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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2013, 12:36:09 AM

Poll
Question: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Option 1: Yes, with regards to both personal compatibility and wealth/familial alliances. votes: 11
Option 2: Only in regards to wealth/familial alliances. votes: 7
Option 3: Only in regards to personal compatibility. votes: 0
Option 4: Not at all votes: 24
Option 5: My parents actually aranged my marriage! (Tell us how it went!) votes: 2
Title: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2013, 12:36:09 AM
If you had grown up in a more traditional society, with your and your parent's personalities and relationship being the same, would you have trusted them to make an arranged marriage?

Feel free to elaborate on why, or why not.

EDIT: DAMN IT! Where the fuck did that last d come from in option 5!?
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 30, 2013, 12:43:16 AM
I can't really imagine myself being willing to let someone else pick for me.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Sheilbh on October 30, 2013, 12:43:38 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2013, 12:36:09 AM
EDIT: DAMN IT! Where the fuck did that last d come from in option 5!?
Who can say?
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Syt on October 30, 2013, 12:46:22 AM
My parents weren't able to plan a budget for the upcoming month; no way I would have trusted them to arrange a marriage.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2013, 12:46:47 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 30, 2013, 12:43:16 AM
I can't really imagine myself being willing to let someone else pick for me.
Yeah, but for most people that's how it was from the invention of agriculture on until the 19th century or later depending on the country.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2013, 12:48:33 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 30, 2013, 12:43:38 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2013, 12:36:09 AM
EDIT: DAMN IT! Where the fuck did that last d come from in option 5!?
Who can say?
D key is next to the E key, I was typing fast! Who knew this could happen! :weep:
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Razgovory on October 30, 2013, 12:55:39 AM
They can't have done worse then I did.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Sheilbh on October 30, 2013, 12:59:28 AM
I wouldn't trust them personally.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 30, 2013, 01:09:32 AM
Oh, hell no.  Mom would've picked someone just like Mom.  Fuck that noise.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2013, 01:12:27 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 30, 2013, 01:09:32 AM
Oh, hell no.  Mom would've picked someone just like Mom.  Fuck that noise.
Aren't you a big Momma's boy though? :yeahright:
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Ideologue on October 30, 2013, 01:38:05 AM
My dad has a demonstrated affinity for overweight women.  I simply cannot trust his judgment.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Camerus on October 30, 2013, 01:49:33 AM
Versus what?  The village elder choosing for me?  I'd trust my parents in the matter more than anyone else, save versus my own judgement.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2013, 02:09:54 AM
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on October 30, 2013, 01:49:33 AM
Versus what?  The village elder choosing for me?  I'd trust my parents in the matter more than anyone else, save versus my own judgement.
Wasn't really setting up the question in that way, just wanted to know if you guys thought you parents would do a good job.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Iormlund on October 30, 2013, 03:11:26 AM
:lol:

No. Not even my sister, who would most likely do a much better job.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Syt on October 30, 2013, 03:21:36 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2013, 02:09:54 AM
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on October 30, 2013, 01:49:33 AM
Versus what?  The village elder choosing for me?  I'd trust my parents in the matter more than anyone else, save versus my own judgement.
Wasn't really setting up the question in that way, just wanted to know if you guys thought you parents would do a good job.

My parents had a shotgun wedding in 1960 when my Mom was 8 months pregnant.

Considering that I grew up seeing them tolerating each other (I don't recall any displays of affection for one another, but also no fighting) because the family was too poor to go through a divorce, I wouldn't trust either of them with picking a partner for me; doubly so because I never felt compelled to share preferences beyond food with them (and with my Dad not even that much).
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Josquius on October 30, 2013, 03:44:57 AM
I don't even let my parents know about girls I'm seeing let alone arranging a marriage.
They're from a different planet to me. They don't understand how the world beyond my hometown works. I don't want to marry someone from around there so no way.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Ideologue on October 30, 2013, 03:51:28 AM
I'd let Josq's parent arrange a marriage for me.  I might get a coal miner's daughter, and I've got a bit of a thing for 'em.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 30, 2013, 05:49:01 AM
Hells no. 

