2016 elections - because it's never too early

[celedhring]

I really really really do not understand the US voter ID controversy. In Poland (and I suspect most of continental Europe) you can't vote without an ID.

Registered voters in Germany get a letter or postcard that invites them to vote. That notification is all you need to vote. You only need an ID if you don't have that notification with you.

That seems pretty rife for abuse if those get sent to a wrong or old address. Over here ID is mandatory.

The problem with the US is that getting a valid state ID is non-trivial compared to Europe. IMHO they should just implement European-style mandatory ID cards but MUH LIBERTY.

[Admiral Yi]

The problem with the US is that getting a valid state ID is non-trivial compared to Europe.

Please elaborate.

[Valmy]

The problem with the US is that getting a valid state ID is non-trivial compared to Europe.

Please elaborate.

You need certain ID to get a valid state ID. I think we have talked this to death already.

Now why it is so much easier in Euroland is another question

[Admiral Yi]

You need certain ID to get a valid state ID. I think we have talked this to death already.

Now why it is so much easier in Euroland is another question

A question worthy of elaboration, some might say.

[celedhring]

The problem with the US is that getting a valid state ID is non-trivial compared to Europe.

Please elaborate.

You need certain ID to get a valid state ID. I think we have talked this to death already.

Now why it is so much easier in Euroland is another question

I can't vouch for other countries, but getting a Spanish ID card only takes one hour at a police station. Since it is mandatory, it means that you're on file since your teenage years, and the process is trivial.

[celedhring]

Imho the US should just turn that shitty SSN card into a photo ID.

[Admiral Yi]

I can't vouch for other countries, but getting a Spanish ID card only takes one hour at a police station. Since it is mandatory, it means that you're on file since your teenage years, and the process is trivial.

And what is the process to get on file?

[celedhring]

I can't vouch for other countries, but getting a Spanish ID card only takes one hour at a police station. Since it is mandatory, it means that you're on file since your teenage years, and the process is trivial.

And what is the process to get on file?

Birth certificate, photos, census certificate. That's only for the first time you get it.

Thing is, thanks to the beauty of State coercion, you have completed it before you are of voting age.

[mongers]

So is the Tuesday night debate worth staying up for, as it'll be 1.30 am-3 am over here?

[mongers]

I really really really do not understand the US voter ID controversy. In Poland (and I suspect most of continental Europe) you can't vote without an ID.

Registered voters in Germany get a letter or postcard that invites them to vote. That notification is all you need to vote. You only need an ID if you don't have that notification with you.

We pretty much roll that way too, but in effect you can just declare who you are if you turn up without the invite/reminder.

[Admiral Yi]

Birth certificate, photos, census certificate. That's only for the first time you get it.

Thing is, thanks to the beauty of State coercion, you have completed it before you are of voting age.

Then I don't see how the Yuro approach is all that much easier.  Getting a driver's license or passport is our equivalent of being entered in Teh System.

[celedhring]

Birth certificate, photos, census certificate. That's only for the first time you get it.

Thing is, thanks to the beauty of State coercion, you have completed it before you are of voting age.

Then I don't see how the Yuro approach is all that much easier.  Getting a driver's license or passport is our equivalent of being entered in Teh System.

You don't need to take driving lessons to get a Spanish ID card. 

You need a valid state ID to get a yank passport AFAIK.

[Admiral Yi]

You don't need to take driving lessons to get a Spanish ID card. 

DMV also issues non-driving ID cards.

You need a valid state ID to get a yank passport AFAIK.

I thought birth certificate would do it.

[Jacob]

A question worthy of elaboration, some might say.

It has been fairly settled that the more of a hassle you make it to get proper ID - however you define that - the fewer people get it. It has also been fairly clearly established that the drop-off is higher among low-income demographics (who tend to vote Democrat). At the same time ID measures and budget cuts coincidentally tend to close down or restrict services in minority areas (that tend to vote Democrat), to refuse to accept state issued university IDs while accepting state issued gun licenses (where the tendency is to vote Democrat and Republican respectively) et. al.

Here's a link outlining cases the ACLU is involved in: https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/will-2016-presidential-election-be-decided-voter-suppression-laws

Here's a link to a map they have with areas of concern: https://www.aclu.org/map/voter-suppression-laws-whats-new-2012-presidential-election

In the 10 states with restrictive voter ID laws:

• Nearly 500,000 eligible voters do not have access to a vehicle and live more than 10 miles from the nearest state ID-issuing office open more than two days a week. Many of them live in rural areas with dwindling public transportation options.
• More than 10 million eligible voters live more than 10 miles from their nearest state ID-issuing office open more than two days a week.
• 1.2 million eligible black voters and 500,000 eligible Hispanic voters live more than 10 miles from their nearest ID-issuing office open more than two days a week. People of color are more likely to be disenfranchised by these laws since they are less likely to have photo ID than the general population.
• Many ID-issuing offices maintain limited business hours. For example, the office in Sauk City, Wisconsin is open only on the fifth Wednesday of any month. But only four months in 2012 — February, May, August, and October — have five Wednesdays. In other states — Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, and Texas — many part-time ID-issuing offices are in the rural regions with the highest concentrations of people of color and people in poverty.

http://www.brennancenter.org/publication/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification

[Admiral Yi]

So is the Tuesday night debate worth staying up for, as it'll be 1.30 am-3 am over here?

I think it's going to be a very important piece of political theater, but if I knew there was going to be a rerun I might skip the live broadcast.