EDIT: Added the OTHER mass shooting yesterday; this one in Brooklyn.
EDIT #2: Two more shootings this weekend: Texas and Ohio. Body count continues to rise. Changed the subject to megathread.
Yet another domestic terrorist (re: "mentally ill" white guy) shoots up a crowd of people. News at 11.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49147369 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49147369)
QuoteThree people have been killed and 15 injured after a gunman attacked a food festival in California.
The gunman was shot dead by police shortly after he began firing, although police are investigating reports that a second suspect may still be at large.
The Gilroy Garlic Festival was about to end for the weekend on Sunday evening, when shots were fired at the site.
Six-year-old Stephen Romero is the first of the dead to be identified. His mother and grandmother were wounded.
His father, Alberto Romero, told Mercury News that he was at home with his nine-year-old daughter when he got the panicked call from his wife.
They had been playing in an inflatable bounce house at the time of the attack, she told him, when the boy was shot in the back.
"I couldn't believe what was happening, that what she was saying was a lie, that maybe I was dreaming," said Mr Romero.
"He was joyful, always wanted to play, always positive," he said, adding that the boy's mother has been placed in a medically induced coma after being shot in the stomach and her mother was being treated for a gunshot wound in the leg.
It was the 246th mass shooting in the US this year, according to US tracking website Gun Violence Archive.
The killer has been identified as 19-year-old Santino William Legan, according to CBS News. Witnesses said he was wearing camouflage, and used a rifle during the attack.
1 killed and 11 injured in shooting at community festival in Brooklyn
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/07/28/brooklyn-shooting-brownsville-park-neighborhood-event-ends-gunfire/1850795001/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/07/28/brooklyn-shooting-brownsville-park-neighborhood-event-ends-gunfire/1850795001/)
QuoteNEW YORK – A popular community festival was coming to a close when gunfire erupted in a Brooklyn neighborhood, leaving one man dead, another person in critical condition and 10 others wounded, authorities said Sunday as they searched for two shooters they believe were involved.
New York Police Commissioner James O'Neill said the shooting late Saturday in the borough's Brownsville section "was a tragic end to a wonderful weekend" that involved thousands of people gathering to take part in the annual Old Timers Event, which featured musical performances from former residents and current local talent.
The crowd at the celebration was dispersing when gunshots rang out from a playground area in the park where it was taking place, officials said.
Twelve people were hit –– seven men and five women between the ages of 21 and 55. A 38-year-old man died from a bullet wound to the head. His name was not immediately released.
Six of the wounded had been released from the hospital by midday Sunday, O'Neill said.
Nowhere in the article does it say he was mentally ill :hmm:
Anyway what else is new? I am glad the police took him out before more innocent people could be hurt.
Quote"What's going on?" a woman can be heard asking in one video, "who'd shoot up a garlic festival?"
A vampire sympathizer, perhaps? Not even joking - some people have committed murders under the delusion they were vampires.
Though more likely, the purpose of the venue wasn't important, it was just a large gathering of people to shoot at.
Thoughts and prayers. Let's not politicize this tragedy to push extreme and unconstitutional agendas. :P
:(
Quote from: Malthus on July 29, 2019, 12:28:01 PM
Though more likely, the purpose of the venue wasn't important, it was just a large gathering of people to shoot at.
Yep. It is not like the other mass shootings typically have some kind of justification about them, even irrational ones.
Quote from: Malthus on July 29, 2019, 12:28:01 PM
Quote"What's going on?" a woman can be heard asking in one video, "who'd shoot up a garlic festival?"
A vampire sympathizer, perhaps? Not even joking - some people have committed murders under the delusion they were vampires.
Richard Chase comes to mind.
Quote from: Valmy on July 29, 2019, 12:23:04 PM
Nowhere in the article does it say he was mentally ill :hmm:
Anyway what else is new? I am glad the police took him out before more innocent people could be hurt.
There are dozens of articles out there, and at least one already has people "opining" that the shooter was mentally ill.
Quote from: merithyn on July 29, 2019, 12:34:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 29, 2019, 12:23:04 PM
Nowhere in the article does it say he was mentally ill :hmm:
Anyway what else is new? I am glad the police took him out before more innocent people could be hurt.
There are dozens of articles out there, and at least one already has people "opining" that the shooter was mentally ill.
Is there any evidence for that? I would hate to stigmatize this as some kind of mental illness. Plenty of people get radicalized and angry without that.
But I guess if it was, that might point to us finally taking mental issues more seriously. I am not holding my breath though.
Seems a fairly safe bet. There's no rational motive for such a thing.
Quote from: Valmy on July 29, 2019, 12:37:52 PM
Is there any evidence for that? I would hate to stigmatize this as some kind of mental illness. Plenty of people get radicalized and angry without that.
But I guess if it was, that might point to us finally taking mental issues more seriously. I am not holding my breath though.
Of course there isn't any evidence that he was mentally ill. But you see, Valmy, it's a white man, so clearly the issue is that he was mentally ill. Only white male shooters are immediately deemed mentally ill, because it can't possibly be that white men can be radicalized and angry.
I was being sarcastic.
Great. Now when people see me shuffling around and mumbling to myself at the Chinese restaurant they are going to think I've been radicalized. <_< These fuckwits really need to stop shooting up schools and shit. Or at least stop blaming people like me for the shootings.
Quote from: merithyn on July 29, 2019, 12:44:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 29, 2019, 12:37:52 PM
Is there any evidence for that? I would hate to stigmatize this as some kind of mental illness. Plenty of people get radicalized and angry without that.
But I guess if it was, that might point to us finally taking mental issues more seriously. I am not holding my breath though.
Of course there isn't any evidence that he was mentally ill. But you see, Valmy, it's a white man, so clearly the issue is that he was mentally ill. Only white male shooters are immediately deemed mentally ill, because it can't possibly be that white men can be radicalized and angry.
I was being sarcastic.
Gotcha.
I thought being angry was something my melanin-deficient brothers were famous for. Making us angrier is big business.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 29, 2019, 12:48:45 PM
Great. Now when people see me shuffling around and mumbling to myself at the Chinese restaurant they are going to think I've been radicalized. <_< These fuckwits really need to stop shooting up schools and shit. Or at least stop blaming people like me for the shootings.
Yes, Raz. They do. For all those reasons and more. :hug:
People willing to die so they can pointlessly take out random strangers are nuts, whether they have a "Cause" or not.
I assumed Meri was referring to the ritual where any white guy shooter is asserted to be suffering from some unspecified "mental illness" as an excuse for doing nothing about gun control. Gun nuttery not being a recognized diagnosis yet.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 29, 2019, 01:01:29 PM
I assumed Meri was referring to the ritual where any white guy shooter is asserted to be suffering from some unspecified "mental illness" as an excuse for doing nothing about gun control. Gun nuttery not being a recognized diagnosis yet.
^^This^^
Gilroy is about 30 miles from Santa Cruz, over the coastal mountains. Smaller farming (now San Jose bedroom) community, the thing I most associate with Gilroy is the smell of garlic and onions, and the roadside cherry stands to the south of the town.
One of my student workers was at the Festival yesterday, I got an email at 1am today that he might be late coming in...the crazy is being normalized...
Step 2 in the ritual is that all calls for gun legislation are fobbed off by claims that we need to improve our detection and treatment of mental illness.
Step 3 is that absolutely nothing is done about detecting and treating of mental illness. The exception is if Republicans control Congress, in which case public funds for mental health treatment are cut in the next budget cycle.
Nowadays, all I hope for is that my country stays sensible towards guns ownership.
A impressionable youth sent off-balance by the Trumpian hate agenda?
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 29, 2019, 01:59:23 PM
Step 2 in the ritual is that all calls for gun legislation are fobbed off by claims that we need to improve our detection and treatment of mental illness.
