Would you consider your spouse getting fat a good reason for divorce?

[Malthus]

So, they go with what they know: diets. Which never ends well for anyone.

Gotta disagree on that.  That is, if you accept anecdotal evidence.

It's only been in the past decade that the idea of changing your lifestyle instead of dieting has come into the forefront of thought.Before, it was always, "Diet to lose weight!" Well, that's all well and good, except that it's counter-productive. These days, we're focusing more on living a healthy lifestyle instead, and guess what? Weights are going down in the US. There are fewer overweight and obese children today than there were 10 years ago. Adults are making better lifestyle choices. But it takes time.

This is directly contrary to what I've been reading - which is that obesity is worse than ever before, and getting worse all the time. However, I'm willing to be educated otherwise.

And in the meantime, yes, some people are going to say, "You know what, fuck it, and fuck you. I'm making changes in my life, and if I'm not dropping pounds the way that you think I should, fuck you." My best friend walks 3 miles every day, watches her calories, and is still over 300 pounds at 5'10". Sure, she eats more than she should on occasion still, and doesn't exercise as much as she could, but she's made huge changes in her life, and her body is responding well to it, even if she's only losing about a pound a month. Should she be made to feel ugly and unattractive? Should she be shunned and ostracized? Or should she say, "Look at me! I'm awesome! I'm big, and I'm beautiful!"?

You guys would call that being a fat apologist. I say that's owning who you are, and loving who you are, regardless of how others may perceive you. The woman in the article appears to be doing that very thing.

No doubt people should feel good about themselves rather than bad. Problem is that pesky reality won't change just because one adopts some feel-good attitudes. I have nothing against having the "fuck you" attitude towards judgmental strangers. But fooling yourself about your own health is simply stupid.

In the case of the women in the article, the issue isn't some asshole strangers judging her, but alienation from her husband. She forces him to make a choice: her way or the highway. He chooses her way and so she "won". Imagine if the genders were reveresed and his inability to stop drinking was the issue he "won" on.

It isn't his fault he does not find her attractive at her new "fat is beautiful" size - while he misses her companionship enough to put up with it, this is hardly the ideal solution for either of them.

[garbon]

This is directly contrary to what I've been reading - which is that obesity is worse than ever before, and getting worse all the time. However, I'm willing to be educated otherwise.

According to CDC adult women's obesity has remained static from 1999-2010 but adult men's was increasing.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db82.pdf

But yeah childhood obesity doesn't look good.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/obesity_child_07_08/obesity_child_07_08.pdf

[merithyn]

I think the recurring theme to this thread has been that most of us disapprove of people who have given up & aren't even trying anymore.  I doubt most of us would be critical of someone who's still trying to lose weight, unless maybe they just say they're trying but really just half-assing it. 

And you know, just by looking at someone, where they fall? Even you spouse could be saying, "I give up!" while still trying to watch what she eats, move around more, and make small changes that you don't notice. I know that I don't tell Max every change I make in my life, and yet he does hear me say, "I'm done!"

That's a bit harsh, though I guess that's a good motivator for some people.  It would be for me.

And judgmental, and cruel, and unnecessary.

Whoa, there.  Let's not get crazy.  Nothing is beautiful at 300 lbs.  That mentality causes people to coast.  Fat Acceptance FTL.

That's where your opinion doesn't get to become fact. I happen to think my best friend IS beautiful. So does her fiance. I worry about her health, as does he, but her weight doesn't make her ugly.

[merithyn]

This is directly contrary to what I've been reading - which is that obesity is worse than ever before, and getting worse all the time. However, I'm willing to be educated otherwise.