Of all the people who've ever pimped me out, only my sister has ever done a decent job.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: dps on October 30, 2013, 06:04:41 AM
I didn't trust my stepfather to have my best interests at heart on anything, and I don't trust my mom's judgment on almost anything, so no way.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: merithyn on October 30, 2013, 07:38:42 AM
My parents would have picked someone that they liked rather than someone that I would like. Mostly because they had so little understanding of who I've become as a person, so they'd pick someone that they liked and hope that it was good enough for me.

So, in a word, no.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Grey Fox on October 30, 2013, 07:43:29 AM
My parents couldn't even pick a good match for themselves, so no I would not have trusted them.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: sbr on October 30, 2013, 07:50:41 AM
They couldn't have done much worse than I did. Also maybe they would have had the sense to not let me try to get back together with my ex.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 30, 2013, 07:53:04 AM
Quote from: sbr on October 30, 2013, 07:50:41 AM
They couldn't have done much worse than I did.

:lol:
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: garbon on October 30, 2013, 08:43:27 AM
I've been lobbying for my mother to play matchmaker.

edit: I understand the poll now...and I don't even know who I am personally compatible with so, I guess choice 2. :blush:
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Malthus on October 30, 2013, 08:48:12 AM
My parents would have picked a wealthy and well-connected woman I would almost certainly have disliked. So option 2.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: PDH on October 30, 2013, 08:50:39 AM
Given that the question posits being raised in a society where that was the norm, of course.  It would be natural for me.  Of course, I wouldn't be me either since my I would come from generations of such marriages - at least on Mom's side that would be 5 generations different (Mom's great great grandfather took a steamship back to Scotland to negotiate for a fair lady to marry).
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 30, 2013, 09:23:54 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2013, 01:12:27 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 30, 2013, 01:09:32 AM
Oh, hell no.  Mom would've picked someone just like Mom.  Fuck that noise.
Aren't you a big Momma's boy though? :yeahright:

Why would I be a "big Momma's boy"?
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: derspiess on October 30, 2013, 09:28:20 AM
My parents' friends & dad's business contacts always had some pretty hott daughters, so I think it probably would have turned out okay-- for me.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Maximus on October 30, 2013, 09:30:34 AM
Quote from: PDH on October 30, 2013, 08:50:39 AM
Given that the question posits being raised in a society where that was the norm, of course.  It would be natural for me.
People can go against social norms.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: garbon on October 30, 2013, 09:33:18 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 30, 2013, 09:30:34 AM
Quote from: PDH on October 30, 2013, 08:50:39 AM
Given that the question posits being raised in a society where that was the norm, of course.  It would be natural for me.
People can go against social norms.

unpossible
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Valmy on October 30, 2013, 09:40:19 AM
Yeah I think my parents would have done a decent job.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: PDH on October 30, 2013, 09:51:52 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 30, 2013, 09:30:34 AM
Quote from: PDH on October 30, 2013, 08:50:39 AM
Given that the question posits being raised in a society where that was the norm, of course.  It would be natural for me.
People can go against social norms.

They can, for the most part they don't.  That is why they are norms.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: merithyn on October 30, 2013, 10:01:26 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 30, 2013, 09:30:34 AM
Quote from: PDH on October 30, 2013, 08:50:39 AM
Given that the question posits being raised in a society where that was the norm, of course.  It would be natural for me.
People can go against social norms.