Step 3 is that absolutely nothing is done about detecting and treating of mental illness. The exception is if Republicans control Congress, in which case public funds for mental health treatment are cut in the next budget cycle.
Then comes step 4, when a brown person sneezes in a bank and sends the entire country into melt down screaming for tighter immigration controls.
Quote from: Tyr on July 29, 2019, 06:01:27 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 29, 2019, 01:59:23 PM
Step 2 in the ritual is that all calls for gun legislation are fobbed off by claims that we need to improve our detection and treatment of mental illness.
Step 3 is that absolutely nothing is done about detecting and treating of mental illness. The exception is if Republicans control Congress, in which case public funds for mental health treatment are cut in the next budget cycle.
Then comes step 4, when a brown person sneezes in a bank and sends the entire country into melt down screaming for tighter immigration controls.
It's like you know us or something.
Ha like facts or actual events are needed for immigrant bashers to bash immigrants. Who can forget the tragic and bloody massacre of Bowling Green?
Quote from: Tyr on July 29, 2019, 06:01:27 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 29, 2019, 01:59:23 PM
Step 2 in the ritual is that all calls for gun legislation are fobbed off by claims that we need to improve our detection and treatment of mental illness.
Step 3 is that absolutely nothing is done about detecting and treating of mental illness. The exception is if Republicans control Congress, in which case public funds for mental health treatment are cut in the next budget cycle.
Then comes step 4, when a brown person sneezes in a bank and sends the entire country into melt down screaming for tighter immigration controls.
That part of the country constantly screams for that.
Did the President bother with the thoughts and prayers preliminary to step 1 or no need to bother with the preliminaries any more?
I haven't seen him even acknowledge that it happened.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 30, 2019, 10:24:56 AM
Did the President bother with the thoughts and prayers preliminary to step 1 or no need to bother with the preliminaries any more?
He called the shooter a monster I think. He said something about it.
Anyway Trump is not really a thoughts and prayers kind of dude, if you hadn't noticed.
I think a tweet was entered into the Presidential record, yes.
Quote from: Syt on July 30, 2019, 10:53:07 AM
I think a tweet was entered into the Presidential record, yes.
I am so glad I will not be one of the historians who will have to analyze all these tweets.
FWIW my sisters don't mention it on Facebook, but shared the memorial post of a far right site for an 8 year old kid that was pushed in front of a train by an Eritrean in Frankfurt.
I'm just going to point out some serious media bias here. That shooting in Brooklyn? I had to do a search to find any information on it. The shooting in California? It's everywhere.
Major differences between the shootings:
California
- Three dead, all of whom were very young (eldest was 23)
- 12 injured
- Random/terrorist shooting
- All victims were white
Brooklyn
- One death, 38 year old man
- 11 injured
- No known motive, but police suspect gang violence
- All victims were black
NYPD Chief of Detectives Dermot Shea: "Again, you're talking 12 separate individuals that sustained gunshot wounds. Several of them had gang histories, whether or not that played any role in the shooting or the motive is still undetermined."
There was one in Mississippi too.
That one just happened, yes? The one in the Walmart?
Fired employee*, it sounds like.
*Meri's greatest fear in the workplace. :ph34r:
Yeah that one.
It's a, pretty irrational, fear, considering, of mine too.
The New York shooting was slightly different in that the shooter(s) escaped. But...I don't know. Organized crime doesn't usually shoot up crowds of randos.
Quote from: Valmy on July 30, 2019, 11:22:27 AM
The New York shooting was slightly different in that the shooter(s) escaped. But...I don't know. Organized crime doesn't usually shoot up crowds of randos.
Don't be silly, Valmy. These are Black People(tm). Clearly, it's gang-related.
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 30, 2019, 11:20:51 AM
Yeah that one.
It's a, pretty irrational, fear, considering, of mine too.
I work for health insurance in the US. It is absolutely not irrational for me. I'm waiting for the first mass shooting at a health insurance company to happen.
You kinda undercut your claim that it's a rational fear when you note it's never happened before. :contract:
The animosity toward health insurance companies is relatively new. It'll happen.
Quote from: merithyn on July 30, 2019, 11:18:25 AM
That one just happened, yes? The one in the Walmart?
Fired employee*, it sounds like.
*Meri's greatest fear in the workplace. :ph34r:
I had an HR elective course in university (worked out timing wise, wasn't my first choice). I just remember one of the section on termination the recommended Friday afternoons. they didn't go straight out and say it, but it was heavily implied that this was so no one came back and shot up the place. Book was published in the US if that changes anything.
The years that I taught this was always something on the back of my mind - I didn't have to fire anyone, but I did give out grades...arguments with the person who got a 78 and wanted an A were in some ways worse than the person who managed a 25 for the course...
Quote from: merithyn on July 30, 2019, 11:12:35 AM
I'm just going to point out some serious media bias here. That shooting in Brooklyn? I had to do a search to find any information on it. The shooting in California? It's everywhere.
Major differences between the shootings:
California
- Three dead, all of whom were very young (eldest was 23)
- 12 injured
- Random/terrorist shooting
- All victims were white
Brooklyn
- One death, 38 year old man
- 11 injured
- No known motive, but police suspect gang violence
- All victims were black
NYPD Chief of Detectives Dermot Shea: "Again, you're talking 12 separate individuals that sustained gunshot wounds. Several of them had gang histories, whether or not that played any role in the shooting or the motive is still undetermined."
Well Brownsville is known as a not particularly safe area
https://time.com/3785609/brownsville-brooklyn/
Quote from: PDH on July 30, 2019, 02:16:28 PM
The years that I taught this was always something on the back of my mind - I didn't have to fire anyone, but I did give out grades...arguments with the person who got a 78 and wanted an A were in some ways worse than the person who managed a 25 for the course...
My dad was visiting the University of Iowa when a disgruntled Chinese physics student, angry his essay didn't win a prize, shot a bunch of people there; he was in the same building where a bunch of victims were shot (he wasn't involved and in fact didn't know anything was amiss until the cops arrived).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Iowa_shooting
Quote from: Malthus on July 30, 2019, 03:06:17 PM
Quote from: PDH on July 30, 2019, 02:16:28 PM
The years that I taught this was always something on the back of my mind - I didn't have to fire anyone, but I did give out grades...arguments with the person who got a 78 and wanted an A were in some ways worse than the person who managed a 25 for the course...
My dad was visiting the University of Iowa when a disgruntled Chinese physics student, angry his essay didn't win a prize, shot a bunch of people there; he was in the same building where a bunch of victims were shot (he wasn't involved and in fact didn't know anything was amiss until the cops arrived).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Iowa_shooting
Yeah. I was across the street from Van Allen getting a bagel before my first class the next day. I knew Anne's staff rather well, as they worked in a different building from where Anne was shot on the floor below my office. Miya was fairly well known after the shooting as she was regularly seen around campus.
It's when my "irrational" fear started.
It's such an alien fear. Terrorism aside, the last (only really) killing-spree I can recall was Puerto Hurraco, and that was almost 30 years ago.
Quote from: merithyn on July 30, 2019, 04:58:33 PM
It's when my "irrational" fear started.
Ok now hold on. GF was saying his fear was irrational because he lives in Canada. That is what he meant by "considering". He was not calling your fear irrational.
Quote from: Malthus on July 30, 2019, 03:06:17 PM
Quote from: PDH on July 30, 2019, 02:16:28 PM
The years that I taught this was always something on the back of my mind - I didn't have to fire anyone, but I did give out grades...arguments with the person who got a 78 and wanted an A were in some ways worse than the person who managed a 25 for the course...