According to CDC adult women's obesity has remained static from 1999-2010 but adult men's was increasing.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db82.pdf

But yeah childhood obesity doesn't look good.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/obesity_child_07_08/obesity_child_07_08.pdf

CDC says:

•Obesity and extreme obesity among U.S. low-income, preschool-aged children went down for the first time in recent years, according to CDC's first national study.1
•From 2003 through 2010, the prevalence of obesity decreased slightly from 15.21% to 14.94%. Similarly, the prevalence of extreme obesity decreased from 2.22% to 2.07%.1
•However, from 1998 through 2003, the prevalence of obesity increased from 13.05% to 15.21%, and the prevalence of extreme obesity increased from 1.75% to 2.22%.1
•Extreme obesity significantly decreased among all racial groups except American Indians/Alaska Natives. The greatest decrease was among 2-year old and Asian/Pacific Islander children.1

[garbon]

This is directly contrary to what I've been reading - which is that obesity is worse than ever before, and getting worse all the time. However, I'm willing to be educated otherwise.

According to CDC adult women's obesity has remained static from 1999-2010 but adult men's was increasing.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db82.pdf

But yeah childhood obesity doesn't look good.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/obesity_child_07_08/obesity_child_07_08.pdf

CDC says:

•Obesity and extreme obesity among U.S. low-income, preschool-aged children went down for the first time in recent years, according to CDC's first national study.1
•From 2003 through 2010, the prevalence of obesity decreased slightly from 15.21% to 14.94%. Similarly, the prevalence of extreme obesity decreased from 2.22% to 2.07%.1
•However, from 1998 through 2003, the prevalence of obesity increased from 13.05% to 15.21%, and the prevalence of extreme obesity increased from 1.75% to 2.22%.1
•Extreme obesity significantly decreased among all racial groups except American Indians/Alaska Natives. The greatest decrease was among 2-year old and Asian/Pacific Islander children.1

I'm not sure I'd cite the slight decrease for low-income children given that it isn't mentioned as significant and the percent change is just that - slight. Actually that was my exact reason for not mentioning it.

[Berkut]

I think we are seeing a societal shift in how we think about weight and obesity and health.

Or maybe not so much a shift in HOW we think about obesity, but rather a shift to simply thinking about it a lot more to begin with.

When I was a kid, nobody talked to us about health and obesity - the only message I recall hearing about being fat when I was in elementary and junior high were horror stories about kids with eating disorders.

There were certainly fat kids around, and they were treated poorly, of course, but it was just kind of a fact of life.

Now, there is a very noticeable and concerted effort to educate kids about their own health, and a much more straightforward and (IMO) healthy message that being fit is not something that some people just have and others do not, but instead is the outcome of particular choices made.

I was never told I should be concerned about my weight by my parents, even though my paternal grandfather died of a heart attack in his fifties (obese) and my father is obese. I was fat as a kid (or at least became so in high school), but it was never really brought up as something I should worry about, until *I* started worrying about it in my twenties.

I won't make that mistake with my son. He has the genetics to have a weight issue if he doesn't take some care with his eating and activity habits, and I intend to make sure he is perfectly aware of that. Maybe he ends up overweight anyway, but if he does it won't be because he wasn't aware that he is at risk for it.

[merithyn]

Gotta disagree on that.  That is, if you accept anecdotal evidence.

It works on the short-term, but diets have proven to be incredibly ineffective in the long-term. The only way to keep weight off is through life-style changes that are permanent, as opposed to fad diets, or even diet plans like Weight Watchers.

This is directly contrary to what I've been reading - which is that obesity is worse than ever before, and getting worse all the time. However, I'm willing to be educated otherwise.

See my post to garbon.

No doubt people should feel good about themselves rather than bad. Problem is that pesky reality won't change just because one adopts some feel-good attitudes. I have nothing against having the "fuck you" attitude towards judgmental strangers. But fooling yourself about your own health is simply stupid.

What part of what I posted shows my friend being stupid about her health? She's made massive changes to her lifestyle. Her weight is trending down. Her health is better than it's been in a decade. She knows that she still has a long way to go, and is continuing down the right path. How is that "fooling" herself about her own health? By saying, "I own who I am, and I am beautiful" she has the self-esteem to keep going in that direction. The other option is to listen to all of the people calling her fat, and ugly, and gross, which will send her into depression, which will undo all the work she's already put in.

