50-Point Swing Against Targeted Drone Killings of U.S. Citizens

[derspiess]

I wonder if Randy Weaver would have as much sympathy amongst Conservative-Libertarian types if he was a black radical instead of an white Aryan Nations type.  They can often tell exactly the crimes of the overstretching government at Ruby Ridge but are often ignorant of the MOVE debacle less then ten years previous where the police dropped a fucking bombing on a house and accidentally burned down a whole city block.

I don't think sympathy's really the right term, and I don't think he was an Aryan Nations member.  He was a bit of a nutter, but even nutters have rights.

[derspiess]

How many lives could've been saved if we just eliminated the whole Ruby Ridge gang quietly, before they raised the stink that drew attention to them?

On what grounds?

[DGuller]

How many lives could've been saved if we just eliminated the whole Ruby Ridge gang quietly, before they raised the stink that drew attention to them?

On what grounds?

Cabin grounds.

[grumbler]

Normally I would agree with you, but this is one of these cases where the public simply will not have enough data to make an informed decision.

In such case I favour letting the public elect the guy who will make an informed decision, rather than letting the public take the decision itself.

That's the kind of thinking that leads to dictatorships.  The leadership simply has to be responsible to the public.  If the leadership gets to decide what the public gets to know, those public elections are meaningless.

[The Brain]

Normally I would agree with you, but this is one of these cases where the public simply will not have enough data to make an informed decision.

In such case I favour letting the public elect the guy who will make an informed decision, rather than letting the public take the decision itself.

That's the kind of thinking that leads to dictatorships.  The leadership simply has to be responsible to the public.  If the leadership gets to decide what the public gets to know, those public elections are meaningless.

Are you into open government?

[Martinus]

Normally I would agree with you, but this is one of these cases where the public simply will not have enough data to make an informed decision.

In such case I favour letting the public elect the guy who will make an informed decision, rather than letting the public take the decision itself.

That's the kind of thinking that leads to dictatorships.  The leadership simply has to be responsible to the public.  If the leadership gets to decide what the public gets to know, those public elections are meaningless.

Are you into open government?

My dear boy, it is a contradiction in terms; you can be open or you can have government.

[Razgovory]

I wonder if Randy Weaver would have as much sympathy amongst Conservative-Libertarian types if he was a black radical instead of an white Aryan Nations type.  They can often tell exactly the crimes of the overstretching government at Ruby Ridge but are often ignorant of the MOVE debacle less then ten years previous where the police dropped a fucking bombing on a house and accidentally burned down a whole city block.

I don't think sympathy's really the right term, and I don't think he was an Aryan Nations member.  He was a bit of a nutter, but even nutters have rights.

He kept showing up at Aryan Nations rallies which is where he was first approached by federal agents.  I think that makes him an Aryan Nations type.  Of course, a lot of conservatives have defending him have tried to whitewash that aspect of the man.

[The Brain]

It's OK for federal agents to be Aryan Nation but when a normal citizen does it it's bad?

[mongers]

How many more Americans have been killed by drones, since I last looked at this thread ?

[fhdz]

I wonder if Randy Weaver would have as much sympathy amongst Conservative-Libertarian types if he was a black radical instead of an white Aryan Nations type.  They can often tell exactly the crimes of the overstretching government at Ruby Ridge but are often ignorant of the MOVE debacle less then ten years previous where the police dropped a fucking bombing on a house and accidentally burned down a whole city block.

I don't think sympathy's really the right term, and I don't think he was an Aryan Nations member.  He was a bit of a nutter, but even nutters have rights.

He kept showing up at Aryan Nations rallies which is where he was first approached by federal agents.  I think that makes him an Aryan Nations type.  Of course, a lot of conservatives have defending him have tried to whitewash that aspect of the man.

You're Catholic, but we don't shoot you in the face for it

[Malthus]

On atotally unrelated note - I wonder how "drone" came to mean a robotic aircraft.

I always associated it with the male bee, and it isn't a complement when directed at a person (it usually means a sort of featureless parasite, I guess from the fact that male bees do no work other than procreate).

[garbon]

Here's what wiki has but who knows.

In 1931, the British developed the Fairey "Queen" radio-controlled target from the Fairey IIIF floatplane, building a small batch of three, and in 1935 followed up this experiment by producing larger numbers of another RC target, the "DH.82B Queen Bee", derived from the De Havilland Tiger Moth biplane trainer. Through some convoluted path, the name of "Queen Bee" is said to have led to the use of the term "drone" for pilotless aircraft, particularly when they are radio-controlled

[Ed Anger]

There was also the Kettering Bug, but it was more of a flying bomb cruise missile type thing.

[Malthus]

Here's what wiki has but who knows.

In 1931, the British developed the Fairey "Queen" radio-controlled target from the Fairey IIIF floatplane, building a small batch of three, and in 1935 followed up this experiment by producing larger numbers of another RC target, the "DH.82B Queen Bee", derived from the De Havilland Tiger Moth biplane trainer. Through some convoluted path, the name of "Queen Bee" is said to have led to the use of the term "drone" for pilotless aircraft, particularly when they are radio-controlled

Heh, cool. Though not, as you point out, definitive. 

[derspiess]

I wonder if Randy Weaver would have as much sympathy amongst Conservative-Libertarian types if he was a black radical instead of an white Aryan Nations type.  They can often tell exactly the crimes of the overstretching government at Ruby Ridge but are often ignorant of the MOVE debacle less then ten years previous where the police dropped a fucking bombing on a house and accidentally burned down a whole city block.

I don't think sympathy's really the right term, and I don't think he was an Aryan Nations member.  He was a bit of a nutter, but even nutters have rights.

He kept showing up at Aryan Nations rallies which is where he was first approached by federal agents.  I think that makes him an Aryan Nations type.  Of course, a lot of conservatives have defending him have tried to whitewash that aspect of the man.

He apparently attended some of their meetings and then at some point had a falling out with them.  But my understanding is that various fringe groups/types tend to make contacts with each other.  He could have been a white supremicist.  Or he could have just been indifferent to it & wanted to make business contacts with them or whatever. 

But I guess we're splitting hairs here-- he was a big conspiracy nutter and certainly no hero to me.  I actually saw him once at a gun show in Maryland.  He was there selling/signing his book.  Oddly enough he wasn't getting much attention as both times I walked by his table he had nobody else there.  He had a really weird (crazy weird) look in his eyes but also seemed to be a bit sad/fatalistic.  Maybe because nobody was buying his book