My dad was visiting the University of Iowa when a disgruntled Chinese physics student, angry his essay didn't win a prize, shot a bunch of people there; he was in the same building where a bunch of victims were shot (he wasn't involved and in fact didn't know anything was amiss until the cops arrived).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Iowa_shooting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Iowa_shooting)
Was your the father the one who had a co-worker get a sex change and not notice it?
Quote from: Razgovory on July 30, 2019, 06:36:43 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 30, 2019, 03:06:17 PM
Quote from: PDH on July 30, 2019, 02:16:28 PM
The years that I taught this was always something on the back of my mind - I didn't have to fire anyone, but I did give out grades...arguments with the person who got a 78 and wanted an A were in some ways worse than the person who managed a 25 for the course...
My dad was visiting the University of Iowa when a disgruntled Chinese physics student, angry his essay didn't win a prize, shot a bunch of people there; he was in the same building where a bunch of victims were shot (he wasn't involved and in fact didn't know anything was amiss until the cops arrived).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Iowa_shooting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Iowa_shooting)
Was your the father the one who had a co-worker get a sex change and not notice it?
Damn Raz, you've got a good memory, I vaguely recall that story now you mention it.
That was Malthus's story - his dad was so embarrassed he later bought 10,000 dollar strollers for everyone.
Quote from: PDH on July 30, 2019, 07:30:28 PM
That was Malthus's story - his dad was so embarrassed he later bought 10,000 dollar strollers for everyone.
:D
Quote from: Razgovory on July 30, 2019, 06:36:43 PM
Was your the father the one who had a co-worker get a sex change and not notice it?
Yup.
It's both impressive and mildly worrying that some people remember random gossip I passed on years ago. :lol:
In this particular case, his lack of notice of gunshots wasn't as humorous - he was simply far away on another floor and didn't hear anything.
Quote from: Valmy on July 30, 2019, 06:28:43 PM
Quote from: merithyn on July 30, 2019, 04:58:33 PM
It's when my "irrational" fear started.
Ok now hold on. GF was saying his fear was irrational because he lives in Canada. That is what he meant by "considering". He was not calling your fear irrational.
We do have mass shootings here as well - just more rarely.
For example, a guy murdered fourteen women in Montreal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_Polytechnique_massacre
There is this difference though: that shooting happened thirty years ago, and is still regularly referenced. Partly because the shooter expressly claimed he was killing women to 'fight feminism', but also because large scale mass shootings aren't very common: it hasn't been surpassed in violence since.
Quote from: Valmy on July 30, 2019, 06:28:43 PM
Quote from: merithyn on July 30, 2019, 04:58:33 PM
It's when my "irrational" fear started.
Ok now hold on. GF was saying his fear was irrational because he lives in Canada. That is what he meant by "considering". He was not calling your fear irrational.
The chances of my being shot in the workplace - while higher than average because of my industry - is still pretty damn low. It is, by that standard, irrational. I recognize that.
However, because I was in close proximity to that particular college campus shooting and because of the industry I'm in, it's still a very real fear. The first thing that I do at any new job/desk is look to see where I could/should hide in the event of a shooting incident. I have a plan right now for getting out of my current building as quickly and quietly as possible. I know where my cellphone is at all times to call 911 "just in case". That's all a bit irrational, and I recognize that.
But when that kind of thing happens when you're young, and it continues to happen throughout your entire adult life, it's hard to discount the fear.
Quote from: merithyn on July 31, 2019, 11:34:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 30, 2019, 06:28:43 PM
Quote from: merithyn on July 30, 2019, 04:58:33 PM
It's when my "irrational" fear started.
Ok now hold on. GF was saying his fear was irrational because he lives in Canada. That is what he meant by "considering". He was not calling your fear irrational.
The chances of my being shot in the workplace - while higher than average because of my industry - is still pretty damn low. It is, by that standard, irrational. I recognize that.
However, because I was in close proximity to that particular college campus shooting and because of the industry I'm in, it's still a very real fear. The first thing that I do at any new job/desk is look to see where I could/should hide in the event of a shooting incident. I have a plan right now for getting out of my current building as quickly and quietly as possible. I know where my cellphone is at all times to call 911 "just in case". That's all a bit irrational, and I recognize that.
But when that kind of thing happens when you're young, and it continues to happen throughout your entire adult life, it's hard to discount the fear.
I think you may be misunderstanding what both GF and Valmy are saying to you. ie in your context your fear is not irrational but in another context, GF's fear, to the extent it exists, is :)
I read today something along the lines of, "18 years ago someone tried to light his shoe and today we still take off our shoes at airport security. Meanwhile there's hundreds of mass shooting every year and nothing happens."
Quote from: Malthus on July 31, 2019, 09:42:37 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 30, 2019, 06:28:43 PM
Quote from: merithyn on July 30, 2019, 04:58:33 PM
It's when my "irrational" fear started.
Ok now hold on. GF was saying his fear was irrational because he lives in Canada. That is what he meant by "considering". He was not calling your fear irrational.
We do have mass shootings here as well - just more rarely.
For example, a guy murdered fourteen women in Montreal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_Polytechnique_massacre
There is this difference though: that shooting happened thirty years ago, and is still regularly referenced. Partly because the shooter expressly claimed he was killing women to 'fight feminism', but also because large scale mass shootings aren't very common: it hasn't been surpassed in violence since.
one mentally hill dude kills 14 women and suddenly, all men with guns are women killers in waiting.
the only thing worst of that time period was the semi-successful crusade against violent animes. They've been mostly banned from the air in Quebec. Let your kid watch a transformer cartoon and he'll grow up to be the next Lepine.
The only thing worse than a semi-successful crusade against anime is a failed crusade against anime.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-08-03/what-we-know-about-patrick-crusius-el-paso-rampage
Quote[...]
Although authorities did not publicly confirm his identity or describe the precise contents of the manifesto, a document posted on the website 8chan about an hour-and-a-half before the rampage spoke about the "invasion" of Latino immigrants and said the writer agreed with the shooter who killed worshipers at a mosque in Christchurch, New Zealand. That document was posted by an anonymous user who posted another document under the file name "P._Crusius." That file was taken down, and it is not clear what it contained.
A Twitter account that appeared to belong to Crusius was shut down Saturday evening. Tweets on the account had praised President Trump and, in particular, his effort to build a wall along the U.S- Mexico border.
[...]
Also, have law agencies been militarized enough yet?
(https://i0.web.de/image/276/33903276,pd=2,f=lead-xxl.jpg)
Why not one more, eh? Shooting in Dayton, OH. At least 9 killed.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-investigate-active-shooter-incident-dayton-ohio-n1039046
Quote from: Syt on August 04, 2019, 01:01:44 AM
Also, have law agencies been militarized enough yet?
(https://i0.web.de/image/276/33903276,pd=2,f=lead-xxl.jpg)
Depends
On?
I don't think it is a problem that the FBI has dudes ready to be equipped with tactical gear for certain cases. Obviously they're not rolling around in that gear except in cases like the shooting in El Paso.
That doesn't mean they should look nearly identical (they're using the same camo, and from other pics I've seen, they pretty much use the same set up of patches/insignia, etc) to the military, such that only a trained eye can easily distinguish them.
What's the point of camouflaging the armoured car? Scared of aerial attacks?
Quote from: Syt on August 04, 2019, 06:15:00 AM
On?
If your meaning SWAT,SRT, HRT that is pictured or regular patrol officers. Your pic is not of regular patrol officers.
Quote from: Threviel on August 04, 2019, 09:41:26 AM
What's the point of camouflaging the armoured car? Scared of aerial attacks?
Where in that picture is a camouflaged armoured car? It's so well-camouflaged as to appear to be invisible (unless it's camouflaged as a fire truck).
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 04, 2019, 08:49:16 AM
That doesn't mean they should look nearly identical (they're using the same camo, and from other pics I've seen, they pretty much use the same set up of patches/insignia, etc) to the military, such that only a trained eye can easily distinguish them.
