Why women don't study computer programming - AAR of my first class

[merithyn]

That isn't a study, it is a book. I have not read the book, but I suspect you have not either. The synopsis you gave doesn't say much aof anything about a primary reason there are not more women in computer science is because they are treated poorly in classes. Indeed, what it DOES say about it is this:

..twenty-five years of extensive efforts to promote female participation.

I don't think "humiliating" women in class really falls under estensive efforts to promote female participation.

The book is the result of the study. The information you're looking for was quoted in the Wiki article. And if you'd stop the condescending quote marks, we can continue this conversation. Otherwise, I see no point.

Who said anything about lying? Not me.

Fine. We'll assume that you didn't mean that statement to be questioning my version.

Then you are part of the problem. If people do not report discrimination when it is experienced because it may personally make them uncomfortable, then I don't think they have much room to complain about it. As a society, we set up myriad means of addressing pernicious problems like gender discrimination. If you decide it is too personally risky or simply not worth it to use those resources, then why complain about the discrimination? It can't be that bad if it isn't bad enough for you to take advantage of the systems setup specifically to address the issue you experienced.

Because discrimination sucks? Why else would I complain about it? And how bad it was has very little bearing on how I react or not at this moment. What does have bearing on how I react is that I want to get through this program and get a job. I'm not really interested in being the banner-carrier for women's rights right now. What I want is to get paid more than poverty level wages. Once that happens, I'll be happy to shout it from the rooftops. At the moment, however, I'm more concerned with feeding my family.

I'll decide for myself if it's worth rocking the boat to the extent that you're suggesting based on what's right for my situation, not because you feel like it's what I should do based on your opinion and your interpretation.

All that being said, you said that you don't think the professor was even being intentionally malicious - so why would you fear him treating you even more unfairly for pointing out to him that his behavior was not acceptable? Right now, from his perspective, he is A-#1 Feminist Champion for helping the poor girl feel comfortable in this alien environment of computers and hackers. How can you complain about his attitude when you won't even bother to tell him he has done anything wrong?

Right now, he thinks he's doing a great job in making me feel comfortable in his class. Who knows how he'll react if I complain to his supervisor?

What I am considering doing, however, is sending him a note letting him know that I would really rather he didn't continue to discuss my gender as if it has any bearing on the class or the classwork. My hope is that he'll recognize my discomfort without feeling threatened, and maybe we can just get on in the class as if my being a woman means nothing, which is exactly the case.

Given that he lacked malice, I don't see the point in taking it beyond that step right now. If it continues, then I will, if it seems appropriate at that time. But ultimately, that's my decision to make based on my assessment of the situation. And while I appreciate your feedback, you'll have to forgive me if I don't happen to agree with all that you've espoused.

[merithyn]

Pragmatism probably. Meri's objective is to learn the stuff and pass the class, not fix the guy.

Exactly. Once I have a paycheck, I'll worry about being the Feminist-from-Hell in the IT world.

[garbon]

Because discrimination sucks? Why else would I complain about it? And how bad it was has very little bearing on how I react or not at this moment. What does have bearing on how I react is that I want to get through this program and get a job. I'm not really interested in being the banner-carrier for women's rights right now. What I want is to get paid more than poverty level wages. Once that happens, I'll be happy to shout it from the rooftops. At the moment, however, I'm more concerned with feeding my family.

I'll decide for myself if it's worth rocking the boat to the extent that you're suggesting based on what's right for my situation, not because you feel like it's what I should do based on your opinion and your interpretation.

I think that's fine as you definitely don't need to be encouraged to cause drama.   Though at the same time, I wonder if his behavior will ever change if no one calls him on it? And again though, I don't think that needs to be you.

[garbon]

Pragmatism probably. Meri's objective is to learn the stuff and pass the class, not fix the guy.

But that's also why said guy is going to keep doing this. Only person I could easily see call him out is some wide-eyed/idealistic young co-ed as any other student would adopt the pragmatic attitude.

[crazy canuck]

Pragmatism probably. Meri's objective is to learn the stuff and pass the class, not fix the guy.

But that's also why said guy is going to keep doing this. Only person I could easily see call him out is some wide-eyed/idealistic young co-ed as any other student would adopt the pragmatic attitude.

Naw, the thing that is going to change that kind of behaviour is female profs in the faculty.