In the case of the women in the article, the issue isn't some asshole strangers judging her, but alienation from her husband. She forces him to make a choice: her way or the highway. He chooses her way and so she "won". Imagine if the genders were reveresed and his inability to stop drinking was the issue he "won" on.

It isn't his fault he does not find her attractive at her new "fat is beautiful" size - while he misses her companionship enough to put up with it, this is hardly the ideal solution for either of them.

Read the article again. Yes, she's embracing her shape, but she's STILL working on being healthy. What she gave up on was the idea that she had to be thin to be beautiful. And if her husband doesn't agree, then he needs to go. If he's willing to take her as she is, well, that's on him. God knows that plenty of women have stayed with their alcoholic husbands because ultimately, they were better off with them (in their mind) than without.

I want to touch on the bolded part again. She's not saying that she's given up on being healthy. She's continuing the changes that they made together. What she's giving up on is the idea that in order to be beautiful, she has to be thin. Instead, she's saying, "You know what, fuck you all (husband included). I AM beautiful right now. Who I am is beautiful. Take it or leave it."

I have zero problem with that.

[merithyn]

I think we are seeing a societal shift in how we think about weight and obesity and health.

Or maybe not so much a shift in HOW we think about obesity, but rather a shift to simply thinking about it a lot more to begin with.

When I was a kid, nobody talked to us about health and obesity - the only message I recall hearing about being fat when I was in elementary and junior high were horror stories about kids with eating disorders.

There were certainly fat kids around, and they were treated poorly, of course, but it was just kind of a fact of life.

Now, there is a very noticeable and concerted effort to educate kids about their own health, and a much more straightforward and (IMO) healthy message that being fit is not something that some people just have and others do not, but instead is the outcome of particular choices made.

I was never told I should be concerned about my weight by my parents, even though my paternal grandfather died of a heart attack in his fifties (obese) and my father is obese. I was fat as a kid (or at least became so in high school), but it was never really brought up as something I should worry about, until *I* started worrying about it in my twenties.

I won't make that mistake with my son. He has the genetics to have a weight issue if he doesn't take some care with his eating and activity habits, and I intend to make sure he is perfectly aware of that. Maybe he ends up overweight anyway, but if he does it won't be because he wasn't aware that he is at risk for it.

I agree completely, Berk. I think that that is where we're headed, and it's going to make a difference with time. The bolded part in particular is the important bit.

[Malthus]

This is directly contrary to what I've been reading - which is that obesity is worse than ever before, and getting worse all the time. However, I'm willing to be educated otherwise.

According to CDC adult women's obesity has remained static from 1999-2010 but adult men's was increasing.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db82.pdf

But yeah childhood obesity doesn't look good.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/obesity_child_07_08/obesity_child_07_08.pdf

CDC says:

•Obesity and extreme obesity among U.S. low-income, preschool-aged children went down for the first time in recent years, according to CDC's first national study.1
•From 2003 through 2010, the prevalence of obesity decreased slightly from 15.21% to 14.94%. Similarly, the prevalence of extreme obesity decreased from 2.22% to 2.07%.1
•However, from 1998 through 2003, the prevalence of obesity increased from 13.05% to 15.21%, and the prevalence of extreme obesity increased from 1.75% to 2.22%.1
•Extreme obesity significantly decreased among all racial groups except American Indians/Alaska Natives. The greatest decrease was among 2-year old and Asian/Pacific Islander children.1

You are looking at statistics concerning one target population. The linked statistics state "Obesity and extreme obesity rates decline among low-income preschool children". However, if one examines *all* children, from the link posted on the same site directly below the stuff you posted (and linked by garbon), the picture is less rosy - it shows an overall increase, with 2-5 years for some reason spiking in 2003 and declining thereafter. Only wishful thinking can make those graphs look good. 