Certainly there are cost advantages to not repainting vehicles and just using military uniforms and gear, but there are also certainly perception-related disadvantages.
Quote from: grumbler on August 04, 2019, 10:29:31 AM
Quote from: Threviel on August 04, 2019, 09:41:26 AM
What's the point of camouflaging the armoured car? Scared of aerial attacks?
Where in that picture is a camouflaged armoured car? It's so well-camouflaged as to appear to be invisible (unless it's camouflaged as a fire truck).
It's olive, that does not normally imply police vehicle.
It says FBI so clearly not a police vehicle nor intended to be.
Not sure what an FBI vehicle is supposed to look like. Black, I guess?
Quote from: schaksen on August 04, 2019, 10:34:48 AM
Quote from: grumbler on August 04, 2019, 10:29:31 AM
Quote from: Threviel on August 04, 2019, 09:41:26 AM
What's the point of camouflaging the armoured car? Scared of aerial attacks?
Where in that picture is a camouflaged armoured car? It's so well-camouflaged as to appear to be invisible (unless it's camouflaged as a fire truck).
It's olive, that does not normally imply police vehicle.
That's not a normal police vehicle, so I don't know why you assume that "normally" applies to it.
Olive drab isn't camouflage and the Bearcat isn't an "armoured car."
Here's the same vehicle in Ottawa PD colors:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Lenco_BearCat_Ottawa_Police-2.jpg/1200px-Lenco_BearCat_Ottawa_Police-2.jpg)
Here's an Ottawa PD police car:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ottawacitizen.com%2Flife%2Fcms%2Fbinary%2F7108465.jpg%3Fsize%3D140x95&hash=b78a3c2f81d57540b3786551371c477ed5718aad)
Do they look the same color to you?
Honestly, the least dubious thing in that picture is the color of the modern Bearcats.
Quote from: grumbler on August 04, 2019, 10:29:31 AM
Quote from: Threviel on August 04, 2019, 09:41:26 AM
What's the point of camouflaging the armoured car? Scared of aerial attacks?
Where in that picture is a camouflaged armoured car? It's so well-camouflaged as to appear to be invisible (unless it's camouflaged as a fire truck).
Pardon my uninformed rambling. What is the point of camouflaging police? And what is the point of having olive coloured militarisch vehicles? To me it looks like a bunch of half-wits playing army, and that is most definitely not what I want police forces to do.
I get SWAT, there is a point of heavily armed police, but SWAT don't normally look like they are playing army.
Quote from: Threviel on August 04, 2019, 11:05:11 AM
Quote from: grumbler on August 04, 2019, 10:29:31 AM
Quote from: Threviel on August 04, 2019, 09:41:26 AM
What's the point of camouflaging the armoured car? Scared of aerial attacks?
Where in that picture is a camouflaged armoured car? It's so well-camouflaged as to appear to be invisible (unless it's camouflaged as a fire truck).
Pardon my uninformed rambling. What is the point of camouflaging police? And what is the point of having olive coloured militarisch vehicles? To me it looks like a bunch of half-wits playing army, and that is most definitely not what I want police forces to do.
I get SWAT, there is a point of heavily armed police, but SWAT don't normally look like they are playing army.
There isn't really a point.
To be fair, a fair amount of SWAT teams had tactical gear before, but were content to have it painted solid/blue black. But there appears to be a trend, probably since 9/11 or shortly after (or more after the Iraq war, really) for police to just use the stock military gear. I'm sure it is a fair amount of dudes "playing army", as well as a large amount of dudes who are ex-military (Iraq again is a perfect example...a large share of US cops are vets, so they're used to this gear) and have kept that mentality into police work. That pick of the FBI dudes? Take off the FBI logos and that could be 99% identical to a pic of US special forces in Afghanistan.
This is why there is concern about militarizing police. You get a lot of ex-Iraqi occupation vets who are now in/run police forces, likely going back to old habits. It's not good for a police force to have an occupation mentality when dealing with their fellow citizens, after all.
As for the vehicles...likely free military surplus.
So, other than Benedict Arnold's post, nothing in the latest shooting? Just whether the police are too militarized?
Welcome to America, where radicalized white men shooting a couple dozen people is so mainstream as to be ignored anymore.
Not blaming you guys. Just sad at that reality.
Reading up on it apparently I'm the half-wit and that crap is what heavily armed police looks like.
Quote from: merithyn on August 04, 2019, 11:22:16 AM
So, other than Benedict Arnold's post, nothing in the latest shooting? Just whether the police are too militarized?
Welcome to America, where radicalized white men shooting a couple dozen people is so mainstream as to be ignored anymore.
Not blaming you guys. Just sad at that reality.
Sadly, these events seem to barely raise eyebrows anymore. They're on the news one day, gone the next. I feel people may have become dangerously numb since the school shootings.
Sadly, the NRA nuts have simply won the narrative. They may not be numerically in the majority, but their marginal political impact is certainly high. Nothing will get done until something happens that wakes up the conscience and empathy of the gun nuts.
If Las Vegas and/or Sandy Hook didn't move the needle, neither will these.
Quote from: DGuller on August 04, 2019, 11:36:32 AM
Sadly, the NRA nuts have simply won the narrative. They may not be numerically in the majority, but their marginal political impact is certainly high. Nothing will get done until something happens that wakes up the conscience and empathy of the gun nuts.
According to the Texas Lieutenant Governor, we just need to put prayer back in schools. That'll fix it.
Quote from: merithyn on August 04, 2019, 11:49:30 AM
Quote from: DGuller on August 04, 2019, 11:36:32 AM
Sadly, the NRA nuts have simply won the narrative. They may not be numerically in the majority, but their marginal political impact is certainly high. Nothing will get done until something happens that wakes up the conscience and empathy of the gun nuts.
According to the Texas Lieutenant Governor, we just need to put prayer back in schools. That'll fix it.
Well it's halfway there.
Quote from: merithyn on August 04, 2019, 11:49:30 AM
Quote from: DGuller on August 04, 2019, 11:36:32 AM
Sadly, the NRA nuts have simply won the narrative. They may not be numerically in the majority, but their marginal political impact is certainly high. Nothing will get done until something happens that wakes up the conscience and empathy of the gun nuts.
According to the Texas Lieutenant Governor, we just need to put prayer back in schools. That'll fix it.
There is probably a psychological aspect there beyond just the typical idiocy at work. It's a lot easier to ignore the connection between gun fetish and exploded skulls of innocent people if you can project the blame onto someone else.
I changed the subject. Not worth trying to keep up anymore.
Quote from: merithyn on August 04, 2019, 11:49:30 AM
According to the Texas Lieutenant Governor, we just need to put prayer back in schools. That'll fix it.
Don't forget the Lieutenant Governor of Texas and the piece of shit "journalist" Andy Ngo pushing the "Antifa is deep down the real cause of the shooting in El Paso and they should stay out of Texas" narrative.
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on August 04, 2019, 03:29:41 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 04, 2019, 11:49:30 AM
According to the Texas Lieutenant Governor, we just need to put prayer back in schools. That'll fix it.
Don't forget the Lieutenant Governor of Texas and the piece of shit "journalist" Andy Ngo pushing the "Antifa is deep down the real cause of the shooting in El Paso and they should stay out of Texas" narrative.
Actually I'm told it's video games that are really to blame.
Antifa are scum and should stay out of Texas - or just about anywhere for that matter. I'm glad they - or their extreme right equivalent - don't noticeably operate in my city. :)
Is there a link to a story where Andy Ngo blames them for the shooting?
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on August 04, 2019, 03:29:41 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 04, 2019, 11:49:30 AM
According to the Texas Lieutenant Governor, we just need to put prayer back in schools. That'll fix it.