And I'm glad some do. :hug: :wub:
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: viper37 on October 30, 2013, 10:08:48 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2013, 12:46:47 AM
Yeah, but for most people that's how it was from the invention of agriculture on until the 19th century or later depending on the country.
for higher classes.  Most peasants & poor workers were free in that regard.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: viper37 on October 30, 2013, 10:13:46 AM
My father first tried to get me to date some rich kid.  Than he tried to arrange something with some lumberjack women (yuck).  So, hell no, no way I would have let them choose.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Maximus on October 30, 2013, 10:40:12 AM
Quote from: PDH on October 30, 2013, 09:51:52 AM
They can, for the most part they don't.  That is why they are norms.
Right, but it's not a given.. Unless you consider yourself incapable of defying said norms. Which I doubt.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Valmy on October 30, 2013, 10:41:38 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 30, 2013, 10:40:12 AM
Quote from: PDH on October 30, 2013, 09:51:52 AM
They can, for the most part they don't.  That is why they are norms.
Right, but it's not a given.. Unless you consider yourself incapable of defying said norms. Which I doubt.

Well I would need a good reason to defy norms.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: derspiess on October 30, 2013, 10:45:58 AM
Quote from: merithyn on October 30, 2013, 10:01:26 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 30, 2013, 09:30:34 AM
Quote from: PDH on October 30, 2013, 08:50:39 AM
Given that the question posits being raised in a society where that was the norm, of course.  It would be natural for me.
People can go against social norms.

And I'm glad some do. :hug: :wub:

I shun those who do :angry:
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Malthus on October 30, 2013, 10:49:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 30, 2013, 10:41:38 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 30, 2013, 10:40:12 AM
Quote from: PDH on October 30, 2013, 09:51:52 AM
They can, for the most part they don't.  That is why they are norms.
Right, but it's not a given.. Unless you consider yourself incapable of defying said norms. Which I doubt.

Well I would need a good reason to defy norms.

Matchmaker, Matchmaker, plan me no plans ... [/Fiddler on the Roof]  ;)
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 30, 2013, 10:51:41 AM
I find the concept of a Quebecker lumberjill intriguing.

How big was she Veep?
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Maximus on October 30, 2013, 10:52:47 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 30, 2013, 10:41:38 AM
Well I would need a good reason to defy norms.
Any reason is a good reason.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: The Brain on October 30, 2013, 10:59:36 AM
I'm sure they'd pick a nice girl from a respectable family. But personal stuff, no.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Valmy on October 30, 2013, 11:01:45 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 30, 2013, 10:52:47 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 30, 2013, 10:41:38 AM
Well I would need a good reason to defy norms.
Any reason is a good reason.

No, defying societal norms requires effort and sometimes sacrifice.  I would rather be using my efforts to do something more interesting and important.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Malthus on October 30, 2013, 11:02:29 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 30, 2013, 10:59:36 AM
I'm sure they'd pick a nice girl from a respectable family. But personal stuff, no.

For one, it would most likely have been a human girl.  ;)
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Malthus on October 30, 2013, 11:04:08 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 30, 2013, 11:01:45 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 30, 2013, 10:52:47 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 30, 2013, 10:41:38 AM
Well I would need a good reason to defy norms.
Any reason is a good reason.

No, defying societal norms requires effort and sometimes sacrifice.  I would rather be using my efforts to do something more interesting and important.

I'll put my fork and knife on the same side of the plate if they kill me for it!  :mad:
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: garbon on October 30, 2013, 11:08:16 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 30, 2013, 11:01:45 AM
Quote from: Maximus on October 30, 2013, 10:52:47 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 30, 2013, 10:41:38 AM
Well I would need a good reason to defy norms.
Any reason is a good reason.

No, defying societal norms requires effort and sometimes sacrifice.  I would rather be using my efforts to do something more interesting and important.

I run around shouting every time I speak. Has not caused me any problems. :)
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: viper37 on October 30, 2013, 12:39:35 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 30, 2013, 10:51:41 AM
I find the concept of a Quebecker lumberjill intriguing.