[Ed Anger]

Pragmatism probably. Meri's objective is to learn the stuff and pass the class, not fix the guy.

Exactly. Once I have a paycheck, I'll worry about being the Feminist-from-Hell in the IT world.

[derspiess]

She can address it in her course review at the end of the term (assuming they still do that these days).  Plus isn't there a website that lets you write reviews on professors?

But if I were Meri and the whole thing bothered me to the point where I was almost in tears, I'd meet with the instructor during his office hours & calmly, non-threateningly explain to him what he's actually doing. 

[Berkut]

Pragmatism probably. Meri's objective is to learn the stuff and pass the class, not fix the guy.

Exactly. Once I have a paycheck, I'll worry about being the Feminist-from-Hell in the IT world.

Fair enough.

In that case though, I have little sympathy for your observation that "discrimination sucks" as it applies to you personally.

Yes, it does suck. But apparently it doesn't suck all that much, since you aren't interested in doing anything about it, since it might have some extremely slight chance of effecting your schooling in some theoretical manner. As opposed to the entirely and completely non-theoretical manner his patronizing is apparently bothering you, and likely others.

[garbon]

Pragmatism probably. Meri's objective is to learn the stuff and pass the class, not fix the guy.

Exactly. Once I have a paycheck, I'll worry about being the Feminist-from-Hell in the IT world.

Fair enough.

In that case though, I have little sympathy for your observation that "discrimination sucks" as it applies to you personally.

Yes, it does suck. But apparently it doesn't suck all that much, since you aren't interested in doing anything about it, since it might have some extremely slight chance of effecting your schooling in some theoretical manner. As opposed to the entirely and completely non-theoretical manner his patronizing is apparently bothering you, and likely others.

@ you B not Meri

[merithyn]

Pragmatism probably. Meri's objective is to learn the stuff and pass the class, not fix the guy.

But that's also why said guy is going to keep doing this. Only person I could easily see call him out is some wide-eyed/idealistic young co-ed as any other student would adopt the pragmatic attitude.

I'm seriously considering just sending him a note saying that while I appreciate his efforts in trying to make me feel more comfortable in his class, I'd really rather my gender wasn't mentioned again.

[Ed Anger]

[merithyn]

Pragmatism probably. Meri's objective is to learn the stuff and pass the class, not fix the guy.

Exactly. Once I have a paycheck, I'll worry about being the Feminist-from-Hell in the IT world.

Fair enough.

In that case though, I have little sympathy for your observation that "discrimination sucks" as it applies to you personally.

Yes, it does suck. But apparently it doesn't suck all that much, since you aren't interested in doing anything about it, since it might have some extremely slight chance of effecting your schooling in some theoretical manner. As opposed to the entirely and completely non-theoretical manner his patronizing is apparently bothering you, and likely others.

And we're back to fuck you, Berk.

[Berkut]

Pragmatism probably. Meri's objective is to learn the stuff and pass the class, not fix the guy.

But that's also why said guy is going to keep doing this. Only person I could easily see call him out is some wide-eyed/idealistic young co-ed as any other student would adopt the pragmatic attitude.

I'm seriously considering just sending him a note saying that while I appreciate his efforts in trying to make me feel more comfortable in his class, I'd really rather my gender wasn't mentioned again.

Seems like a perfectly reasonable approach. Not very dramatic, don't make a big deal about it, hell, you can even imply that it isn't HIM that is the problem, but you know, all those less understanding kids...

[Jacob]

I have little sympathy for your observation that "discrimination sucks" as it applies to you personally.

This is unsurprising.

[Berkut]

Pragmatism probably. Meri's objective is to learn the stuff and pass the class, not fix the guy.

Exactly. Once I have a paycheck, I'll worry about being the Feminist-from-Hell in the IT world.

Fair enough.

In that case though, I have little sympathy for your observation that "discrimination sucks" as it applies to you personally.

Yes, it does suck. But apparently it doesn't suck all that much, since you aren't interested in doing anything about it, since it might have some extremely slight chance of effecting your schooling in some theoretical manner. As opposed to the entirely and completely non-theoretical manner his patronizing is apparently bothering you, and likely others.

And we're back to fuck you, Berk.

Very nice Meri. I'll keep that in mind.