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/obesity_child_07_08/obesity_child_07_08.htm

[garbon]

Read the article again. Yes, she's embracing her shape, but she's STILL working on being healthy. What she gave up on was the idea that she had to be thin to be beautiful. And if her husband doesn't agree, then he needs to go. If he's willing to take her as she is, well, that's on him. God knows that plenty of women have stayed with their alcoholic husbands because ultimately, they were better off with them (in their mind) than without.

I want to touch on the bolded part again. She's not saying that she's given up on being healthy. She's continuing the changes that they made together. What she's giving up on is the idea that in order to be beautiful, she has to be thin. Instead, she's saying, "You know what, fuck you all (husband included). I AM beautiful right now. Who I am is beautiful. Take it or leave it."

I have zero problem with that.

I think you are reading into the article things that aren't there. I only saw these two bits that mention anything regarding health and they don't really show she's continuing any changes.

My health was fine; I worked out regularly and my weight didn't prevent me from doing activities I enjoyed; I had a husband who loved me. Maybe the struggle to be thin was causing me more pain than it was worth? Maybe learning to love my fat body was a smarter goal than losing weight?

We both try to get plenty of exercise (he's more into weightlifting; I like swimming)

[DGuller]

The real problem is that many of us have jobs that enforce sedentary habits - exercise is an "extra" done in free time; our working hours are spend sitting at a desk. We who have such occupations have to learn to eat accordingly and make the time to exercise, neither of which is easy.

I think exercise is vastly over-rated, at least when it comes to weight loss.  It doesn't burn that many calories, it is a chore that is very hard to keep at long term, and it may raise your caloric intake requirements.  I think being sensible about what you eat has a much bigger impact than an unsustainable exercise regimen.

[Iormlund]

I'm not going to shun someone who's fat. But I will ignore them when it comes to mating rituals. That's not a conscious decision. I simply don't find fat people attractive, just as I don't fancy walking sticks.

My boss is obese and I haven't seen anyone insult him or shun him.

As for how hard it is to change habits, let me continue with him as an example: After years of half-assed diets and 'this is too hard' he was recently diagnosed with a deadly mix of hypertension, faulty heart valve and severe dilation of the aorta. It literally took the doctors to tell him he's going to die to make something about his habits. He's managed to lose a lot of weight this past year, despite being unable to exercise at all (his aorta could blow up). Sadly after a year of effort his body is getting used to the new norm and he is stalling, still in danger zone.
Like your friend, he should have never got there in the first place. If he had done half what he's doing now for the last 20 years, he'd be in top shape and would not be facing frightening odds on open heart surgery. That he is doing it now certainly proves he could have done it all along.

[DGuller]

It should be as easy as looking in the mirror & saying "holy crap, I've let myself go" and then making changes in your life.  It can't be that hard-- I've done it.

I don't think that's easy at all, actually.  People are very good at lying to themselves, since they're lying to a receptive audience.

[merithyn]

You are looking at statistics concerning one target population. The linked statistics state "Obesity and extreme obesity rates decline among low-income preschool children". However, if one examines *all* children, from the link posted on the same site directly below the stuff you posted (and linked by garbon), the picture is less rosy - it shows an overall increase, with 2-5 years for some reason spiking in 2003 and declining thereafter. Only wishful thinking can make those graphs look good. 

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/obesity_child_07_08/obesity_child_07_08.htm

That was true through 2010, but I'm fairly sure that I saw a report from the schools showing that childhood obesity rates have stagnated if not started to go down. The problem is that they've changed their stats-taking method on the CDC, which means that you can't compare any stats from 2011-2013 to anything prior to that.

[merithyn]

I think you are reading into the article things that aren't there. I only saw these two bits that mention anything regarding health and they don't really show she's continuing any changes.

My health was fine; I worked out regularly and my weight didn't prevent me from doing activities I enjoyed; I had a husband who loved me. Maybe the struggle to be thin was causing me more pain than it was worth? Maybe learning to love my fat body was a smarter goal than losing weight?

We both try to get plenty of exercise (he's more into weightlifting; I like swimming)

Her health is fine, and she gets plenty of exercise via swimming. How does that not say what I said?