Don't forget the Lieutenant Governor of Texas and the piece of shit "journalist" Andy Ngo pushing the "Antifa is deep down the real cause of the shooting in El Paso and they should stay out of Texas" narrative.
Ah, the blame game.
Quote from: Camerus on August 04, 2019, 06:14:37 PM
Antifa are scum and should stay out of Texas - or just about anywhere for that matter. I'm glad they - or their extreme right equivalent - don't noticeably operate in my city. :)
Is there a link to a story where Andy Ngo blames them for the shooting?
I think the Right-wing equivalent would be 3%ers. Like Antifa, I don't think they've ever killed anyone in the US. I'm not certain of that, there could be 3 Percenter linked murders. They probably do operate in your city.
It is very important we shout the word "antifa" as loud as possible. We need to create some sort of connection, no matter how fictional, so people won't think about the fact that a person just killed 20 people because he acted on what are typical Republican talking points.
Dayton police killed the shooter 30 seconds after he fired his first shot. He still managed to kill 9 people and injure over a dozen.
Jesus. That's insane.
Well armed citizens should randomly shoot in crowds to prevent mass shootings by bad guys.
Quote from: merithyn on August 04, 2019, 11:22:16 AM
So, other than Benedict Arnold's post, nothing in the latest shooting? Just whether the police are too militarized?
Welcome to America, where radicalized white men shooting a couple dozen people is so mainstream as to be ignored anymore.
Not blaming you guys. Just sad at that reality.
I mean after awhile what is the point of discussing them? Nothing happens or changes.
Quote from: merithyn on August 04, 2019, 10:21:37 PM
Dayton police killed the shooter 30 seconds after he fired his first shot. He still managed to kill 9 people and injure over a dozen.
Jesus. That's insane.
Thirty seconds is a lot of time for a shooter. Even an untrained one. While the police response was exceptionally fast this time... It is generally not the norm
Next up in crazytown....
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/politics/candice-keller-ohio-lawmaker-mass-shootings/index.html
Quote from: 11B4V on August 05, 2019, 07:43:39 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 04, 2019, 10:21:37 PM
Dayton police killed the shooter 30 seconds after he fired his first shot. He still managed to kill 9 people and injure over a dozen.
Jesus. That's insane.
Thirty seconds is a lot of time for a shooter. Even an untrained one. While the police response was exceptionally fast this time... It is generally not the norm
But it will still be used as proof for the good guy with a gun fallacy 😔
My sister on Facebook asks why Democrats are going gun control crazy now. After all, there were shootings when Obama was in office and had a majority, but they didn't do anything, either. :unsure:
Quote from: Syt on August 06, 2019, 12:41:38 AM
My sister on Facebook asks why Democrats are going gun control crazy now. After all, there were shootings when Obama was in office and had a majority, but they didn't do anything, either. :unsure:
Reply back simply with
BBC News - Obama admits US gun laws are his 'biggest frustration'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33646704
Quote from: 11B4V on August 05, 2019, 09:07:46 PM
Next up in crazytown....
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/politics/candice-keller-ohio-lawmaker-mass-shootings/index.html
Finally, RuPaul gets the credit he deserves.
So, more guns don't seem to solve the problem. I guess the next logical step is to encourage wearing body armor and combat helmets in public?
Quote from: Syt on August 06, 2019, 12:41:38 AM
My sister on Facebook asks why Democrats are going gun control crazy now. After all, there were shootings when Obama was in office and had a majority, but they didn't do anything, either. :unsure:
This was brought up on ITV this morning (major British TV station), by the Daily Mail editor they pair up most mornings with a leftist tabloid editor to discuss news: why Obama speaks up now he had 8 years to fix this. WTF.
2 more mass shootings and the whole phenomenon will be squarely Obama's doing.
Quote from: Syt on August 06, 2019, 04:57:26 AM
So, more guns don't seem to solve the problem. I guess the next logical step is to encourage wearing body armor and combat helmets in public?
I think that's hyperbolic. We are still very far from the situation where we have enough guns to reduce firearm deaths. Let's first make sure that everyone openly carries an assault rifle before we conclude that more guns don't reduce firearm deaths.
Quote from: Tamas on August 06, 2019, 05:08:22 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 06, 2019, 12:41:38 AM
My sister on Facebook asks why Democrats are going gun control crazy now. After all, there were shootings when Obama was in office and had a majority, but they didn't do anything, either. :unsure:
This was brought up on ITV this morning (major British TV station), by the Daily Mail editor they pair up most mornings with a leftist tabloid editor to discuss news: why Obama speaks up now he had 8 years to fix this. WTF.
2 more mass shootings and the whole phenomenon will be squarely Obama's doing.
It's like people have the memory of goldfish. It makes it very easy to excoriate people no matter what they do.
Quote from: Syt on August 06, 2019, 12:41:38 AM
My sister on Facebook asks why Democrats are going gun control crazy now. After all, there were shootings when Obama was in office and had a majority, but they didn't do anything, either. :unsure:
You know I joke about Republicans having no understanding of the Constitution, but it's becoming less and less funny.
The President doesn't make the laws, unless he is Donald Trump and one of his handpicked judges looks the other way.
But ... but ... he had a majority in both houses at some point! :(
Quote from: Syt on August 06, 2019, 12:41:38 AM
My sister on Facebook asks why Democrats are going gun control crazy now. After all, there were shootings when Obama was in office and had a majority, but they didn't do anything, either. :unsure:
Which shootings took place during that time? It was almost a decade ago now.
Quote from: Syt on August 06, 2019, 08:44:05 AM
But ... but ... he had a majority in both houses at some point! :(
Yeah from 2009-2011. In any case now she is upset that Obama wasn't a totalitarian tyrant who came and took her guns?
Besides it was not a huge majority and it is not like all Democrats are in favor of gun control. But I guess this is what happens when propaganda convinces you all your opponents are identical drones with no differing opinions among them.
Well, she also recently posted an old interview with Obama where he spoke out against illegal immigration and in favor of protecting the borders. She was surprised and asked why Democrats are now against protecting the border and in favor of illegals. :wacko:
Quote from: 11B4V on August 05, 2019, 09:07:46 PM
Next up in crazytown....
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/politics/candice-keller-ohio-lawmaker-mass-shootings/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/politics/candice-keller-ohio-lawmaker-mass-shootings/index.html)
Think about it, were it not for Drag Queens Ivana Trump would be the first lady.
Quote from: Syt on August 06, 2019, 04:57:26 AM
So, more guns don't seem to solve the problem. I guess the next logical step is to encourage wearing body armor and combat helmets in public?
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/06/bullet-resistant-backpacks-have-become-another-back-to-school-staple.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-07/ap-newsalert-usa-today-says-its-headquarters-in-virginia-has-been-evacuated-while-police-respond-to-reports-of-a-man-with-a?utm_medium=social&utm_content=business&utm_source=twitter&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic
QuoteUSA Today Headquarters Evacuated After Reports of a Man With Gun
Latest is that it was a mistaken report though, just like that one in Baton Rouge(?)
Is this Mc Carthy statement true as in he really said it? I mean it's more than possible but I would like a confirmation.
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67705451_10156178587612032_8078511047696187392_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQlYuoC5ZySQ3cJ3TYl_vXsWYDgdyYfF-BDB2_QbaGFPypJAolxuxOaZXgeSBCtJiOkyzHo9GAgLYBCfCjk0eJgd&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=cfbf091e088a5cdd37a1303d3650c451&oe=5DEEA98C)
Quote definitely looks to be fake. Some Googling returns nothing like it, aside from him blaming video games for shootings.
A quick Google shows it coming up in multiple places. Seems real. Not in a position to check videos right now though.
Kind of surprised the Japanese spend so little on video games. But then you work ridiculous hours over there right?