How big was she Veep?
not huge, just big, not terribly pretty, total lack of class, kept drinking&smoking&gambling.  But her father had a sawmill, wich would have served our interests.  He made a few attemps, than decided I wasn't a real man because I wasn't married at 30, so things ended there.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 30, 2013, 12:40:35 PM
Ah, aiming for a dynastic arrangement.  :yes:
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Barrister on October 30, 2013, 12:42:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 30, 2013, 09:40:19 AM
Yeah I think my parents would have done a decent job.

Yeah.  I mean, if this sort of thing were done, while I don't think they'd have picked out the exact girl I married, I'm sure they would have picked out someone nice.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Ideologue on October 30, 2013, 12:46:35 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 30, 2013, 08:48:12 AM
My parents would have picked a wealthy and well-connected woman I would almost certainly have disliked. So option 2.

Apropos of nothing, I thought it was the funniest thing in the world when it was revealed that Malthus made like the present-day equivalent of $40,000 a year in his bohemian pottery studio.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: merithyn on October 30, 2013, 12:50:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 30, 2013, 11:01:45 AM
No, defying societal norms requires effort and sometimes sacrifice.  I would rather be using my efforts to do something more interesting and important.

The societal norms that you live in aren't constrictive. What if those "norms" required you to dress a certain way, act a certain way, learn only that which is approved, marry only someone who is just like you, and limited the careers that you could do?
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: garbon on October 30, 2013, 12:53:18 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 30, 2013, 12:46:35 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 30, 2013, 08:48:12 AM
My parents would have picked a wealthy and well-connected woman I would almost certainly have disliked. So option 2.

Apropos of nothing, I thought it was the funniest thing in the world when it was revealed that Malthus made like the present-day equivalent of $40,000 a year in his bohemian pottery studio.

:unsure:
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Malthus on October 30, 2013, 12:53:40 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 30, 2013, 12:46:35 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 30, 2013, 08:48:12 AM
My parents would have picked a wealthy and well-connected woman I would almost certainly have disliked. So option 2.

Apropos of nothing, I thought it was the funniest thing in the world when it was revealed that Malthus made like the present-day equivalent of $40,000 a year in his bohemian pottery studio.

$10 an hour?  Hilarious.   :unsure:
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Ideologue on October 30, 2013, 01:03:01 PM
I surrender whatever point I was making.  I just woke up.  Apologies. -_-
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: crazy canuck on October 30, 2013, 01:04:10 PM
All the guys I know who had arranged marriages (within the Sihk community) are all still happily married (although admittedly the sample size is small).  Over half the guys I know who married for love are now divorced - some of them multiple times.

Given divorce rates in Western countries where most people make their own choice and marry for love it seems that if live long marriage is the measure of success then arranged marriages have merit.

Having said all that, there is no way in hell I would have trust my parent's judgment.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 30, 2013, 01:04:22 PM
keep in mind Ide that back then the Loonie was worth a nickel in real money.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 30, 2013, 01:15:17 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 30, 2013, 12:53:40 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 30, 2013, 12:46:35 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 30, 2013, 08:48:12 AM
My parents would have picked a wealthy and well-connected woman I would almost certainly have disliked. So option 2.

Apropos of nothing, I thought it was the funniest thing in the world when it was revealed that Malthus made like the present-day equivalent of $40,000 a year in his bohemian pottery studio.

$10 an hour?  Hilarious.   :unsure:

I believe my parents' first jobs paid around $2.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: crazy canuck on October 30, 2013, 01:17:05 PM
Rich kid Malthus complains about getting well above the then minimum wage. :P
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Malthus on October 30, 2013, 01:49:43 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 30, 2013, 01:15:17 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 30, 2013, 12:53:40 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 30, 2013, 12:46:35 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 30, 2013, 08:48:12 AM
My parents would have picked a wealthy and well-connected woman I would almost certainly have disliked. So option 2.

Apropos of nothing, I thought it was the funniest thing in the world when it was revealed that Malthus made like the present-day equivalent of $40,000 a year in his bohemian pottery studio.

$10 an hour?  Hilarious.   :unsure:

I believe my parents' first jobs paid around $2.

