The liberal arts

[fhdz]

Well, looks like Ide had a cup of coffee. Iumpin' Iesu Christe.

He's had a classical education! Get him!

[Eddie Teach]

As I said before, I think it's valuable enough in the K-12 arena to teach it, for democracy and culture and critical thinking and all the other reasons outlined by my opponents.

But, related to my reply above, do you really--really--think that in a world where the number of liberal arts grads was reduced by a factor of ten, it would have any profound affect on the amount and quality of the cultural product we create, or that our conversations would become lowbrow and our lives gray?

I'm talking about keeping kids out of debt and unfucking the higher education market.  How this is even controversial, let alone worthy of invective, suggests how ingrained in our society is the idea, but not the reality, of what our colleges do.

Eh, I'd be perfectly fine with the government paying for college completely. And how does taking away federal student aid from humanities majors keep kids out of debt?

[Ideologue]

They won't get loans to go to Starbucks school.

Do you really think it's sufficiently taught in grades 1-12 to ensure good participants in civic life?

I meant to add that a gen-ed libarts component to the engineering, biology, and astronaut degrees we would offer under my system would be also be fine and acceptable.  There are positions mid-way between "no liberal arts taught in college ever" and "history degrees for all comers."

[ulmont]

Eh, I'd be perfectly fine with the government paying for college completely.

Word up.  Undergrad only, of course - we don't need any more J.D.s.

[Eddie Teach]

They'll go to college anyway because they're young and optimistic and think they'll get one of the cushy office jobs.

[Josquius]

The toilet paper dispenser at my University had "Humanities degrees, please take one" written above it.   

It's pretty easy to get a good grade in something fun like history.
On the other hand if you choose to study "super hard physics" one might struggle.
Yet when it comes to getting a job all the employer tends to see is the grade, in hindsight I often think I should have studied history; had more fun time at school, enjoyed what I was learning more, and got a first and a job at the end of it.

[Ideologue]

They'll go to college anyway because they're young and optimistic and think they'll get one of the cushy office jobs.

With what money?

Eh, I'd be perfectly fine with the government paying for college completely. And how does taking away federal student aid from humanities majors keep kids out of debt?

And yes, that would be fine by me as well, because it means the DoE would step in and actually do its job.  But since that's a political fantasy, I didn't mention it in the poll.

[Eddie Teach]

With what money?

The money Mom and Dad have to borrow from the bank. Or barring that, the money they get working at Starbucks.

[Ideologue]

It's a free country.  I think you'll find a lot fewer people going into majors with no obvious ROI when they're investing their own money, however.

[The Brain]

The toilet paper dispenser at my University had "Humanities degrees, please take one" written above it.   

It's pretty easy to get a good grade in something fun like history.
On the other hand if you choose to study "super hard physics" one might struggle.
Yet when it comes to getting a job all the employer tends to see is the grade, in hindsight I often think I should have studied history; had more fun time at school, enjoyed what I was learning more, and got a first and a job at the end of it.

I've been a history buff since I was a toddler and I chose to study "super hard physics". The main reason was that that I wanted to be knowledgeable in several fields to increase my understanding of the world. One of the other reasons was that I realized during my HS years that history as it is being studied and researched at university is a joke and not intellectually or emotionally relevant.

Scientists are often knowledgeable in the liberal arts. Liberal arts people are often completely clueless about science.

[alfred russel]

Ide, at the risk of poking the bear, if you step back for a moment, aren't you better off with your education? You have an office job that pays reasonably well. I know it isn't a dream job, but do you really think you would be happier as a welder?

[fhdz]

I'd be happier as a welder

Sadly, apprenticeship programs are virtually nowhere to be found around here. Craigslist ads I've seen for welders want "experienced" ones; none of them say "will train", "apprentice", or etc.

[Ideologue]

Ide, at the risk of poking the bear, if you step back for a moment, aren't you better off with your education? You have an office job that pays reasonably well. I know it isn't a dream job, but do you really think you would be happier as a welder?

Opportunity costs are hard to measure.  It was not unlikely I'd be in a restaurant management capacity, however, earning $10,000-20,000 a year more and with further opportunities for advancement.  I'm not doing poorly, but remember I'm a temp and there is vanishingly little chance for permanent employment, let alone true stability and forget real advancement, in doc review.

And that's my $65,000 + living expenses professional degree.  The only reason I earned more money after I got my history degree is I started waiting tables at a higher price-per-plate restaurant.

[The Minsky Moment]

The problem is not the humanities.   The US is predominantly a service economy, and managers and executives in such industry require literacy, communication, and social reasoning skills that can be enhanced by a good humanities-based education.   The problem is the notion that everyone ought to go to university.  that is a problem because increasing the number of university graduates doesn't necessarily increase the number of jobs that require or need that level of education. 

[CountDeMoney]

I'd be happier as a welder

My uncle was.  Always wished he stopped.

A guy I worked with in bail bonds early in my career left the biz to go be an underwater welder.  Traveled the fucking world and made serious coin.