Quote from: Tyr on August 07, 2019, 02:30:58 PM
A quick Google shows it coming up in multiple places. Seems real. Not in a position to check videos right now though.
A fake quote can come up in multiple places. Doesn't mean it's real.
It's a fake, but not far off from reality - McCarthy (and other Republicans) are busy blaming violent video games for mass shootings, while others are pointing out that nations such as Japan have more video game usage per capita than the US, but less mass shootings.
The inventer of this fake quote just put the two ideas together and put it in the mouth of McCarthy.
https://splinternews.com/top-republicans-are-blaming-video-games-for-the-white-t-1836953770
On the merits there is obviously no empirical cross-country correlation between video game sales and mass shootings.
There does appear to be a emerging correlation between having a bunch of morons in high government positions and mass shootings. Not sure if there is causality here but better to be safe and get the morons out.
The US might need more hentai.
Japan doesn't have this: https://store.steampowered.com/app/866310/Putin_Run_Away_From_Trump/
Quote from: Valmy on August 07, 2019, 02:34:46 PM
Kind of surprised the Japanese spend so little on video games. But then you work ridiculous hours over there right?
They seem very in for a penny in for a pound when it comes to games (or indeed most things).
Not that many people who play a lot of games as part of a balanced life. It's either "I know what Mario is" or complete shut in obsessive.
No inbetween.
Plus of course its not the 90s anymore.
The Japanese games industry died many years ago.
Quote from: The Brain on August 07, 2019, 04:05:28 PM
The US might need more hentai.
For the sake of the argument, I will suggest hentai of a different kind than Urotsukidōji.
Quote from: Tyr on August 07, 2019, 04:09:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 07, 2019, 02:34:46 PM
Kind of surprised the Japanese spend so little on video games. But then you work ridiculous hours over there right?
They seem very in for a penny in for a pound when it comes to games (or indeed most things).
Not that many people who play a lot of games as part of a balanced life. It's either "I know what Mario is" or complete shut in obsessive.
No inbetween.
Plus of course its not the 90s anymore.
The Japanese games industry died many years ago.
You say the strangest things sometimes.
Which part is strange?
Quote from: Valmy on August 08, 2019, 10:08:47 AM
Which part is strange?
"The Japanese video game industry died years ago" Two of the three major consoles are from Japanese companies. I'd say they are pretty well represented. There isn't really a big Japanese footprint in the PC market, but there never has been.
NEC was a player was significant player in PCs for a while, into the 90s. IIRC they went for their own processor architecture rather than x86 which ultimately doomed them.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 08, 2019, 10:37:54 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 08, 2019, 10:08:47 AM
Which part is strange?
"The Japanese video game industry died years ago" Two of the three major consoles are from Japanese companies. I'd say they are pretty well represented. There isn't really a big Japanese footprint in the PC market, but there never has been.
Ah yeah. I did think that was a weird thing to say but I admit I am not really a Japanese game kind of player....at least not since the original NES.
Two of the three consoles remain Japanese.
But just think about the top games on these consoles. Think about the majority of games out there these days.
I'm saying nothing weird here. The massive decline of the Japanese games industry has been well observed for years. Even moreso than in the west, in Japan things have massively shifted to mobile games.
Top games on the Switch are, guess what, Japanese, be them first or second party. Thanks to Nintendo. :P
Sony though has more third parties while Sega is out of the console market since the Dreamcast.
But yes, the Japanese videogame industry is far from its heyday.
I don't really do mobile games, but they take up the lion's share of the market. I decided to look up who makes the top selling for PlayStation.
Uncharted 4 -Naughty Dog. American developer owned by Sony.
God Of War - SIE Santa Monica. American company owned by Sony
Horrison zero dawn. Guerrilla Games Dutch developer owned by Sony
Last of US. Naughty Dog. American developer owned by Sony
Marvel's Spider Man Insomianc games American developer owned by Sony.
Grand Turismo sport Polyphonal Digital Japense developer owned by Sony
Witcher 3- CDproject Red- Polish developer and publisher
Monster Hunter World Capcom Japanese developer and publisher
Persona 5 P-studio Japanese developer owned by Sega
Crash Bandikoot Vicarious Visions American developer owned by Activision
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PlayStation_4_video_games
I'd say the Japanese are doing pretty good.
3/10?
Looks good taken in isolation.
But when you consider that in generations past this would have been 8 or 9 out of 10 and the 3 they do have are merely the latest in long running franchises....
As I said I'm saying nothing radical here. This is all well discussed territory with it being the "no it isn't. Actually..." side that is the opposing viewpoint these days.
https://www.theverge.com/2014/3/20/5522320/final-fight-can-japans-gaming-industry-be-saved
Quote from: Tyr on August 08, 2019, 01:02:00 PM
3/10?
Looks good taken in isolation.
But when you consider that in generations past this would have been 8 or 9 out of 10 and the 3 they do have are merely the latest in long running franchises....
As I said I'm saying nothing radical here. This is all well discussed territory with it being the "no it isn't. Actually..." side that is the opposing viewpoint these days.
https://www.theverge.com/2014/3/20/5522320/final-fight-can-japans-gaming-industry-be-saved (https://www.theverge.com/2014/3/20/5522320/final-fight-can-japans-gaming-industry-be-saved)
This is 8 in ten. Eight of the developers are Japanese or owned by a Japanese company.
Trump giving comfort to survivors of the shootings and hospital staff.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBY8c5iU4AA_KYE?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBZNMbpVAAAHQqa?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBZNMbdVUAAGvmG?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBZNMbjUwAA1lgC?format=jpg&name=small)
I'm sure this little one will cherish this picture when he grows up, commemorating getting to meet the pres because his parents were killed.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBfwFOgUcAAlgGT?format=jpg&name=small)
Here's him bragging to emergency working at the hospital about his rally crowds compared to Beto O'Rourke's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJhrQ9ghwo8
Oh, Trump also still owes El Paso half a mil for his February rally there: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/06/politics/trump-campaign-el-paso-debt/index.html
Quote from: Razgovory on August 08, 2019, 01:58:13 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 08, 2019, 01:02:00 PM
3/10?
Looks good taken in isolation.
But when you consider that in generations past this would have been 8 or 9 out of 10 and the 3 they do have are merely the latest in long running franchises....
As I said I'm saying nothing radical here. This is all well discussed territory with it being the "no it isn't. Actually..." side that is the opposing viewpoint these days.
https://www.theverge.com/2014/3/20/5522320/final-fight-can-japans-gaming-industry-be-saved (https://www.theverge.com/2014/3/20/5522320/final-fight-can-japans-gaming-industry-be-saved)
This is 8 in ten. Eight of the developers are Japanese or owned by a Japanese company.
Sony may be a Japanese headquartered company but come on. Its an international company and the games were very much developed outside of Japan. Its daft to call them Japanese. Very few Japanese people have been employed in the games industry due to these games.
Is it daft to call Toyota a Japanese company because they build cars in North America
Anyway, that is a false equivalency. Size of the Market refers to the buying of games by the public, not how many games are made in the country.
Who are the people next to first couple and orphan baby?
Quote from: dps on August 09, 2019, 06:52:15 AM
Is it daft to call Toyota a Japanese company because they build cars in North America
Well it is not exactly the same. Toyota built those factories, they are not paying an American car company to stick a Toyota sticker on their cars.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 09, 2019, 09:05:18 AM
Who are the people next to first couple and orphan baby?
Relatives of the killed (adoptive) parents, it seems. The boy was released a few days earlier, but was brought back to the hospital for the photo op.
Quote from: dps on August 09, 2019, 06:52:15 AM
Is it daft to call Toyota a Japanese company because they build cars in North America
A better analogy would be calling Jaguar Indian.