I'm not Grumbler's age yet, you know.  :lol:
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Razgovory on October 30, 2013, 01:52:36 PM
Noted that a lot of the guys who said aren't actually married.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Malthus on October 30, 2013, 01:56:00 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 30, 2013, 01:17:05 PM
Rich kid Malthus complains about getting well above the then minimum wage. :P

:P

I never complained about getting $10 an hour working at the family business. That was pretty good money, for a student.

I complained - or rather, was dissatisfied with - the roughly $2 an hour (after overhead) I was making in my own studeo, as an adult.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: The Brain on October 30, 2013, 01:56:45 PM
Your stu-stu-studeo?
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: merithyn on October 30, 2013, 01:57:14 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 30, 2013, 01:04:10 PM
All the guys I know who had arranged marriages (within the Sihk community) are all still happily married (although admittedly the sample size is small).  Over half the guys I know who married for love are now divorced - some of them multiple times.

Given divorce rates in Western countries where most people make their own choice and marry for love it seems that if live long marriage is the measure of success then arranged marriages have merit.

Having said all that, there is no way in hell I would have trust my parent's judgment.

Once, a long time ago, I had a conversation about this with a friend of mine from India. She was preparing for her upcoming arranged marriage, and was trying to find pleasure in the process. In fact, she was horribly depressed and very unhappy, as she felt that the man her parents had chosen was terribly, terribly wrong for her.

The conversation went along the lines of this: Marrying for love sets up certain unrealistic expectations that are very hard to maintain through the years. Marrying a virtual stranger, on the other hand, means that you're marrying for very different reasons and have very different expectations.

She felt that though she didn't necessarily care for the man she was about to marry, she knew that it wasn't meant to be a "love" marriage. It was, for all intents and purposes, a marriage of convenience for both of them, and so long as they could carry on a conversation and live in the same house together, she would be okay. With luck, they might actually come to care for one another.

I see the value in that way of looking at things. At the same time, it's not a way that I could live for any length of time. If I'm going to compromise on everything for the rest of my life with someone, I damn well better care if he lives or dies.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Malthus on October 30, 2013, 02:02:53 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 30, 2013, 01:04:10 PM
All the guys I know who had arranged marriages (within the Sihk community) are all still happily married (although admittedly the sample size is small).  Over half the guys I know who married for love are now divorced - some of them multiple times.

Given divorce rates in Western countries where most people make their own choice and marry for love it seems that if live long marriage is the measure of success then arranged marriages have merit.

Having said all that, there is no way in hell I would have trust my parent's judgment.

Yes, but as you hint, being still married after many years isn't, I think, a good metric to measure marriages by. Naturally, those who take seriouly a traditional culture that frowns on divorce are less likely to get divorced that those who are not - but that would be true whether the marriages were miserable or happy (or indifferent).

Those who marry for love may get divorced easily when the love is gone and remarry - but the net result is that, over their lifetime, they spend more of ot married to someone they love.

That said, the big problem I see is from the other side - that is, an increasingly large number of people, offered seemingly complete freedom to marry whom they will and few societal barriers, and indeed computer-assisted matchmaking at will, are apparently incapable of meeting and mating with anyone.   :hmm: Some of these people would have been better off in a traditional society where such stuff was structured for them.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Ideologue on October 30, 2013, 02:04:03 PM
I wouldn't say anyone.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: crazy canuck on October 30, 2013, 02:09:09 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 30, 2013, 02:04:03 PM
I wouldn't say anyone.

He meant voluntarily. ;)
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Valmy on October 30, 2013, 02:09:49 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 30, 2013, 12:50:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 30, 2013, 11:01:45 AM
No, defying societal norms requires effort and sometimes sacrifice.  I would rather be using my efforts to do something more interesting and important.

The societal norms that you live in aren't constrictive. What if those "norms" required you to dress a certain way, act a certain way, learn only that which is approved, marry only someone who is just like you, and limited the careers that you could do?

