14-year old Pakistani girl activist shot by Taliban

Started by merithyn, October 09, 2012, 03:21:05 PM

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Queequeg

Respectable Paganism died in the 6th Century with the last followers of Iamblichus and Plotinus.
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

merithyn

Quote from: Queequeg on October 11, 2012, 12:38:34 PM
Respectable Paganism died in the 6th Century with the last followers of Iamblichus and Plotinus.

I'm not sure how the resurrgence of the past couple hundred years is less respectable. Nor why you care so much as to have such a strong opinion on how others tap their spiritual side.
Yesterday, upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish, I wish he'd go away...

Queequeg

Plotinus was a genius. Gerald Gardener made Joseph Smith look like Augustine served in Philo. Totally unworthy of the horrifying faiths they ape.
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

garbon

Quote from: Queequeg on October 11, 2012, 12:58:54 PM
Plotinus was a genius. Gerald Gardener made Joseph Smith look like Augustine served in Philo. Totally unworthy of the horrifying faiths they ape.

What does that have to do anything? How is that not true for many followers of faiths today (including followers of faiths like Christianity that haven't gone defunct but certainly changed with time)?
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Viking

Quote from: Queequeg on October 11, 2012, 12:38:34 PM
Respectable Paganism died in the 6th Century with the last followers of Iamblichus and Plotinus.


http://historyofphilosophy.net/

I love this podcast.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Viking

Quote from: merithyn on October 11, 2012, 12:49:07 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on October 11, 2012, 12:38:34 PM
Respectable Paganism died in the 6th Century with the last followers of Iamblichus and Plotinus.

I'm not sure how the resurrgence of the past couple hundred years is less respectable. Nor why you care so much as to have such a strong opinion on how others tap their spiritual side.

It is less respectable because the ancients cared if it was true. But do not that these old pagans were borderline deists since they (we at least the neo-platonists) believed in the one god, the unity, the form of forms. These guys were not the pagans of the kind "Zeus lives on Mt Olympus", they were more like "Divine Plato figured it out what the nature of the one God is."

They figured out from (what they thought were first principles) that there was only one god and that was the form of forms itself. That is what made them respectable. These guys did not trapse around forest clearings at midnight with drums and aroma candles.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

garbon

Also who says that any given neo-pagans belief stem from a Greaco-Roman tradition? There are plenty of other pagan faiths on which to draw inspiration.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

merithyn

Quote from: Queequeg on October 11, 2012, 12:58:54 PM
Plotinus was a genius. Gerald Gardener made Joseph Smith look like Augustine served in Philo. Totally unworthy of the horrifying faiths they ape.

Gerald Gardener was only one of hundreds of people who brought the resurrgence of Paganism, and he was late to the party, at that. His only claim to fame was bringing about the practice of Wiccanism in the 1950s, probably the most well-known of the Pagan faiths today, but by no means the only one or the earliest.

What about the Druid traditions that started 300+ years ago in England and came to the states 200 years ago? Very few of them claim anything whatsoever to do with the ancient traditions other than the name. They used the term because it seemed appropriate to call their nature-based philosophy something that others would recognize and understand on sight.

The reality is that there are hundreds of belief systems that fall under the "Pagan" label, and most of them look nothing like what you're describing. Some use the old gods and old symbolism because they're familiar, easy to use, and provide a good framework. Some don't use any gods at all, instead prefering to worship the idea of a God or a Higher Power. Some fall somewhere in between, seeing divinity in both gods, nature, and in the totality of it all. And some are even monotheistic, believing that the old gods are all parts of a singular divine entity.

It's just not possible to make a blanket statement that all Pagans are one thing or another. In general, they're all spiritual people who believe that there is value in the traditional methods that were used before, and that those methods can be used in some fashion today. Beyond that, it's pretty much a crapshoot what you're going to come up with. Some may not be so easy to respect, while others are actually pretty interesting and worth looking more deeply into.

And just like I tell my kids, spirituality is such a personal thing that unless someone is using their religion or spiritual path to harm others, it's really none of our business how people get from Point A to Point B in their spiritual lives.
Yesterday, upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish, I wish he'd go away...

Viking

Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 01:08:13 PM
Also who says that any given neo-pagans belief stem from a Greaco-Roman tradition? There are plenty of other pagan faiths on which to draw inspiration.

Who said that neo-paganism has to stem from Greco-Roman models? The late Classical Pagans were brought up as the last example of respectable pagans.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

merithyn

Quote from: Viking on October 11, 2012, 01:13:58 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 01:08:13 PM
Also who says that any given neo-pagans belief stem from a Greaco-Roman tradition? There are plenty of other pagan faiths on which to draw inspiration.

Who said that neo-paganism has to stem from Greco-Roman models? The late Classical Pagans were brought up as the last example of respectable pagans.

As garbon said, it's about drawing spiritual inspiration. I know that you don't see the value in that for yourself, but surely even you recognize that there must be value in finding spiritual inspiration for many or religions wouldn't exist at all.
Yesterday, upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish, I wish he'd go away...

Queequeg

Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 01:08:13 PM
Also who says that any given neo-pagans belief stem from a Greaco-Roman tradition? There are plenty of other pagan faiths on which to draw inspiration.
I said respectable. Slaughtering captured soldiers for Tiwaz, forming Thor's hammer out of the entrails of Christians, or ritual cannibalism to honor Perun isn't respectable. It was hideous, horrifying superstition.
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

Neil

I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Ed Anger

Every Wiccan I've met has been a total fruit loop.
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

CountDeMoney

Quote from: Ed Anger on October 11, 2012, 01:27:51 PM
Every Wiccan I've met has been a total fruit loop.

Worse than the granola-birkenstocks-patchouli-hairy pits crowd, definitely.

merithyn

Quote from: Queequeg on October 11, 2012, 01:25:22 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 01:08:13 PM
Also who says that any given neo-pagans belief stem from a Greaco-Roman tradition? There are plenty of other pagan faiths on which to draw inspiration.
I said respectable. Slaughtering captured soldiers for Tiwaz, forming Thor's hammer out of the entrails of Christians, or ritual cannibalism to honor Perun isn't respectable. It was hideous, horrifying superstition.

Wow. I didn't realize that modern Pagans did that! Well, since you put it that... oh wait. They don't.  <_<

Coming from your background, I would think you would be a little more understanding (and certainly less scathing) about alternative religions from the The Big Three. Surely you recognize that people have a right to find their own way without having to bend to what's most common or understood or known.
Yesterday, upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish, I wish he'd go away...