Yes, they're ultimately owned by Tata.
But this has very little impact on the day to day of the company or their overall Britishness?
And even that is stretching it in many of the cases where the game was only published by Sony and developed by an independent studio.
Quote from: Tyr on August 09, 2019, 06:27:09 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 08, 2019, 01:58:13 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 08, 2019, 01:02:00 PM
3/10?
Looks good taken in isolation.
But when you consider that in generations past this would have been 8 or 9 out of 10 and the 3 they do have are merely the latest in long running franchises....
As I said I'm saying nothing radical here. This is all well discussed territory with it being the "no it isn't. Actually..." side that is the opposing viewpoint these days.
https://www.theverge.com/2014/3/20/5522320/final-fight-can-japans-gaming-industry-be-saved (https://www.theverge.com/2014/3/20/5522320/final-fight-can-japans-gaming-industry-be-saved)
This is 8 in ten. Eight of the developers are Japanese or owned by a Japanese company.
Sony may be a Japanese headquartered company but come on. Its an international company and the games were very much developed outside of Japan. Its daft to call them Japanese. Very few Japanese people have been employed in the games industry due to these games.
It is your opinion that a wholly owned subsidiary is fundamentally different than the parent company when the subsidiary and parent company are located in different countries?
Quote from: Razgovory on August 09, 2019, 11:54:20 AM
It is your opinion that a wholly owned subsidiary is fundamentally different than the parent company when the subsidiary and parent company are located in different countries?
Even within the same country its possible for a subsidiary to be very different to its parent and effectively operate as its own company with a totally different culture.
Quote from: Tyr on August 09, 2019, 11:58:27 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 09, 2019, 11:54:20 AM
It is your opinion that a wholly owned subsidiary is fundamentally different than the parent company when the subsidiary and parent company are located in different countries?
Even within the same country its possible for a subsidiary to be very different to its parent and effectively operate as its own company with a totally different culture.
So an American car company building a factory in Britain produces British cars? What happens when the various components are made in different countries? How does that affect the nationality of the product?
Quote from: Razgovory on August 09, 2019, 12:02:48 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 09, 2019, 11:58:27 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 09, 2019, 11:54:20 AM
It is your opinion that a wholly owned subsidiary is fundamentally different than the parent company when the subsidiary and parent company are located in different countries?
Even within the same country its possible for a subsidiary to be very different to its parent and effectively operate as its own company with a totally different culture.
So an American car company building a factory in Britain produces British cars? What happens when the various components are made in different countries? How does that affect the nationality of the product?
Well let me ask you this question: if the USA had lots of car companies making cars in other countries and zero cars (or parts or components or anything) were actually being made in the USA then would we have a vibrant car industry even though we are actually making no cars?
Quote from: Syt on August 09, 2019, 01:55:43 AM
I'm sure this little one will cherish this picture when he grows up, commemorating getting to meet the pres because his parents were killed.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBfwFOgUcAAlgGT?format=jpg&name=small)
I don't understand how you take a picture with an orphaned baby by smiling and doing a thumbsup, I mean unless you are taking a picture commemorating you signing the adoption papers.
Quote from: Valmy on August 09, 2019, 12:37:39 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 09, 2019, 12:02:48 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 09, 2019, 11:58:27 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 09, 2019, 11:54:20 AM
It is your opinion that a wholly owned subsidiary is fundamentally different than the parent company when the subsidiary and parent company are located in different countries?
Even within the same country its possible for a subsidiary to be very different to its parent and effectively operate as its own company with a totally different culture.
So an American car company building a factory in Britain produces British cars? What happens when the various components are made in different countries? How does that affect the nationality of the product?
Well let me ask you this question: if the USA had lots of car companies making cars in other countries and zero cars (or parts or components or anything) were actually being made in the USA then would we have a vibrant car industry even though we are actually making no cars?
Yeah, I guess you could call it a "vibrant". I certainly wouldn't call it dead. I took a look at the best selling games on Switch. All of the top 10 are developed in Japan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Nintendo_Switch_video_games
Quote
Missouri Walmart panic caused by armed man testing gun rights
10 August 2019
A man who sparked panic by walking into a Walmart with a rifle and body armour told police he was testing his right to bear arms in public.
Dmitriy Andreychenko entered the shop heavily armed, days after a mass shooting at another of Walmart's stores.
"I wanted to know if that Walmart honoured the second amendment," the 20-year-old told police after his arrest.
Prosecutors have charged him with making a terrorist threat.
If found guilty, the charge could result in a four-year prison sentence and a fine of $10,000 (£8,300), Greene County prosecutor Dan Patterson said in a statement.
On 8 August, Mr Andreychenko entered the store "armed with an AR style rifle slung across his chest", police said, wearing a ballistic vest and recording himself. Both the rifle and a handgun he carried were loaded.
He told police he did not expect the reaction his walk generated.
"This is Missouri, I understand if we were somewhere else like New York or California, people would freak out," he said, according to police filings.
Days before, 20 people had been killed in a Walmart in El Paso by a gunman carrying an automatic rifle.
The police statement also revealed that his wife, Angelice, had told him "it was not a smart idea".
"She told him that people were going to take this seriously due to recent events... she told him he was just an immature boy," it said.
'''''''
Mr Andreychenko told police he only intended to buy some grocery bags and check if anyone tried to stop him.
The store manager "believed Andreychenko came to the store to shoot people", the police statement said, and triggered the fire alarm to evacuate customers.
Mr Andreychenko was held at gunpoint by an off-duty fire fighter, who was legally carrying his own weapon, until police arrested him.
.....
I wonder if he'd been shot, whether trump would have tweeted in his 'defence'?
Full article here:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49303879 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49303879)
His wife sounds smart.
Quote from: mongers on August 10, 2019, 08:58:38 AM
Quote
He told police he did not expect the reaction his walk generated.
"Blyat".
People who open carry are assholes and it's never surprising to find another one that doesn't think about how people perceive him.
Quote from: Berkut on August 10, 2019, 09:00:05 AM
His wife sounds smart.
She smartened up a lot after the marriage, I guess she's a fast leaner. :)
Quote from: Habbaku on August 10, 2019, 09:04:31 AM
People who open carry are assholes and it's never surprising to find another one that doesn't think about how people perceive him.
I remember watching a video a couple of years ago with some moron who open-carried an assault rifle inside an airport. Obviously the intention was to draw attention and highlight how he was completely within his legal rights (which he was, thanks to moron lawmakers). I wonder if there are legal but asshole things that can be done to these morons to respond to the legal but asshole acts like walking around with a rifle in crowded places.
https://youtu.be/ZNKbXm4j9-s
Quote from: mongers on August 10, 2019, 08:58:38 AM
Quote
Missouri Walmart panic caused by armed man testing gun rights
10 August 2019
A man who sparked panic by walking into a Walmart with a rifle and body armour told police he was testing his right to bear arms in public.
Dmitriy Andreychenko entered the shop heavily armed, days after a mass shooting at another of Walmart's stores.
"I wanted to know if that Walmart honoured the second amendment," the 20-year-old told police after his arrest.
Prosecutors have charged him with making a terrorist threat.
If found guilty, the charge could result in a four-year prison sentence and a fine of $10,000 (£8,300), Greene County prosecutor Dan Patterson said in a statement.
On 8 August, Mr Andreychenko entered the store "armed with an AR style rifle slung across his chest", police said, wearing a ballistic vest and recording himself. Both the rifle and a handgun he carried were loaded.
He told police he did not expect the reaction his walk generated.
"This is Missouri, I understand if we were somewhere else like New York or California, people would freak out," he said, according to police filings.
Days before, 20 people had been killed in a Walmart in El Paso by a gunman carrying an automatic rifle.
The police statement also revealed that his wife, Angelice, had told him "it was not a smart idea".