Any particular reason why "norms" is being written like that? :unsure:

It would entirely depend upon how unsatisfied I felt, what reasons I might have for defying said conventions, and how compelling they might be compared to the price.  You know, what I said before, I would have to have good reasons for doing so.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Malthus on October 30, 2013, 02:14:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 30, 2013, 02:09:09 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 30, 2013, 02:04:03 PM
I wouldn't say anyone.

He meant voluntarily. ;)

:lol: :pinch:
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: merithyn on October 30, 2013, 02:19:51 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 30, 2013, 02:09:49 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 30, 2013, 12:50:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 30, 2013, 11:01:45 AM
No, defying societal norms requires effort and sometimes sacrifice.  I would rather be using my efforts to do something more interesting and important.

The societal norms that you live in aren't constrictive. What if those "norms" required you to dress a certain way, act a certain way, learn only that which is approved, marry only someone who is just like you, and limited the careers that you could do?

Any particular reason why "norms" is being written like that? :unsure:

It would entirely depend upon how unsatisfied I felt, what reasons I might have for defying said conventions, and how compelling they might be compared to the price.  You know, what I said before, I would have to have good reasons for doing so.

Max is coming at it from a very different perspective. What you would consider "norms" are not what his family would consider "norms", hence the quotes.

And the norms for his family are incredibly restrictive: specific clothing, specific facial hair, specific education, specific employment, etc. And yes, to a degree, who you marry, since it all has to be approved by not just the individuals, but the parents and the church.

It's not hard to live by societal norms as you know them because they don't have the same restrictions, if any at all. Those who are in arranged marriages, however, are often in circumstances more like those of Max's family than like yours.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Valmy on October 30, 2013, 02:33:47 PM
Quote from: merithyn on October 30, 2013, 02:19:51 PM
Max is coming at it from a very different perspective. What you would consider "norms" are not what his family would consider "norms", hence the quotes.

And the norms for his family are incredibly restrictive: specific clothing, specific facial hair, specific education, specific employment, etc. And yes, to a degree, who you marry, since it all has to be approved by not just the individuals, but the parents and the church.

It's not hard to live by societal norms as you know them because they don't have the same restrictions, if any at all. Those who are in arranged marriages, however, are often in circumstances more like those of Max's family than like yours.

Exactly.  It seems he had pretty compelling reasons to defy societal norms.  It also took considerably effort and sacrifice on his part.  I think one would need pretty good reasons to do so.  Even if I lived in such a constricted society a lot would depend on how my aspirations interacted with those constrictions.  Maybe having an arranged marriage and a lifetime of farming before me suits me fine.  My ancestors seems alright with it.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: viper37 on October 30, 2013, 03:09:02 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 30, 2013, 01:04:10 PM
Given divorce rates in Western countries where most people make their own choice and marry for love it seems that if live long marriage is the measure of success then arranged marriages have merit.
what would be the consequences of divorcing from a family arranged marriage?  Can both parties freely divorce?

I think we need to understand a few more things about social pressure before concluding they are better off.  If divorcing means your family will turn their back on you, the same way they probably would if you change religion, than I really don't think it's such a wise idea.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: The Brain on October 30, 2013, 03:10:38 PM
As long as Canadian courts force people to perform religious acts just because some dame can't remarry within her religion all will be well.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Tonitrus on October 30, 2013, 08:53:22 PM
Meh, considering my current track record, I doubt my parents would do much worse.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 31, 2013, 02:54:48 AM
By the way I was inspired to write this question after reading Otoyomegarari, a historical manga about arranged marriages in 19th century Central Asia. Very detailed art, absolutely beautiful.

http://www.mangareader.net/otoyomegatari/1
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 31, 2013, 07:07:23 AM
No link with the word "manga" in it could ever lead to anything positive or not stupid.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: garbon on October 31, 2013, 07:16:57 AM
:)
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: crazy canuck on October 31, 2013, 10:00:21 AM
Quote from: viper37 on October 30, 2013, 03:09:02 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 30, 2013, 01:04:10 PM
Given divorce rates in Western countries where most people make their own choice and marry for love it seems that if live long marriage is the measure of success then arranged marriages have merit.
what would be the consequences of divorcing from a family arranged marriage?  Can both parties freely divorce?

