Why women don't study computer programming - AAR of my first class

[derspiess]

Pragmatism probably. Meri's objective is to learn the stuff and pass the class, not fix the guy.

But that's also why said guy is going to keep doing this. Only person I could easily see call him out is some wide-eyed/idealistic young co-ed as any other student would adopt the pragmatic attitude.

I'm seriously considering just sending him a note saying that while I appreciate his efforts in trying to make me feel more comfortable in his class, I'd really rather my gender wasn't mentioned again.

I wouldn't do the note thing unless he's too intimidating to talk to in person.

[Berkut]

Pragmatism probably. Meri's objective is to learn the stuff and pass the class, not fix the guy.

But that's also why said guy is going to keep doing this. Only person I could easily see call him out is some wide-eyed/idealistic young co-ed as any other student would adopt the pragmatic attitude.

Naw, the thing that is going to change that kind of behaviour is female profs in the faculty.

I think men can manage to not act like douchebags without a woman on the faculty telling them not to act like douchebags.

Besides, why would you even assume that there aren't any women on the faculty now?

[Berkut]

I have little sympathy for your observation that "discrimination sucks" as it applies to you personally.

This is unsurprising.

It should not be surprising. Not having sympathy for someone complaining about something they could easily handle on their own if it really bothered them is a pretty normal reaction to have, I think.

[garbon]

I wouldn't do the note thing unless he's too intimidating to talk to in person.

Yeah might come off kinda strange.

[garbon]

I have little sympathy for your observation that "discrimination sucks" as it applies to you personally.

This is unsurprising.

It should not be surprising. Not having sympathy for someone complaining about something they could easily handle on their own if it really bothered them is a pretty normal reaction to have, I think.

She can easily handle it? She can easily tell her professor that he's making him feel uncomfortable without a good chance that he'll feel uncomfortable / hold it against her?

[Jacob]

Very nice Meri. I'll keep that in mind.

You're kind of being a jerk about this Berkut.

I mean, you're a swell guy with a good heart and all that, but you're doing the classic "so you had something unpleasant or discriminatory happen to you? Let's focus on how it's your fault/ how you suck/ how it's YOUR responsibility to fix the situation. Oh, and if you don't agree with me on what you should do, then you pretty much deserve what happened" thing.

Seems reasonable enough to respond with a "fuck you" to that.

[Berkut]

What I don't get it what is there to be so afraid of in regards to talking to him, or even going so far as to engaging whatever resources the school has to deal with this kind of thing (I am sure there is a counselor or HR person she could talk to).

She is taking an intro CS course. What is he going to do that would be so terrible that it might impact her ability to earn a paycheck? And does she really have so little faith in her school that she thinks the school would allow him to take reprisals against her for bringing up the issue?

A professor, in class, actively calling out the gender of a student and making clear and unambiguous stereotypical remarks about their ability to do the course work based on their gender is so 40 years ago that it is amazing to me that he hasn't been fired already, or that he doesn't have 20 complaints filed against him. Hell, if *I* was in his class I would complain if I heard him say something like that to another student.

[Berkut]

I have little sympathy for your observation that "discrimination sucks" as it applies to you personally.

This is unsurprising.

It should not be surprising. Not having sympathy for someone complaining about something they could easily handle on their own if it really bothered them is a pretty normal reaction to have, I think.

She can easily handle it? She can easily tell her professor that he's making him feel uncomfortable without a good chance that he'll feel uncomfortable / hold it against her?

Yes, she is an adult. She isn't some 18 year old kid who thinks professors are gods or something.

Or she can go to the schools HR department, or whatever resources the school has to handle this kind of thing if she doesn't want to talk to him herself and someone else will do it for her.

[garbon]

My eyes glaze over when you mention reports to HR.

I'm happy that you can be so blasé about such issues. Not everyone can.

[Berkut]

Very nice Meri. I'll keep that in mind.

You're kind of being a jerk about this Berkut.

I mean, you're a swell guy with a good heart and all that, but you're doing the classic "so you had something unpleasant or discriminatory happen to you? Let's focus on how it's your fault/ how you suck/ how it's YOUR responsibility to fix the situation. Oh, and if you don't agree with me on what you should do, then you pretty much deserve what happened" thing.

Seems reasonable enough to respond with a "fuck you" to that.

Except that I haven't done anything of the kind.

I don't think she has to do anything at all. She can ignore it, do something about it, get pissed, whatever. Entirely her choice.

I am simply stating that *I*, personally, me, have no sympathy for someone who is apparently this upset by being treated badly, who will then turn around and refuse to do anything about it, especially when doing something about it is  Surely I ahve that right, correct? I don't HAVE to feel bad for Meri, do I?

A) Not very hard,
B) Almost completely safe, and
C) Meri is an adult. I've met her. I know what kind of person she is, and she isn't the type to get all terrified of calling someone out when they are like a dumbass.

To coin her phrase, I do in fact think she should get he big girl panties on and do something about it other than bitch on languish. Absent that *and I recognize that SHE has every right to do nothing if in fact that is what she wants*, then *I* have every right to not care that some dumbass teacher somewhere is, well, a dumbass. Does the fact that I don't sympathize for her plight warrant me being told to fuck off? If so, I guess I deserve it, but in that case it doesn't hurt all that much.

I also don't buy the idea that said teacher is indicative of anything systemic in the entire industry of CS education in America, wiki articles notwithstanding. Mostly I think it is indicative that there are individuals out there who are still stuck in the 1950s. But we knew that, right?

[Iormlund]

The part that really pisses me off is that I know that any success that I have he's going to put it down to my being "organized" rather than anything else. 

Not a bad thing in itself, actually. I would never, ever hire a "disorganized" programmer. No matter how clever someone is, if nobody else can figure out what the hell he was doing he's got no place writing code.

[derspiess]

Mostly I think it is indicative that there are individuals out there who are still stuck in the 1950s. But we knew that, right?

HEY NOW

[Berkut]

My eyes glaze over when you mention reports to HR.

Well I don't know what the actual process is, but I am sure there is one. Every school of higher learning has entire battalions of people to make sure nobody is being discriminated against, right?

[Valmy]

Naw, the thing that is going to change that kind of behaviour is female profs in the faculty.

Not sure what that has to do with it.  There are female science and math profs out there, or does he require there actually be one within a mile radius of him personally?

[garbon]

My eyes glaze over when you mention reports to HR.

Well I don't know what the actual process is, but I am sure there is one. Every school of higher learning has entire battalions of people to make sure nobody is being discriminated against, right?

HR is a department of useless devils.