2016 elections - because it's never too early

[Razgovory]

I hate treason.  I hate the celebration of treason by the decedents of it's perpetrators.  You don't see the family of the Rosenberg bragging about giving atomic secrets to the Reds, but I'll be damned if they don't fly the Confederate battle flag down south.

[frunk]

The part about the temperatures being the same is pretty funny, sad, and embarrassing. 

The sad part isn't thinking the temperatures are the same, it's thinking that it matters if the temperature on Mars is the same as on Earth.  I'm pretty sure he doesn't understand what the words global, climate or change mean.

[Berkut]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/07/when-extremism-goes-mainstream/374955/

Jeb Bush is the sane one?

Jesus wept.

What is your problem with Jeb?

Don't really have a problem with him, other than the basic issue I have with all these "family" politicians.

Just think it is kind of amazing that he is now what passes for a moderate.

[derspiess]

well, there's always a cost to something, but does the monetary benefit outweigh the monetary cost?

There is also the strain on social services (as in California), lost tax revenue, etc.  And a significant portion of wages earned by illegal immigrants is sent back to their home countries, so our local economies lost out on that money.

I don't know if illegal immigration is monetarily a net benefit or not, but it is a debate worth having and that debate should include non-monetary factors.

i don't find the national security argument persuasive,

It may be overstated by some, but having such an unsecured, porous border is probably a bad idea IMO. 

nor the argument that a hired mexican means an unhired american

Probably not a zero sum game like that, but to look at the argument made on the other extreme I'm not convinced that all illegal immigrants are filling jobs "Americans just won't do".  Many are jobs Americans would prefer not to do, and many are jobs Americans would do if they paid a better wage.

There's a lot of middle ground between "throw all the illegals out" and a blanket amnesty.

It's a debate worth having, and it should factor in

[LaCroix]

I think he's thinking about welfare.

And health care and schooling.

yeah, that's what i don't know - the monetary cost. not every illegal is going to be on welfare, use health care, or have children to send to school, though. most illegals are working, however. so, do they provide an overall negative or positive effect to the US economy? i suspect positive, but i could be wrong. i think we get a few illegals during the summer, and i know the boers come to work on sugar beet fields

[derspiess]

I hate treason.  I hate the celebration of treason by the decedents of it's perpetrators.

All of them?

You don't see the family of the Rosenberg bragging about giving atomic secrets to the Reds, but I'll be damned if they don't fly the Confederate battle flag down south.

It annoys me as well, but I think you're reading too much into it.  I think for most it's an expression of regional or cultural pride (which is silly but whatever) rather than a strict allegiance to the CSA.

And that's aside from the fact that very few Southerners actually display that flag.

[Valmy]

And that's aside from the fact that very few Southerners actually display that flag.

Well they don't now.  Back in the 80s the damn thing was everywhere.

[Razgovory]

I hate treason.  I hate the celebration of treason by the decedents of it's perpetrators.

All of them?

You don't see the family of the Rosenberg bragging about giving atomic secrets to the Reds, but I'll be damned if they don't fly the Confederate battle flag down south.

It annoys me as well, but I think you're reading too much into it.  I think for most it's an expression of regional or cultural pride (which is silly but whatever) rather than a strict allegiance to the CSA.

And that's aside from the fact that very few Southerners actually display that flag.

Yes, that regional pride is part of celebration of their ancestors treason.  And yes, I hold anyone in contempt that celebrates treason against the US.  I see it enough here in Missouri.  Hell it's on the state flag of Mississippi.  They may as well wave the hammer and sickle.  The soviets at least didn't kill that many American soldiers.

[Eddie Teach]

I hate treason.  I hate the celebration of treason by the decedents of it's perpetrators. 

This is an incredibly stupid position for an American to take.

[Razgovory]

I hate treason.  I hate the celebration of treason by the decedents of it's perpetrators. 

This is an incredibly stupid position for an American to take.

It's not treason if you win.

[derspiess]

I hate treason.  I hate the celebration of treason by the decedents of it's perpetrators. 

This is an incredibly stupid position for an American to take.

GEORGE III BETRAYED US

[Syt]

And that's aside from the fact that very few Southerners actually display that flag.

Well they don't now.  Back in the 80s the damn thing was everywhere.

Probably a Dukes of Hazzard fad.

[The Minsky Moment]

doesn't illegal immigration help the US economy?

There is reason to believe it might.
The immigration laws in the US focus on family reunification.  Skills and workforce matching are part of it but secondary - that was one thing the abortive reform was supposed to address but didn't.

Historically illegals have been primarily motivated by economics, so there is reason to think that the average illegal may be better matched to the labor needs of the US economy than the average legal.

[derspiess]

Yes, that regional pride is part of celebration of their ancestors treason.  And yes, I hold anyone in contempt that celebrates treason against the US.  I see it enough here in Missouri.  Hell it's on the state flag of Mississippi.  They may as well wave the hammer and sickle.  The soviets at least didn't kill that many American soldiers.

  Again you're reading too much into it.  For most of them the treason thing doesn't factor at all.  Now is your hatred directed at all Southern descendants?  Or just those who display the flag

I can generally ignore the CSA battle flag when I'm in the South.  It's their thing, whatever.  But I admit I want to vomit every time I see it in Ohio or other non-Southern areas.

[Razgovory]

Yes, that regional pride is part of celebration of their ancestors treason.  And yes, I hold anyone in contempt that celebrates treason against the US.  I see it enough here in Missouri.  Hell it's on the state flag of Mississippi.  They may as well wave the hammer and sickle.  The soviets at least didn't kill that many American soldiers.

  Again you're reading too much into it.  For most of them the treason thing doesn't factor at all.  Now is your hatred directed at all Southern descendants?  Or just those who display the flag

I can generally ignore the CSA battle flag when I'm in the South.  It's their thing, whatever.  But I admit I want to vomit every time I see it in Ohio or other non-Southern areas.

The ones that take pride in it.  The culture thing that "I'm reading to much into", is front in center to your question about immigration.  A lot of people who are against immigration are worried about it eroding their cultural heritage.  I say that their cultural heritage a poisonous celebration of treason for the sake of tyranny and that eradicating it is in the public good and thus good for the current citizens of the US.  I can see why you disagree, these are your political allies after all.