14-year old Pakistani girl activist shot by Taliban

[garbon]

As part of that though many churches got rid of ritual...now the point that I've been to churches which mainly consist of a rock band playing with bits of scripture stuffed around it.

Hell, before I left the Catholic Church, the one I attended in Schaumburg, IL, was like that. No kneelers (WTF??), no prayer candles, guitars and drums by the altar. And the "pews" were folding chairs. FOLDING CHAIRS!! *shudders*

Yeah best luck I've had so far with a semblance of what I feel is the right church environment is at the nicer Episcopalian churches as well as the High Lutheran ones.  Of course, those are also the one's that typically only have old people in attendance.

[MadImmortalMan]

As part of that though many churches got rid of ritual...now the point that I've been to churches which mainly consist of a rock band playing with bits of scripture stuffed around it.

It's all feely crap now. It's like a blasted therapy session for people to feel safe in the arms of Jesus or whatever. My god it's terrible. At least when I was a kid the church my parents attended had all the dudes get together and fix somebody's roof every now and then. There was a point to it occasionally.

[merithyn]

Yeah best luck I've had so far with a semblance of what I feel is the right church environment is at the nicer Episcopalian churches as well as the High Lutheran ones.  Of course, those are also the one's that typically only have old people in attendance.

Us high-ritual folks have got to stick together before it all dies out.

[merithyn]

And what's wrong with hippy crap? In general, it tends to lead one to being nicer and to taking care of others. Not seeing any glaring issue there.

It is culturally, philosophically, historically and intellectually degenerate.

I get the "historically degenerate" bit since most of them make up a history that goes back centuries for why they believe what they believe (when it really only goes back a few decades at most), but the rest seems a bit overboard. I don't see how Pagans are any more culturally, philosophically, or intellectually degenerate than any other religion. In fact, the Pagans I do know are mostly highly intellectual, with the odd fruitcake to make them colorful.

[Viking]

And what's wrong with hippy crap? In general, it tends to lead one to being nicer and to taking care of others. Not seeing any glaring issue there.

It is culturally, philosophically, historically and intellectually degenerate.

I get the "historically degenerate" bit since most of them make up a history that goes back centuries for why they believe what they believe (when it really only goes back a few decades at most), but the rest seems a bit overboard. I don't see how Pagans are any more culturally, philosophically, or intellectually degenerate than any other religion. In fact, the Pagans I do know are mostly highly intellectual, with the odd fruitcake to make them colorful.

They are the ultimate relativists that abandon fact to achieve "just gettin' along maan", that is why are degenerates. It takes a talented philosopher to express the truly idiotic ideas out there.

[dps]

And what's wrong with hippy crap? In general, it tends to lead one to being nicer and to taking care of others. Not seeing any glaring issue there.

It is culturally, philosophically, historically and intellectually degenerate.

I get the "historically degenerate" bit since most of them make up a history that goes back centuries for why they believe what they believe (when it really only goes back a few decades at most), but the rest seems a bit overboard. I don't see how Pagans are any more culturally, philosophically, or intellectually degenerate than any other religion. In fact, the Pagans I do know are mostly highly intellectual, with the odd fruitcake to make them colorful.

They tend to be pseudo-intellectuals more than actual intellectuals, in my experience.

[merithyn]

They are the ultimate relativists that abandon fact to achieve "just gettin' along maan", that is why are degenerates. It takes a talented philosopher to express the truly idiotic ideas out there.

Huh. Not my experience with those I know. Maybe I just happen to know the handful of intelligent Pagans out there.

[Valmy]

They are the ultimate relativists that abandon fact to achieve "just gettin' along maan", that is why are degenerates. It takes a talented philosopher to express the truly idiotic ideas out there.

I have no idea what you are talking about here.  What sort of facts are they abandoning?  What?  And 'just getting along' is idiotic?  I guess they should be doing...what exactly?  Care to express a coherent thought?

Or is this another joke? 

[merithyn]

They tend to be pseudo-intellectuals more than actual intellectuals, in my experience.

There do tend to be a lot of those in the movement, I'll grant you. But I'm not thinking any more so than in the general public. I could be wrong. That being said, the Pagans that I know are all people that I can stand to be around, ergo, not the type you're talking about. I may have filtered them out of my group of friends unintentionally.

[Valmy]

They tend to be pseudo-intellectuals more than actual intellectuals, in my experience.

Well most people who aspire to be intellectuals end up there.

[DGuller]

They tend to be pseudo-intellectuals more than actual intellectuals, in my experience.

Well most people who aspire to be intellectuals end up there.

Then again, certain segments of our society regard all intellectuals as pseudo-intellectuals.

[merithyn]

I guess I just see those who adhere to a Pagan philosophy as no different than any other group. They're no better and no worse, simply more likely to follow the path less traveled. There are fruitcakes in all religions - as well in the general population at large. There are also the psuedo-intellectuals (I find them most often among atheists, truth be told) and "go-with-the-flow" types, too.

Being Pagan doesn't, in my opinion, diminish any of these people to me anymore than being Jewish or Catholic or Buddhist does. It's their spirituality, after all. Why do I care how they find enlightenment?

[dps]

They tend to be pseudo-intellectuals more than actual intellectuals, in my experience.

There do tend to be a lot of those in the movement, I'll grant you. But I'm not thinking any more so than in the general public. I could be wrong. That being said, the Pagans that I know are all people that I can stand to be around, ergo, not the type you're talking about. I may have filtered them out of my group of friends unintentionally.

Well, there are definately pseudo-intellectuals outside of pagans, yes.  But I'd say that among the general public you tend to find people are, in general anti-intellectual rather than pseudo-intellectual.  Though I'm sure you'll find pagans who are anti-intellectual as well.

[Neil]

And what's wrong with hippy crap? In general, it tends to lead one to being nicer and to taking care of others. Not seeing any glaring issue there.

Because it leads to being poor, dirty and losing touch with reality, which is every bit as deleterious as when Jesus-screeching loons do it.  At least the religious crazies are clean.

[Viking]

They are the ultimate relativists that abandon fact to achieve "just gettin' along maan", that is why are degenerates. It takes a talented philosopher to express the truly idiotic ideas out there.

I have no idea what you are talking about here.  What sort of facts are they abandoning?  What?  And 'just getting along' is idiotic?  I guess they should be doing...what exactly?  Care to express a coherent thought?

Or is this another joke? 

"That''s just your opinion, man."

In effect they accept anybody who is not confrontational. They completely live within their own self contained subjective truth. The Hippy lifestyle lasts until they have to deal with the consequences of their invented truths. In effect they are so open minded that their brains have dropped out.

The facts they are abandoning are any facts that conflict with their own invented truths. Just getting along only works when there is a shared common set of values and view of reality, you can't just get along with hitler or charles manson.