Voter ID controversy

[OttoVonBismarck]

  That's why dead people voting is relatively popular.

That is certainly the one example I have hear anecdotally, but if it is happening in significant numbers, it would seem like it would be pretty easy to detect, at least after the fact.

Simply cross check the voter lists of those who have voted against public death records.

Not really a good way to stop it (you likely cannot do it systemically with our current lack of records) but if you wanted to prove that voter fraud was actually happening, it should be pretty easy to investigate after the fact.

But nobody has done so - there is no study or report showing that in election X, there where Y examples of people voting who it turns out were dead.

Not if you're talking historically, after reconstruction tons of Southern politicians were elected after thousands of dead people voted for them. Another common tactic in the South was for white politicians to have most of the blacks vote for them, since blacks were routinely driven away from polling places via violence there was no real chance of the actual black voters showing up and trying to cast a vote that had already been cast for them. This is actually why Alabama, in an early 20th century constitution, outright prohibited black voting--the logic was it was a progressive move because it stopped whites from stealing votes from blacks.

[OttoVonBismarck]

There are more problems with fraudulent absentee balloting than voter impersonation:  it just doesn't happen.

I read somewhere last week that there had only been a handful of voter impersonation charges in all the elections so far conducted in the US.  The ID thing is a solution in search of a problem.  The absentee ballot fraud issue is real, though; there have been documented cases of partisan election officials destroying thousands of absentee ballots.

There is a case working its way through the Federal courts I read about a few weeks ago in the WaPo about a very rural county in West Virginia where one of the county commissioners and the county sheriff were going door to door to "help" elderly residents fill out absentee ballots. In addition, I guess that was too much leg work so near election day they just filled out a bunch of absentee ballots for people and dropped them into the box. (Not that it matters, but these were Democrat officials.)

The county in question had elections that might have 900 votes going to the winner and 600 votes going to the loser, so with low numbers like that it's very easy to rig the elections that way.

[OttoVonBismarck]

This was the case I was talking about:

By Steven Adams

CHARLESTON, W.V., Jan 30 (Reuters) - A West Virginia sheriff pleaded guilty to voter fraud in the state's 2010 primary election including illegally filling in some absentee ballots out of fear he might lose a close election, authorities said on Monday.

Lincoln County, West Virginia Sheriff Jerry Bowman admitted falsifying absentee ballots in a case stemming from an investigation by federal authorities, the U.S. Attorney's office said.

Also pleading guilty to lying to investigators was Lincoln County Clerk Donald Whitten, the U.S. Attorney said.

"I want the case to send a simple message: you cannot steal election in southern West Virginia," said U.S. Attorney Booth Goodwin. "Honest elections are worth fighting for."

Bowman, 58, admitted falsifying more than 100 absentee ballots, was illegally in the same room as voters marking absentee ballots and sometimes marked the ballots himself, authorities said.

He was running for circuit clerk at the time and concerned about a close election, court documents said.

Bowman appeared to have won the primary but about 200 contested absentee ballots were later thrown out, making incumbent Circuit Clerk Charles Brumfield the victor.

Whitten, 62, admitted to making a false statement about his roll in the conspiracy, in which he provided absentee ballots. He faces up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

Both men, who are Democrats, also agreed to resign from office and never seek office again.

The pair also agreed to cooperate as the U.S. Attorney's office and West Virginia Secretary of State continue their investigation into the southern West Virginia elections.

Neither man has been arraigned yet.

Several years ago, Lincoln County's Circuit Clerk and Assessor were convicted of felonies for vote buying after tampering with the 2004 Democratic primary. That same assessor, Jerry Weaver, is running for sheriff, despite being a felon.

[CountDeMoney]

Absentee ballots as opposed to voter impersonation at the polling place.  Yeah, Voter ID requirements will certainly address those concerns.  Damned West Virginny Democrats.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Absentee ballots as opposed to voter impersonation at the polling place.  Yeah, Voter ID requirements will certainly address those concerns.  Damned West Virginny Democrats.

Right, it has nothing to do with voter ID.

But West Virginia is basically a hell hole, it's like driving in a time machine back to the South in the 1970s or so. Great hunting though. And if you own property in western VA that abuts the state line, you can easily take deer on the West Virginia side and bring them back to Virginia without having to tag them in West Virginia or pay for the expensive West Virginia out of state hunting license. 

[CountDeMoney]

But West Virginia is basically a hell hole, it's like driving in a time machine back to the South in the 1970s or so. Great hunting though. And if you own property in western VA that abuts the state line, you can easily take deer on the West Virginia side and bring them back to Virginia without having to tag them in West Virginia or pay for the expensive West Virginia out of state hunting license. 

Considering how there are still ways you can drive from Huntington to Charleston without ever getting onto a paved road, I don't doubt it.

Everything south and west of Clarksburg, with the exception of Kanawha County, is the Wild West with trees.

[sbr]

Oregon doesn't have polling places anymore, everything is vote by mail.

[The Brain]

A few weeks before the election the Block Supervisor stops by every apartment and you tell him how you vote and he notes it on his list. At election day he goes to the polling station and delivers the list to the local Election Leader. It's pretty efficient.

[Tonitrus]

Forget needing a physical ID, just use our SSNs.

Problem solved.  Unless someone steals your SSN.

[PDH]

Forget needing a physical ID, just use our SSNs.

Problem solved.  Unless someone steals your SSN.

Not everyone has a sub.

[Tonitrus]

Forget needing a physical ID, just use our SSNs.

Problem solved.  Unless someone steals your SSN.

Not everyone has a sub.

Not to mention the SSBNs thinking they're vote should count more. 

[Ideologue]

If I had an SSBN, I can assure you that you would no longer need worry about the registration of voters.

[garbon]

Got a letter on Saturday asking me to apply to be a election day poll worker.

[CountDeMoney]

Got a letter on Saturday asking me to apply to be a election day poll worker.

You could wear your best heels and matching handbag.

[Martinus]

Guys, I know all the "arguments" against the voter ID requirement - I watch the Daily Show. The thing is, they are just not convincing. The fact that voting fraud is so rare is not a good argument, really - I find it surprising but in itself it's as good an argument as the one saying you shouldn't get health insurance if you have never been sick before. And the inconvenience for the too stupid or too lazy to get a free ID card is not really convincing either.