I think we need to understand a few more things about social pressure before concluding they are better off.  If divorcing means your family will turn their back on you, the same way they probably would if you change religion, than I really don't think it's such a wise idea.

I dont know if they feel free to divorce or not.  I am not sure the extent to which anyone feels "free" to divorce.

I do know that my friends who had arranged marriages seem as content my other friends who remained married and I would say much more content then my friends who are on second, third etc marriages.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Brazen on October 31, 2013, 10:41:25 AM
My mum was right about every man/boy I went out with/lived with/married. I'm sure she could have done better for me than I did.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 31, 2013, 10:42:20 AM
Quote from: Brazen on October 31, 2013, 10:41:25 AM
My mum was right about every man/boy I went out with/lived with/married. I'm sure she could have done better for me than I did.

Did she dislike them all?
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: viper37 on October 31, 2013, 11:00:19 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 31, 2013, 10:00:21 AM
I dont know if they feel free to divorce or not.  I am not sure the extent to which anyone feels "free" to divorce.
Well, in the not so distand past in Quebec, a divorce mostly meant your family would stop speaking to you, you couldn't attend church anymore and most of your friends would avoid you.

Not many divorce.  You weren't happy, you weren't happy, that's all.  Mothers would tell their daughter happiness had nothing to do with marriage, it was about procreation.   Nowadays...  Things have changed, for the better I think.  People don't feel the need to marry to have kids.  If they're not happy together, they go their seperate ways.  If they're married, they divorce, that's the end of it.  No one is shunning divorcees.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Legbiter on October 31, 2013, 05:34:21 PM
Sure, mom sussed out that one chick I was seeing was crazy, and that the other was on her way to turning into a landwhale.

Marriage is a crapshoot for men in the West anyway. Lots of women go all Eat, Pray, Love twat on the husband. They're hardly husbands anymore, they're hostage negotiators.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: PDH on October 31, 2013, 05:39:46 PM
Quote from: Legbiter on October 31, 2013, 05:34:21 PM
Marriage is a crapshoot for men in the West anyway. Lots of women go all Eat, Pray, Love twat on the husband. They're hardly husbands anymore, they're hostage negotiators.

:rolleyes:  It's because they're women
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Ed Anger on October 31, 2013, 05:43:18 PM
Can't live with 'em.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: garbon on October 31, 2013, 05:43:46 PM
Oh god, how many members of the seduction community do we have?
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Legbiter on October 31, 2013, 05:50:01 PM
Quote from: PDH on October 31, 2013, 05:39:46 PM
Quote from: Legbiter on October 31, 2013, 05:34:21 PM
Marriage is a crapshoot for men in the West anyway. Lots of women go all Eat, Pray, Love twat on the husband. They're hardly husbands anymore, they're hostage negotiators.

:rolleyes:  It's because they're women

That's a bit harsh PDH. Women can be very feminine, sweet and pleasant to be around with. They're not all some infernal combination of landwhales, crazy, bitchy, entitled, crass & clueless.  :homestar:

Go to Quebec, for instance. Women there have even been known to smile at a man in genuine affection.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 31, 2013, 06:53:20 PM
Parents have made quite the comeback. They had zero votes at the 10 vote point.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Valmy on October 31, 2013, 07:45:43 PM
Surely those two people claiming to actually be in arranged marriages are trolling.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 31, 2013, 07:50:02 PM
They're certainly not sharing like the poll directs them to.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Josquius on October 31, 2013, 07:55:21 PM
Quote from: Legbiter on October 31, 2013, 05:50:01 PM
Quote from: PDH on October 31, 2013, 05:39:46 PM
Quote from: Legbiter on October 31, 2013, 05:34:21 PM
Marriage is a crapshoot for men in the West anyway. Lots of women go all Eat, Pray, Love twat on the husband. They're hardly husbands anymore, they're hostage negotiators.

