Putin: Winter War was fought to correct errors in border with Finland

Started by Syt, March 15, 2013, 05:00:52 AM

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Valmy

Quote from: Razgovory on March 17, 2013, 06:33:19 AM
There were many in this country who thought we should ally with Hitler.  I suspect there still are some.

So?  Many in this country wanted a communist revolution as well.  And I also suspect there are still some :P
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

Quote from: Ideologue on March 16, 2013, 10:09:42 PM
Why support the Finns when it turns out they were all secretly Jew-hating Nazi sympathizers, and monsters to a man?  Sure, no one knew it yet in 1939, they were just defending themselves.  But perhaps Stalin had an inkling of their allegiance to true evil.

I guess I missed the part in WWII where everybody supported the Finns.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Razgovory

Quote from: Valmy on March 17, 2013, 07:39:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 17, 2013, 06:33:19 AM
There were many in this country who thought we should ally with Hitler.  I suspect there still are some.

So?  Many in this country wanted a communist revolution as well.  And I also suspect there are still some :P

I was explaining to Barrister the context of Derspeiss's statement.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Ideologue

Quote from: Valmy on March 17, 2013, 07:40:40 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 16, 2013, 10:09:42 PM
Why support the Finns when it turns out they were all secretly Jew-hating Nazi sympathizers, and monsters to a man?  Sure, no one knew it yet in 1939, they were just defending themselves.  But perhaps Stalin had an inkling of their allegiance to true evil.

I guess I missed the part in WWII where everybody supported the Finns.

Iirc Churchill contemplated a declaration of war on the USSR.  Not totally unreasonable, given that the Nazis and Sovs were essentially acting as co-belligerents, if not allies, against the small peoples f Eastern Europe.  But also not a very smooth move.

Anyway, I do overstate my case, mainly because I wanted to say "Fuck Finland," because the Continuation War accomplished exactly jack and shit, other than diverting Soviet resources and prolonging the war on the Eastern Front slightly.  So, yeah, fuck Finland.

This is distinct entirely from my previous arguments that we (the U.S., with our allies) should have readied ourselves and attacked the USSR in a war of liberation in 1948 or even earlier.  The key difference: the Nazis were all gone and we could have actually won.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Ed Anger

Churchill strikes me as a dullard sometimes. Declare war on the sovs to support mouthsugars? Invade Sicily in '40? What a maroon.
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

derspiess

Quote from: Razgovory on March 17, 2013, 07:56:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 17, 2013, 07:39:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 17, 2013, 06:33:19 AM
There were many in this country who thought we should ally with Hitler.  I suspect there still are some.

So?  Many in this country wanted a communist revolution as well.  And I also suspect there are still some :P

I was explaining to Barrister the context of Derspeiss's statement.

:huh:
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Razgovory

I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Valmy on March 17, 2013, 07:40:40 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 16, 2013, 10:09:42 PM
Why support the Finns when it turns out they were all secretly Jew-hating Nazi sympathizers, and monsters to a man?  Sure, no one knew it yet in 1939, they were just defending themselves.  But perhaps Stalin had an inkling of their allegiance to true evil.

I guess I missed the part in WWII where everybody supported the Finns.
Britain and France nearly declared war on the USSR over it and drew up plans for bombing raids. That would have been rad.  :cool:
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Ideologue

Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 17, 2013, 10:56:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 17, 2013, 07:40:40 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 16, 2013, 10:09:42 PM
Why support the Finns when it turns out they were all secretly Jew-hating Nazi sympathizers, and monsters to a man?  Sure, no one knew it yet in 1939, they were just defending themselves.  But perhaps Stalin had an inkling of their allegiance to true evil.

I guess I missed the part in WWII where everybody supported the Finns.
Britain and France nearly declared war on the USSR over it and drew up plans for bombing raids. That would have been rad.  :cool:

Britain losing World War II?  YEAH, WAY RADICAL AND EVEN TUBULAR
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Valmy

Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 17, 2013, 10:56:24 PM
Britain and France nearly declared war on the USSR over it and drew up plans for bombing raids. That would have been rad.  :cool:

Yeah and it took them so long the war was over before they were even on step 1 to get there.  Their heart was not in it.  I was talking about actual support not kinda thinking it would be nice to do something.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

Quote from: Ideologue on March 17, 2013, 08:25:17 PM
Iirc Churchill contemplated a declaration of war on the USSR.

Well he did not even become PM until May of 1940 so...
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

dps

Quote from: Valmy on March 17, 2013, 11:10:11 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 17, 2013, 10:56:24 PM
Britain and France nearly declared war on the USSR over it and drew up plans for bombing raids. That would have been rad.  :cool:

Yeah and it took them so long the war was over before they were even on step 1 to get there.  Their heart was not in it.  I was talking about actual support not kinda thinking it would be nice to do something.

From what I can gather, the French were pretty serious about wanting to bomb Baku from bases in Syria and Iraq.  The British apparantly weren't all that enthusiastic about it, but were willing to go along with the French at least as far as planning such raids was concerned. 

The planning seemed to overlook the fact that they'd have to overfly Turkey and possibly Iran, or just assumed that those countries would be OK with their airspace being violated.

Ideologue

Quote from: Valmy on March 17, 2013, 11:12:33 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 17, 2013, 08:25:17 PM
Iirc Churchill contemplated a declaration of war on the USSR.

Well he did not even become PM until May of 1940 so...

Or maybe it was Chamberlain.  Or maybe it didn't happen at all.  I said "iirc." :P
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Razgovory

Quote from: Ideologue on March 17, 2013, 10:58:44 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 17, 2013, 10:56:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 17, 2013, 07:40:40 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 16, 2013, 10:09:42 PM
Why support the Finns when it turns out they were all secretly Jew-hating Nazi sympathizers, and monsters to a man?  Sure, no one knew it yet in 1939, they were just defending themselves.  But perhaps Stalin had an inkling of their allegiance to true evil.

I guess I missed the part in WWII where everybody supported the Finns.
Britain and France nearly declared war on the USSR over it and drew up plans for bombing raids. That would have been rad.  :cool:

Britain losing World War II?  YEAH, WAY RADICAL AND EVEN TUBULAR

Timmay really does like his alt-history.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Ideologue on March 17, 2013, 10:58:44 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 17, 2013, 10:56:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 17, 2013, 07:40:40 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on March 16, 2013, 10:09:42 PM
Why support the Finns when it turns out they were all secretly Jew-hating Nazi sympathizers, and monsters to a man?  Sure, no one knew it yet in 1939, they were just defending themselves.  But perhaps Stalin had an inkling of their allegiance to true evil.

I guess I missed the part in WWII where everybody supported the Finns.
Britain and France nearly declared war on the USSR over it and drew up plans for bombing raids. That would have been rad.  :cool:

Britain losing World War II?  YEAH, WAY RADICAL AND EVEN TUBULAR
US would have got involved quicker.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point