2016 elections - because it's never too early

[garbon]

Because Democrats' self-segregation is causing permanent minority status even when they get a majority of votes. (Also, residents of those enclaves tend to be well out of touch with Middle America.)

I'm not sure 'enclave' has much of a meaning if you are going to stretch it to cover all of the counties that are currently blue in California. Probably fit at least a few Trump states into that area.

(Note, I take the note generally but isn't really something that excluding California would make interesting - that point is really covered by the overall discrepancy between electoral and popular vote.)

http://www.politico.com/2016-election/results/map/president/california/

[garbon]

Because Democrats' self-segregation is causing permanent minority status even when they get a majority of votes. (Also, residents of those enclaves tend to be well out of touch with Middle America.)

Well, I suppose preventing such enclaves from controlling the country was one of the goals in mind of those who invented the Electoral College. So I guess the system is working as designed.

I don't know why we need to suppose anything. We've a lot of evidence from the founding fathers as to why they chose that system.

[celedhring]

Because Democrats' self-segregation is causing permanent minority status even when they get a majority of votes. (Also, residents of those enclaves tend to be well out of touch with Middle America.)

Well, I suppose preventing such enclaves from controlling the country was one of the goals in mind of those who invented the Electoral College. So I guess the system is working as designed.

I don't know why we need to suppose anything. We've a lot of evidence from the founding fathers as to why they chose that system.

Yeah, AFAIK it's spelled out pretty clearly that the intent was that the people didn't elect the president directly and there would be an intermediate body of folks that "would know better".

So I don't think originalist appeals particularly support the Trumpist cause here.

[grumbler]

Yeah, AFAIK it's spelled out pretty clearly that the intent was that the people didn't elect the president directly and there would be an intermediate body of folks that "would know better".

So I don't think originalist appeals particularly support the Trumpist cause here.

Actually, not only is your assertion not "spelled out pretty clearly," it is completely wrong.  The purpose of the EC is to allow disproportionate representation to the smaller states, who feared that, without it, they would be ignored in the presidential campaigns.  There is zero evidence that the purpose of the EC was to simply to allow people who "knew better" to over-ride the popular vote

[DGuller]

Maybe he should take time off on his own, to reflect and dwell on that "eat his words" comment. Ouch.

I'd rather have Tim take time off than DGuller.

[celedhring]

Yeah, AFAIK it's spelled out pretty clearly that the intent was that the people didn't elect the president directly and there would be an intermediate body of folks that "would know better".

So I don't think originalist appeals particularly support the Trumpist cause here.

Actually, not only is your assertion not "spelled out pretty clearly," it is completely wrong.  The purpose of the EC is to allow disproportionate representation to the smaller states, who feared that, without it, they would be ignored in the presidential campaigns.  There is zero evidence that the purpose of the EC was to simply to allow people who "knew better" to over-ride the popular vote

Hamilton spelled it out on the Federalist Papers. He's certainly just one horse, but it's certainly the horse's mouth.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed68.asp

[Eddie Teach]

California is simply the best example of the discrepancy in action.

[Valmy]

Yes. People totally move to cities to "self-segregate". It has nothing at all to do with that being where the jobs are or something. There could be tons of high paying jobs throughout the Kansas countryside but nobody would move there because they are so evil and Democratlike and shit.

[garbon]

Yes. People totally move to cities to "self-segregate". It has nothing at all to do with that being where the jobs are or something. There could be tons of high paying jobs throughout the Kansas countryside but nobody would move there because they are so evil and Democratlike and shit.

Well to be fair, there are only parts of America where I'd want to live - those that tend to have a lot of gay bars and art museums. Pretty sure I could get a similar job in a red state/country but I'd probably find it hard to be happier.

And that's of course, leaving aside safety concerns.

[Valmy]

Yes. People totally move to cities to "self-segregate". It has nothing at all to do with that being where the jobs are or something. There could be tons of high paying jobs throughout the Kansas countryside but nobody would move there because they are so evil and Democratlike and shit.

Well to be fair, there are only parts of America where I'd want to live - those that tend to have a lot of gay bars and art museums. Pretty sure I could get a similar job in a red state/country but I'd probably find it hard to be happier.

And that's of course, leaving aside safety concerns.

Yeah but you are only a recent convert to the Democratic Party

[Eddie Teach]

Yes. People totally move to cities to "self-segregate". It has nothing at all to do with that being where the jobs are or something. There could be tons of high paying jobs throughout the Kansas countryside but nobody would move there because they are so evil and Democratlike and shit.

People who move to NYC or California often are partly motivated by the desire to be around like minded people. But go ahead and take it as a personal criticism even though you live in Texas. 

[Valmy]

Yes. People totally move to cities to "self-segregate". It has nothing at all to do with that being where the jobs are or something. There could be tons of high paying jobs throughout the Kansas countryside but nobody would move there because they are so evil and Democratlike and shit.

People who move to NYC or California often are partly motivated by the desire to be around like minded people. But go ahead and take it as a personal criticism even though you live in Texas. 

I didn't take it personally. I have never left my hometown

People move to California or NYC because those are places where people make it big. I suppose you could also make it big in Mississippi, like Scipio, but it lacks a similar image.

[garbon]

Yes. People totally move to cities to "self-segregate". It has nothing at all to do with that being where the jobs are or something. There could be tons of high paying jobs throughout the Kansas countryside but nobody would move there because they are so evil and Democratlike and shit.

People who move to NYC or California often are partly motivated by the desire to be around like minded people. But go ahead and take it as a personal criticism even though you live in Texas. 

NYC sure, California...well I'm not sure on that. California, by virtue of size and number of people, has a fair degree of diversity. You can get your red state community depending where you live.

[garbon]

Yes. People totally move to cities to "self-segregate". It has nothing at all to do with that being where the jobs are or something. There could be tons of high paying jobs throughout the Kansas countryside but nobody would move there because they are so evil and Democratlike and shit.

Well to be fair, there are only parts of America where I'd want to live - those that tend to have a lot of gay bars and art museums. Pretty sure I could get a similar job in a red state/country but I'd probably find it hard to be happier.

And that's of course, leaving aside safety concerns.

Yeah but you are only a recent convert to the Democratic Party

True and a most dissatisfied one. Unfortunately the opposition has become so toxic, there's no longer a 'home' for me there.

Also, I bet I could make an absolute killing among closet cases.

[Eddie Teach]

Yes. People totally move to cities to "self-segregate". It has nothing at all to do with that being where the jobs are or something. There could be tons of high paying jobs throughout the Kansas countryside but nobody would move there because they are so evil and Democratlike and shit.

People who move to NYC or California often are partly motivated by the desire to be around like minded people. But go ahead and take it as a personal criticism even though you live in Texas. 

NYC sure, California...well I'm not sure on that. California, by virtue of size and number of people, has a fair degree of diversity. You can get your red state community depending where you live.

Sure, but the state overall is non-competitive, and the hot spots for out-of-state immigration even more so.