"She told him that people were going to take this seriously due to recent events... she told him he was just an immature boy," it said.
'''''''
Mr Andreychenko told police he only intended to buy some grocery bags and check if anyone tried to stop him.
The store manager "believed Andreychenko came to the store to shoot people", the police statement said, and triggered the fire alarm to evacuate customers.
Mr Andreychenko was held at gunpoint by an off-duty fire fighter, who was legally carrying his own weapon, until police arrested him.
.....
I wonder if he'd been shot, whether trump would have tweeted in his 'defence'?
Full article here:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49303879 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49303879)
I'm a bit surprised as well that they had the presence of mind to run away. That's down in Springfield Missouri, deep in the Ozarks. Few people have an even number of Great-Grand parents down there.
Quote from: mongers on August 10, 2019, 08:58:38 AM
Quote
Missouri Walmart panic caused by armed man testing gun rights
10 August 2019
A man who sparked panic by walking into a Walmart with a rifle and body armour told police he was testing his right to bear arms in public.
Dmitriy Andreychenko entered the shop heavily armed, days after a mass shooting at another of Walmart's stores.
"I wanted to know if that Walmart honoured the second amendment," the 20-year-old told police after his arrest.
Prosecutors have charged him with making a terrorist threat.
If found guilty, the charge could result in a four-year prison sentence and a fine of $10,000 (£8,300), Greene County prosecutor Dan Patterson said in a statement.
On 8 August, Mr Andreychenko entered the store "armed with an AR style rifle slung across his chest", police said, wearing a ballistic vest and recording himself. Both the rifle and a handgun he carried were loaded.
He told police he did not expect the reaction his walk generated.
"This is Missouri, I understand if we were somewhere else like New York or California, people would freak out," he said, according to police filings.
Days before, 20 people had been killed in a Walmart in El Paso by a gunman carrying an automatic rifle.
The police statement also revealed that his wife, Angelice, had told him "it was not a smart idea".
"She told him that people were going to take this seriously due to recent events... she told him he was just an immature boy," it said.
'''''''
Mr Andreychenko told police he only intended to buy some grocery bags and check if anyone tried to stop him.
The store manager "believed Andreychenko came to the store to shoot people", the police statement said, and triggered the fire alarm to evacuate customers.
Mr Andreychenko was held at gunpoint by an off-duty fire fighter, who was legally carrying his own weapon, until police arrested him.
.....
Dumbass needs to understand, it's got nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment and everything to do with property rights. Broadly speaking, you have no right to be on private property except under the conditions set by the property owner. Stores are private property--if Walmart says you can't carry firearms into their stores, you have no right to challenge that'; you can either go onto their property under their conditions, or you can stay the fuck out.
Quote from: mongers on August 10, 2019, 08:58:38 AM
Quote
Dmitriy Andreychenko entered the shop heavily armed, days after a mass shooting at another of Walmart's stores.
"I wanted to know if that Walmart honoured the second amendment," the 20-year-old told police after his arrest.
Now you know, schmuck.
Walmart is not Congress.
Just a little bit of devil's advocate on behalf of this dope:
- Walmart has a policy that allows open-carry in their stores (though I don't believe it applies to what this guy was carrying).
- Simply being a dope and violating Walmart policy does not/should not bring about the charges that were filed in this case.
- The wording of Missouri's "Making a terrorist threat" law seems pretty sketchy to to apply in this case:
Quote574.115. Making a terrorist threat, first degree — penalty. — 1. A person commits the offense of making a terrorist threat in the first degree if such person, with the purpose of frightening ten or more people or causing the evacuation, quarantine or closure of any portion of a building, inhabitable structure, place of assembly or facility of transportation, knowingly:
(1) Communicates an express or implied threat to cause an incident or condition involving danger to life; or
(2) Communicates a false report of an incident or condition involving danger to life; or
(3) Causes a false belief or fear that an incident has occurred or that a condition exists involving danger to life.
2. The offense of making a terrorist threat in the first degree is a class D felony.
3. No offense is committed under this section by a person acting in good faith with the purpose to prevent harm.
Unless there is more evidence/context than is missing in the news coverage, they're going to have to prove that open-carry is an implied threat. And I doubt one could get away with "violating Walmart company policy" or "shortly after a well-known shooting in a another Walmart".
But I expect this will end up with him pleading guilty to lesser charges long after we have all forgotten about it. :sleep:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw_vSIDvlLc
At least five dead in Midland, or Midland area.
Quote from: 11B4V on August 04, 2019, 11:46:55 AM
If Las Vegas and/or Sandy Hook didn't move the needle, neither will these.
Yeah. I've always viewed it as something alien that I just won't get. But if Sandy Hook and the murder of six year olds doesn't change things, then this is just a choice.
Quote from: Iormlund on July 30, 2019, 05:46:07 PM
It's such an alien fear. Terrorism aside, the last (only really) killing-spree I can recall was Puerto Hurraco, and that was almost 30 years ago.
Yeah. I was in primary school - would have been 9 or 10 - in a small Scottish village, when Dunblane happened. Which was our last mass shooting, when Thomas Hamilton walked into a small Scottish town's primary school and killed sixteen 5 year olds and their teacher.
I don't remember any fear or significant changes. My school got a sign saying you weren't allowed on site without authorisation by the head teacher. But it was a school of about 40 kids, split into three classes. I was in the oldest group taught by the head mistress. The news came in through the day and I distinctly remember her crying through the afternoon class after lunch.
I can't imagine the alien fear that she must have been feeling at that time in that situation.
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 01, 2019, 09:35:18 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 04, 2019, 11:46:55 AM
If Las Vegas and/or Sandy Hook didn't move the needle, neither will these.
Yeah. I've always viewed it as something alien that I just won't get. But if Sandy Hook and the murder of six year olds doesn't change things, then this is just a choice.
I don't know, I feel like there's much more fervor by gun control advocates than 20 years ago.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 01, 2019, 12:27:32 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 01, 2019, 09:35:18 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 04, 2019, 11:46:55 AM
If Las Vegas and/or Sandy Hook didn't move the needle, neither will these.
Yeah. I've always viewed it as something alien that I just won't get. But if Sandy Hook and the murder of six year olds doesn't change things, then this is just a choice.
I don't know, I feel like there's much more fervor by gun control advocates than 20 years ago.
Have they actually gotten anything done?
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 01, 2019, 12:27:32 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 01, 2019, 09:35:18 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 04, 2019, 11:46:55 AM
If Las Vegas and/or Sandy Hook didn't move the needle, neither will these.
Yeah. I've always viewed it as something alien that I just won't get. But if Sandy Hook and the murder of six year olds doesn't change things, then this is just a choice.
I don't know, I feel like there's much more fervor by gun control advocates than 20 years ago.
Yeah in the late 80s with all the gun violence of the 1980s there was a strong push. But once people stop shooting lots of people the gun rights people re-assert themselves.
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 01, 2019, 09:46:00 AM
Yeah. I was in primary school - would have been 9 or 10 - in a small Scottish village, when Dunblane happened. Which was our last mass shooting, when Thomas Hamilton walked into a small Scottish town's primary school and killed sixteen 5 year olds and their teacher.
I don't remember any fear or significant changes. My school got a sign saying you weren't allowed on site without authorisation by the head teacher. But it was a school of about 40 kids, split into three classes. I was in the oldest group taught by the head mistress. The news came in through the day and I distinctly remember her crying through the afternoon class after lunch.
I can't imagine the alien fear that she must have been feeling at that time in that situation.
Did you walk from the castle to school, or did the chauffeur drive you?
There was a minivan! Picked up all the country kids. Once when I was about eight, slid the door shut and got my rucksack caught. Driver pulled away and dragged me for about 100m before he realised <_<
Had him whipped did you?