(s) that follow.
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 02:15:37 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 04, 2010, 02:10:03 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 04, 2010, 02:06:17 PM
I have to essentially agree with Berkut on that one. Sansa's "betrayal" is just a detail IMHO. A reasonably sized detail but still a detail.
Berkut is right in the sense that if there had been a better plan that could not fail no matter what,
Come now, you know I have not said anything of the sort.
Colts playing the Lions. What could possibly go wrong.
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 04, 2010, 02:20:26 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 02:12:48 PM
I think the relationship (short as it is) between her and Tyrion is really cool. He really does want to help her, but knows that his efforts are futile on so many levels.
I agree with you there. For me Tyrion is the most interesting character in the series. I am looking forward to seeing what he does in the book(s) that follow.
He's a bit overpowered IMHO. Not only is he incredibly cunning and lucky but he is also, of all things, a badass fighter. And when he finally gets in real trouble in battle he gets bailed out by a pod person.
Quote from: The Brain on March 04, 2010, 02:24:24 PM
He's a bit overpowered IMHO. Not only is he incredibly cunning and lucky but he is also, of all things, a badass fighter. And when he finally gets in real trouble in battle he gets bailed out by a pod person.
:lol:
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 04, 2010, 02:21:06 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 04, 2010, 02:15:37 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 04, 2010, 02:10:03 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 04, 2010, 02:06:17 PM
I have to essentially agree with Berkut on that one. Sansa's "betrayal" is just a detail IMHO. A reasonably sized detail but still a detail.
Berkut is right in the sense that if there had been a better plan that could not fail no matter what,
Come now, you know I have not said anything of the sort.
Colts playing the Lions. What could possibly go wrong.
Saying that Cersei going up against Ned is like the Colts (Cersei) going up against the Lions (Ned) and therefore the outcome of some particular play is not really that important is not at all saying that the only way that play could have gone well would be if Ned had some "perfect" plan that could never go wrong.
Ned lost to Cersei because Cersei was better at the game than he was, not because Sansa told her Ned was going to ship her away from Kings Landing. In fact, if anything it is the other way around - Sansa told Cersei *because* Cersei was better at the game than Ned was - certainly Cerseis plans were never derailed by some child telling her enemies what she was going to do, if for no other reason than she wasn't silly enough to tell children that kind of information.
Sansa telling Cersei was that actions of a 12 year old girl. Or was she 11 at the time?
And what did it really tell Cersei? That Ned was getting his daughters out of Kings Landing, and hence was likely to be making a move. So? It's not like she didn't know that anyway, and she was moving against him already - the most it did was make her decide that now was the time to move (before he got such a valuable hostage out of her control).
I still don't see any reason to think that it changed the outcome in any material manner.
I am also interested in Rhaegar. I like the way your mental image of this character we have never met changes so drastically as the books progress. Once Barristan is telling Daenys about him, you cannot help but wonder if Robert was the real asshole of the War of Rebellion, rather than Rhaegar (yeah, I know, the real asshole was Aerys...bear with me here).
On the other hand, Barristan describes Rhaegar as being intelligent, honorable, and thoughtful. Even if Lyanna was willing, running off with someone betrothed when you are already married and the betrothed in question is heir to a great house when your own kingdom is on precarious ground because your father is insane doesn't really seem very intelligent or thoughful, and certainly is not honorable, even if it isn't as monstrous as the claims that Lyanna was kidnapped would have you believe.
Quote from: The Brain on March 04, 2010, 01:57:22 PM
Once again TV fails me.
If they had Dany played by a child all the action would be off-camera. :contract:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 04, 2010, 02:50:05 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 04, 2010, 01:57:22 PM
Once again TV fails me.
If they had Dany played by a child all the action would be off-camera. :contract:
The actress doesn't interest me. The character does.