14-year old Pakistani girl activist shot by Taliban

Started by merithyn, October 09, 2012, 03:21:05 PM

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garbon

Quote from: merithyn on October 11, 2012, 11:05:51 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 11:02:05 AM
As part of that though many churches got rid of ritual...now the point that I've been to churches which mainly consist of a rock band playing with bits of scripture stuffed around it. :bleeding:

Hell, before I left the Catholic Church, the one I attended in Schaumburg, IL, was like that. No kneelers (WTF??), no prayer candles, guitars and drums by the altar. And the "pews" were folding chairs. FOLDING CHAIRS!! *shudders*

Yeah best luck I've had so far with a semblance of what I feel is the right church environment is at the nicer Episcopalian churches as well as the High Lutheran ones.  Of course, those are also the one's that typically only have old people in attendance. :D
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

MadImmortalMan

Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 11:02:05 AM
As part of that though many churches got rid of ritual...now the point that I've been to churches which mainly consist of a rock band playing with bits of scripture stuffed around it. :bleeding:

It's all feely crap now. It's like a blasted therapy session for people to feel safe in the arms of Jesus or whatever. My god it's terrible. At least when I was a kid the church my parents attended had all the dudes get together and fix somebody's roof every now and then. There was a point to it occasionally.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

merithyn

Quote from: garbon on October 11, 2012, 11:23:16 AM
Yeah best luck I've had so far with a semblance of what I feel is the right church environment is at the nicer Episcopalian churches as well as the High Lutheran ones.  Of course, those are also the one's that typically only have old people in attendance. :D

:hug:

Us high-ritual folks have got to stick together before it all dies out. :(
Yesterday, upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish, I wish he'd go away...

merithyn

Quote from: Queequeg on October 11, 2012, 11:21:56 AM
QuoteAnd what's wrong with hippy crap? In general, it tends to lead one to being nicer and to taking care of others. Not seeing any glaring issue there.
It is culturally, philosophically, historically and intellectually degenerate.

:huh:

I get the "historically degenerate" bit since most of them make up a history that goes back centuries for why they believe what they believe (when it really only goes back a few decades at most), but the rest seems a bit overboard. I don't see how Pagans are any more culturally, philosophically, or intellectually degenerate than any other religion. In fact, the Pagans I do know are mostly highly intellectual, with the odd fruitcake to make them colorful.
Yesterday, upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish, I wish he'd go away...

Viking

Quote from: merithyn on October 11, 2012, 11:32:03 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on October 11, 2012, 11:21:56 AM
QuoteAnd what's wrong with hippy crap? In general, it tends to lead one to being nicer and to taking care of others. Not seeing any glaring issue there.
It is culturally, philosophically, historically and intellectually degenerate.

:huh:

I get the "historically degenerate" bit since most of them make up a history that goes back centuries for why they believe what they believe (when it really only goes back a few decades at most), but the rest seems a bit overboard. I don't see how Pagans are any more culturally, philosophically, or intellectually degenerate than any other religion. In fact, the Pagans I do know are mostly highly intellectual, with the odd fruitcake to make them colorful.

They are the ultimate relativists that abandon fact to achieve "just gettin' along maan", that is why are degenerates. It takes a talented philosopher to express the truly idiotic ideas out there.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

dps

Quote from: merithyn on October 11, 2012, 11:32:03 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on October 11, 2012, 11:21:56 AM
QuoteAnd what's wrong with hippy crap? In general, it tends to lead one to being nicer and to taking care of others. Not seeing any glaring issue there.
It is culturally, philosophically, historically and intellectually degenerate.

:huh:

I get the "historically degenerate" bit since most of them make up a history that goes back centuries for why they believe what they believe (when it really only goes back a few decades at most), but the rest seems a bit overboard. I don't see how Pagans are any more culturally, philosophically, or intellectually degenerate than any other religion. In fact, the Pagans I do know are mostly highly intellectual, with the odd fruitcake to make them colorful.

They tend to be pseudo-intellectuals more than actual intellectuals, in my experience.

merithyn

Quote from: Viking on October 11, 2012, 11:58:38 AM
They are the ultimate relativists that abandon fact to achieve "just gettin' along maan", that is why are degenerates. It takes a talented philosopher to express the truly idiotic ideas out there.

