Breaking news: Margaret Thatcher has died

[Martinus]

I just wonder why "half of them weren't even alive when she was the prime minister" is used against those who celebrate her death, whereas the same can be said about those who venerate her. 

Good point.

Not only that, but it's been pretty much argued here from the beginning here that Thatcher's legacy remains in modern day Britain and elsewhere today. In other words, the kids today are still feeling the results of her policies, and (rightly or wrongly) feel that they are negatively effected by them.

It doesn't just need to be that. I can see how a lot of people may be disgusted by her questionable record on human rights (support for Pinochet or apartheid, anti-gay policies) without being affected by it.

To the extent that you go and party after her death? Seems like you'd just be a person looking for an excuse to party given the number of people that have questionable records on that.

Perhaps, but then I suspect the reaction to her death would have been much more tame had she been vilified universally - that's the nature of modern politics - the more divisive it is, the stronger emotions it breeds.

The partying is an emotional fuck you to people who depict her as a living saint (we had the same stuff going on after Kaczynski's death). If the general consensus was that "well yeah she was pretty shitty", there would be no more to it.

[Valmy]

It doesn't just need to be that. I can see how a lot of people may be disgusted by her questionable record on human rights (support for Pinochet or apartheid, anti-gay policies) without being affected by it.

The Pinochet thing happened because he helped the UK out in the Falklands right?  Anyway her "support" (to the extent that it was) had no significant impact in any of those situations and certainly not one that extends today.

[Martinus]

But don't dismiss them just because they're young and weren't around in the 80s.

As CC said, I think the onus of justification falls to those that decide to have a party to celebrate the death of a fellow human.

I disagree - the onus of justification falls to those who are making an extraordinary claim - in equal measures to those who consider her the greatest British PM to ever live, as those who are celebrating the death of a She-Devil. The problem with deaths is that while both sides lie and embellish truths convenient to them, the hagiographers manage to convince the public they are just being respectful - whereas they are just as bad.

[garbon]

Perhaps, but then I suspect the reaction to her death would have been much more tame had she been vilified universally - that's the nature of modern politics - the more divisive it is, the stronger emotions it breeds.

The partying is an emotional fuck you to people who depict her as a living saint (we had the same stuff going on after Kaczynski's death). If the general consensus was that "well yeah she was pretty shitty", there would be no more to it.

Don't they realize that just makes them look immature? Having a party as a protest seems to be mixing message with entertainment.

[Martinus]

It doesn't just need to be that. I can see how a lot of people may be disgusted by her questionable record on human rights (support for Pinochet or apartheid, anti-gay policies) without being affected by it.

The Pinochet thing happened because he helped the UK out in the Falklands right?  Anyway her "support" (to the extent that it was) had no significant impact in any of those situations and certainly not one that extends today.

All you said is irrelevant if one expects ethical behavior from politicians (yes, I know, a pipe dream).

[Valmy]

Perhaps, but then I suspect the reaction to her death would have been much more tame had she been vilified universally - that's the nature of modern politics - the more divisive it is, the stronger emotions it breeds.

Well and it was a divisive time and, of course, she cultivated the hatred of people as well. 

The partying is an emotional fuck you to people who depict her as a living saint (we had the same stuff going on after Kaczynski's death). If the general consensus was that "well yeah she was pretty shitty", there would be no more to it.

I think they consider her a devil and ascribe to her all sorts of powers that shaped the world that she did not really have.  I think there would be celebrating regardless given what they hold her responsible for.

[Jacob]

What's a few feet between friends?

60.96 cm if you mean two feet, 91.44 cm if you meant three feet...

[garbon]

I disagree - the onus of justification falls to those who are making an extraordinary claim - in equal measures to those who consider her the greatest British PM to ever live, as those who are celebrating the death of a She-Devil. The problem with deaths is that while both sides lie and embellish truths convenient to them, the hagiographers manage to convince the public they are just being respectful - whereas they are just as bad.

I think most of the people who said that she was great have explained why. Also, I think it is pretty common to say positive things about someone after they are dead. It's fine I think to throw in some criticisms but again that's really neither here nor there when you've devolved to "The Bitch is Dead" as your main rhetoric.

[Martinus]

Perhaps, but then I suspect the reaction to her death would have been much more tame had she been vilified universally - that's the nature of modern politics - the more divisive it is, the stronger emotions it breeds.

The partying is an emotional fuck you to people who depict her as a living saint (we had the same stuff going on after Kaczynski's death). If the general consensus was that "well yeah she was pretty shitty", there would be no more to it.

Don't they realize that just makes them look immature? Having a party as a protest seems to be mixing message with entertainment.

Modern tribal politics is not about convincing anyone, just about making sure you feel like you won.

Besides, as a gay guy, you should be the last to poo-poo a protest mixed with an entertainment.

[Viking]

Perhaps, but then I suspect the reaction to her death would have been much more tame had she been vilified universally - that's the nature of modern politics - the more divisive it is, the stronger emotions it breeds.

The partying is an emotional fuck you to people who depict her as a living saint (we had the same stuff going on after Kaczynski's death). If the general consensus was that "well yeah she was pretty shitty", there would be no more to it.

Don't they realize that just makes them look immature? Having a party as a protest seems to be mixing message with entertainment.

Modern tribal politics is not about convincing anyone, just about making sure you feel like you won.

Besides, as a gay guy, you should be the last to poo-poo a protest mixed with an entertainment.

Not modern, that's just what Hamas and Hisbullah crowed about after Israel bombed all their base.

[Martinus]

I disagree - the onus of justification falls to those who are making an extraordinary claim - in equal measures to those who consider her the greatest British PM to ever live, as those who are celebrating the death of a She-Devil. The problem with deaths is that while both sides lie and embellish truths convenient to them, the hagiographers manage to convince the public they are just being respectful - whereas they are just as bad.

I think most of the people who said that she was great have explained why. Also, I think it is pretty common to say positive things about someone after they are dead. It's fine I think to throw in some criticisms but again that's really neither here nor there when you've devolved to "The Bitch is Dead" as your main rhetoric.

I don't agree with the "only good things about the dead" attitude, beyond private circumstances and the funeral service. When a public figure dies, it does not make them immune to criticism.

[garbon]

Modern tribal politics is not about convincing anyone, just about making sure you feel like you won.

Well they didn't really win did they? Her policies still happened and influenced Britain's subsequent history. How does her death (at 87) in any way count as a win? This sounds like the thoughts of people who are a bit soft in the head.

Besides, as a gay guy, you should be the last to poo-poo a protest mixed with an entertainment.

I've never been at a protest that was a party.

[Valmy]

I'm guessing a part where they haven't had any street parties to celebrate the death of a former president?

Our attention spans are not really that long.  I mean sure people hated Nixon but in 1993 the emotions from 20 years ago had cooled.  The British clearly stay mad much longer.

[crazy canuck]

Thatcher started something that moved England so far right, that even the labour party is now a centrist, or centre-right party.
That's part of her legacy.

Wow, is there anything that Maggie could not do!  Quick someone call Blair and tell him he was  Maggie's creature.

[garbon]

I don't agree with the "only good things about the dead" attitude, beyond private circumstances and the funeral service. When a public figure dies, it does not make them immune to criticism.

I think I said that you could put in criticism - but I think you need to look at actual criticism...and relevant criticism. I don't think "The bitch is dead, she destroyed Britian" passes muster.