A Game of Thrones on HBO - I guess this is really going to happen.

[crazy canuck]

She was a pouty, petulent, lying young women who was about to be married - not a child.

Save it for the jury.

I cant help myself.

[The Brain]

Btw, will the TV series actually show Drogo father of Frodo pounding away at child pussy and the child growing to enjoy it over a prolonged period of repeated, er, romance? Or will they pussy out and make the characters a few years older, like that lame fag Tim Burton did with Alice?

[Berkut]

Stark's strategy was not reliant on his daugher.  He just needed her to keep her mouth shut about what she had heard him discuss with others.  Yes he made a mistake by telling her what would happen but all she had to do was not say anything as she was told to do by her father.   As stated above, she made a concious choice not to but instead to run to Cersei because she feared for her fairy tale wedding.

She was a pouty, petulent, lying young women who was about to be married - not a child.

But that is the point - Ned's plans were betrayed because his planning was shit all along - he was just reacting to things that happened, rather than trying to impose his will on the things that happened.

Who can say what would have happened if Sansa had not told Cersei about Neds plans - it is impossible to say - but what we do know is that at every turn, Cersei was a step ahead of Ned. Ned lost because he was outplayed by Cersei, not because Sansa told Cersei some detail of his plan.

This is like arguing that the Colts beat the Lions 35-3 because some particular cornerback let a WR go for a TD in the first quarter, and after that the Colts killed them. If it wasn't Sansa, it would be someone else, or something else. Ned was doomed by his own hubris and lack of skill at the game he got himself into - he was simply outmatched.

In one particular case, on one particular play, Cerseis ability to play (and understand and manipulate) Sansa happened to be the means to execute her play - but that isn't why she won and Ned lost, by any means.

[Viking]

Btw, will the TV series actually show Drogo father of Frodo pounding away at child pussy and the child growing to enjoy it over a prolonged period of repeated, er, romance? Or will they pussy out and make the characters a few years older, like that lame fag Tim Burton did with Alice?

"ehh... since westeros has a strange annual cycle anyway, 7 year winter and all that shit, Daenyris will be played by Lauren Bacall"

[Berkut]

Btw, will the TV series actually show Drogo father of Frodo pounding away at child pussy and the child growing to enjoy it over a prolonged period of repeated, er, romance? Or will they pussy out and make the characters a few years older, like that lame fag Tim Burton did with Alice?

The latter, of course.

[The Brain]

Once again TV fails me.

[crazy canuck]

Who can say what would have happened if Sansa had not told Cersei about Neds plans - it is impossible to say - but what we do know is that at every turn, Cersei was a step ahead of Ned. Ned lost because he was outplayed by Cersei, not because Sansa told Cersei some detail of his plan.

This is like arguing that the Colts beat the Lions 35-3 because some particular cornerback let a WR go for a TD in the first quarter, and after that the Colts killed them. If it wasn't Sansa, it would be someone else, or something else. Ned was doomed by his own hubris and lack of skill at the game he got himself into - he was simply outmatched.

Thats not the way I read the book.  We will have to agree to disagree on this one.  I thought the author gave a pretty good explanation of what went wrong and it centred, for tragic effect, on Sansa's betrayal.

I will agree with you that by the end of the last book it is a miracle she is not insane but, judging by the way she is acting at that point, perhaps she is.

[The Brain]

I have to essentially agree with Berkut on that one. Sansa's "betrayal" is just a detail IMHO. A reasonably sized detail but still a detail.

[crazy canuck]

I have to essentially agree with Berkut on that one. Sansa's "betrayal" is just a detail IMHO. A reasonably sized detail but still a detail.

Berkut is right in the sense that if there had been a better plan that could not fail no matter what, then of course the betrayal would not have mattered.

But given the plan that was in place the betrayal was pivotal to the plot.

[Berkut]

I will agree with you that by the end of the last book it is a miracle she is not insane but, judging by the way she is acting at that point, perhaps she is.

Indeed - it is pretty clear she is completely withdrawn and not interested or capable of showing any kind of real emotion to anyone.

I think the relationship (short as it is) between her and Tyrion is really cool. He really does want to help her, but knows that his efforts are futile on so many levels.

[Berkut]

I have to essentially agree with Berkut on that one. Sansa's "betrayal" is just a detail IMHO. A reasonably sized detail but still a detail.

Berkut is right in the sense that if there had been a better plan that could not fail no matter what,

Come now, you know I have not said anything of the sort.

[crazy canuck]

I think the relationship (short as it is) between her and Tyrion is really cool. He really does want to help her, but knows that his efforts are futile on so many levels.

I agree with you there.  For me Tyrion is the most interesting character in the series.  I am looking forward to seeing what he does in the book(s) that follow.

[crazy canuck]

I have to essentially agree with Berkut on that one. Sansa's "betrayal" is just a detail IMHO. A reasonably sized detail but still a detail.

Berkut is right in the sense that if there had been a better plan that could not fail no matter what,

Come now, you know I have not said anything of the sort.

Colts playing the Lions.  What could possibly go wrong.

[The Brain]

I think the relationship (short as it is) between her and Tyrion is really cool. He really does want to help her, but knows that his efforts are futile on so many levels.

I agree with you there.  For me Tyrion is the most interesting character in the series.  I am looking forward to seeing what he does in the book(s) that follow.

He's a bit overpowered IMHO. Not only is he incredibly cunning and lucky but he is also, of all things, a badass fighter. And when he finally gets in real trouble in battle he gets bailed out by a pod person.

[DisturbedPervert]

He's a bit overpowered IMHO. Not only is he incredibly cunning and lucky but he is also, of all things, a badass fighter. And when he finally gets in real trouble in battle he gets bailed out by a pod person.