Huh. Not my experience with those I know. Maybe I just happen to know the handful of intelligent Pagans out there.
Yesterday, upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish, I wish he'd go away...

Valmy

Quote from: Viking on October 11, 2012, 11:58:38 AM
They are the ultimate relativists that abandon fact to achieve "just gettin' along maan", that is why are degenerates. It takes a talented philosopher to express the truly idiotic ideas out there.

I have no idea what you are talking about here.  What sort of facts are they abandoning?  What?  And 'just getting along' is idiotic?  I guess they should be doing...what exactly?  Care to express a coherent thought?

Or is this another joke?  :hmm:
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

merithyn

Quote from: dps on October 11, 2012, 12:01:12 PM
They tend to be pseudo-intellectuals more than actual intellectuals, in my experience.

There do tend to be a lot of those in the movement, I'll grant you. But I'm not thinking any more so than in the general public. I could be wrong. That being said, the Pagans that I know are all people that I can stand to be around, ergo, not the type you're talking about. I may have filtered them out of my group of friends unintentionally.
Yesterday, upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish, I wish he'd go away...

Valmy

Quote from: dps on October 11, 2012, 12:01:12 PM
They tend to be pseudo-intellectuals more than actual intellectuals, in my experience.

Well most people who aspire to be intellectuals end up there.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

DGuller

Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2012, 12:06:30 PM
Quote from: dps on October 11, 2012, 12:01:12 PM
They tend to be pseudo-intellectuals more than actual intellectuals, in my experience.

Well most people who aspire to be intellectuals end up there.
Then again, certain segments of our society regard all intellectuals as pseudo-intellectuals.

merithyn

I guess I just see those who adhere to a Pagan philosophy as no different than any other group. They're no better and no worse, simply more likely to follow the path less traveled. There are fruitcakes in all religions - as well in the general population at large. There are also the psuedo-intellectuals (I find them most often among atheists, truth be told) and "go-with-the-flow" types, too.

Being Pagan doesn't, in my opinion, diminish any of these people to me anymore than being Jewish or Catholic or Buddhist does. It's their spirituality, after all. Why do I care how they find enlightenment?
Yesterday, upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish, I wish he'd go away...

dps

Quote from: merithyn on October 11, 2012, 12:04:25 PM
Quote from: dps on October 11, 2012, 12:01:12 PM
They tend to be pseudo-intellectuals more than actual intellectuals, in my experience.

There do tend to be a lot of those in the movement, I'll grant you. But I'm not thinking any more so than in the general public. I could be wrong. That being said, the Pagans that I know are all people that I can stand to be around, ergo, not the type you're talking about. I may have filtered them out of my group of friends unintentionally.

Well, there are definately pseudo-intellectuals outside of pagans, yes.  But I'd say that among the general public you tend to find people are, in general anti-intellectual rather than pseudo-intellectual.  Though I'm sure you'll find pagans who are anti-intellectual as well.

Neil

Quote from: merithyn on October 11, 2012, 11:01:19 AM
And what's wrong with hippy crap? In general, it tends to lead one to being nicer and to taking care of others. Not seeing any glaring issue there.
Because it leads to being poor, dirty and losing touch with reality, which is every bit as deleterious as when Jesus-screeching loons do it.  At least the religious crazies are clean.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Viking

Quote from: Valmy on October 11, 2012, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: Viking on October 11, 2012, 11:58:38 AM
They are the ultimate relativists that abandon fact to achieve "just gettin' along maan", that is why are degenerates. It takes a talented philosopher to express the truly idiotic ideas out there.

I have no idea what you are talking about here.  What sort of facts are they abandoning?  What?  And 'just getting along' is idiotic?  I guess they should be doing...what exactly?  Care to express a coherent thought?

Or is this another joke?  :hmm:

"That''s just your opinion, man."

In effect they accept anybody who is not confrontational. They completely live within their own self contained subjective truth. The Hippy lifestyle lasts until they have to deal with the consequences of their invented truths. In effect they are so open minded that their brains have dropped out.

The facts they are abandoning are any facts that conflict with their own invented truths. Just getting along only works when there is a shared common set of values and view of reality, you can't just get along with hitler or charles manson.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.