:rolleyes:  It's because they're women

That's a bit harsh PDH. Women can be very feminine, sweet and pleasant to be around with. They're not all some infernal combination of landwhales, crazy, bitchy, entitled, crass & clueless.  :homestar:

Go to Quebec, for instance. Women there have even been known to smile at a man in genuine affection.
Lies. They're just thinking about his wallet.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 31, 2013, 08:04:15 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 31, 2013, 07:45:43 PM
Surely those two people claiming to actually be in arranged marriages are trolling.
Don't we have people of Indian descent on this board?
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 31, 2013, 08:13:51 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 31, 2013, 08:04:15 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 31, 2013, 07:45:43 PM
Surely those two people claiming to actually be in arranged marriages are trolling.
Don't we have people of Indian descent on this board?

Don't think Blade! ever came here.

Lots of white dudes married to Asians though.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: MadImmortalMan on October 31, 2013, 08:28:55 PM
Mom would have picked a fat dependent christian fundamentalist who wanted one kid for every time we have sex. So no.

:lol:
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 31, 2013, 09:04:15 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 31, 2013, 08:28:55 PM
Mom would have picked a fat dependent christian fundamentalist who wanted one kid for every time we have sex. So no.

:lol:
She couldn't get the other traits without the fat?

Valmy, how about Siege as one of those two?
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Scipio on November 01, 2013, 01:35:33 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 30, 2013, 09:23:54 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 30, 2013, 01:12:27 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 30, 2013, 01:09:32 AM
Oh, hell no.  Mom would've picked someone just like Mom.  Fuck that noise.
Aren't you a big Momma's boy though? :yeahright:

Why would I be a "big Momma's boy"?
Black Irish, lots of cats, BDSM history, lives in fucking Baltimore, goes to Towson. Former cop. I.E., momma's boy.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Scipio on November 01, 2013, 01:37:05 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 30, 2013, 01:04:10 PM
All the guys I know who had arranged marriages (within the Sihk community) are all still happily married (although admittedly the sample size is small).  Over half the guys I know who married for love are now divorced - some of them multiple times.

Given divorce rates in Western countries where most people make their own choice and marry for love it seems that if live long marriage is the measure of success then arranged marriages have merit.

Having said all that, there is no way in hell I would have trust my parent's judgment.
My wife and I married because she told me to, and that's just how it fucking is.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: DontSayBanana on November 01, 2013, 02:44:41 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 30, 2013, 12:53:40 PM
$10 an hour?  Hilarious.   :unsure:

Yuk it up, but this "bohemian" hasn't even hit $10 an hour yet. <_<
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 01, 2013, 09:54:35 AM
Quote from: Scipio on November 01, 2013, 01:35:33 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 30, 2013, 09:23:54 AM
Why would I be a "big Momma's boy"?

Black Irish, lots of cats, BDSM history, lives in fucking Baltimore, goes to Towson. Former cop. I.E., momma's boy.

Ah yes, straight out of the Central Casting guidelines.
Title: Re: Would you have trusted your parents to make an arranged marriage for you?
Post by: Malthus on November 01, 2013, 01:14:51 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on November 01, 2013, 02:44:41 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 30, 2013, 12:53:40 PM
$10 an hour?  Hilarious.   :unsure:

Yuk it up, but this "bohemian" hasn't even hit $10 an hour yet. <_<

I wasn't the one laughing.  :mellow:

To be clear, I never said $10 per hour was crappy pay. It wasn't. It was pretty good pay, for that occupation at that time.

What I was complaining about was the "pay" I got when I left that job to start my own business.   ;)