Why women don't study computer programming - AAR of my first class

[Berkut]

I will say this - this is NOT the reason women don't study CS.

You are mixing up cause and effect Meri. You were treated weirdly because so few women take CS courses.

Although I have a degree in CS, and I never saw anything even remotely similar to what you described happen in any course I ever took. Any professor who made grossly sexist remarks like that would have been fired immediately if it happened more than once (the first time they get sent to sensitivity training, second time they are gone), even if they did think they were trying to help. Most universities I am aware of are hyper-conscious of discrimination issues.

[CountDeMoney]

Meri just picked the wrong class at the wrong time to be the only MLIF within hunting range, s'all.

[merithyn]

I will say this - this is NOT the reason women don't study CS.

You are mixing up cause and effect Meri. You were treated weirdly because so few women take CS courses.

Although I have a degree in CS, and I never saw anything even remotely similar to what you described happen in any course I ever took. Any professor who made grossly sexist remarks like that would have been fired immediately if it happened more than once (the first time they get sent to sensitivity training, second time they are gone), even if they did think they were trying to help. Most universities I am aware of are hyper-conscious of discrimination issues.

The title was a joke, Berk. I'm well-aware that there are a lot of reasons that women don't take CS classes (though the Wiki article did rank this kind of behavior as one of the top four reasons).

So are you recommending that I file a complaint?

[CountDeMoney]

Let us know when the first guy offers to help you after class, Meri.

[merithyn]

Let us know when the first guy offers to help you after class, Meri.

One already has. Should they not have?





Of course, it was my husband, but still....

[CountDeMoney]

NO NO NO THAT DOESNT COUNT

[Berkut]

I will say this - this is NOT the reason women don't study CS.

You are mixing up cause and effect Meri. You were treated weirdly because so few women take CS courses.

Although I have a degree in CS, and I never saw anything even remotely similar to what you described happen in any course I ever took. Any professor who made grossly sexist remarks like that would have been fired immediately if it happened more than once (the first time they get sent to sensitivity training, second time they are gone), even if they did think they were trying to help. Most universities I am aware of are hyper-conscious of discrimination issues.

The title was a joke, Berk. I'm well-aware that there are a lot of reasons that women don't take CS classes (though the Wiki article did rank this kind of behavior as one of the top four reasons).

I firmly believe that the author of the wiki article almost certainly wants us to believe this is one of the top reasons.

So are you recommending that I file a complaint?

If he actually said exactly what you said he said, of course you should.

[The Brain]

Obviously you should complain. If you people don't have vyctymhood, what do you have?

[derspiess]

Maybe just flashing her tits in class would relieve all the tension.

[lustindarkness]

Maybe just flashing her tits in class would relieve all the tension.

and we want video of the event too.

[The Brain]

IMHO she should make a man. With blond hair and a tan.

[merithyn]

I firmly believe that the author of the wiki article almost certainly wants us to believe this is one of the top reasons.

Actually, a study done by Women & Information Technology from MITPress says it is true. A bit about the study according to the authors:

Computing remains a heavily male-dominated field even after twenty-five years of extensive efforts to promote female participation. The contributors to Women and Information Technology look at reasons for the persistent gender imbalance in computing and explore some strategies intended to reverse the downward trend. The studies included are rigorous social science investigations; they rely on empirical evidence—not rhetoric, hunches, folk wisdom, or off-the-cuff speculation about supposed innate differences between men and women.

If he actually said exactly what you said he said, of course you should.

If? Why would I lie?

Given that I have to be in this man's class for the next 15 weeks, it seems like shooting myself in the foot to report him after Day 1. I'll consider it, but again, I question the wisdom of that.

[Berkut]

I firmly believe that the author of the wiki article almost certainly wants us to believe this is one of the top reasons.

Actually, a study done by Women & Information Technology from MITPress says it is true. A bit about the study according to the authors:

Computing remains a heavily male-dominated field even after twenty-five years of extensive efforts to promote female participation. The contributors to Women and Information Technology look at reasons for the persistent gender imbalance in computing and explore some strategies intended to reverse the downward trend. The studies included are rigorous social science investigations; they rely on empirical evidence—not rhetoric, hunches, folk wisdom, or off-the-cuff speculation about supposed innate differences between men and women.

That isn't a study, it is a book. I have not read the book, but I suspect you have not either. The synopsis you gave doesn't say much aof anything about a primary reason there are not more women in computer science is because they are treated poorly in classes. Indeed, what it DOES say about it is this:

..twenty-five years of extensive efforts to promote female participation.

I don't think "humiliating" women in class really falls under estensive efforts to promote female participation.

If he actually said exactly what you said he said, of course you should.

If? Why would I lie?

Who said anything about lying? Not me.

Given that I have to be in this man's class for the next 15 weeks, it seems like shooting myself in the foot to report him after Day 1. I'll consider it, but again, I question the wisdom of that.

Then you are part of the problem. If people do not report discrimination when it is experienced because it may personally make them uncomfortable, then I don't think they have much room to complain about it. As a society, we set up myriad means of addressing pernicious problems like gender discrimination. If you decide it is too personally risky or simply not worth it to use those resources, then why complain about the discrimination? It can't be that bad if it isn't bad enough for you to take advantage of the systems setup specifically to address the issue you experienced.

All that being said, you said that you don't think the professor was even being intentionally malicious - so why would you fear him treating you even more unfairly for pointing out to him that his behavior was not acceptable? Right now, from his perspective, he is A-#1 Feminist Champion for helping the poor girl feel comfortable in this alien environment of computers and hackers. How can you complain about his attitude when you won't even bother to tell him he has done anything wrong?

[MadImmortalMan]

Pragmatism probably. Meri's objective is to learn the stuff and pass the class, not fix the guy.

[crazy canuck]

Pragmatism probably. Meri's objective is to learn the stuff and pass the class, not fix the guy.

This