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Voter ID controversy

Started by Martinus, August 17, 2012, 01:44:44 AM

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Valmy

Quote from: Strix on August 17, 2012, 03:32:08 PM
Your position is that the Republicans want a Voter ID to prevent masses of Democrat voters from casting ballots. Your strawmen is that the Republicans are backdooring the Democrats by creating a system that unfairly targets urban aka inner city people who usually vote largely for Democrats. You attempt to prop up this strawman with a fairy tale about the lack of proper ID that urban aka inner city people as compared to suburban dwellers.  You than reinforce the strawman with a fallacy about people without licenses being unable to get to the DMV (or similar place) because they don't drive.

A Strawman = a position Strix doesn't like? :lol:
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Habbaku

People really shouldn't use terms they aren't familiar with.  :(
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.

-J. R. R. Tolkien

DGuller

Quote from: Berkut on August 17, 2012, 04:08:26 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 17, 2012, 03:29:35 PM
Watching Berkut and Strix debate is like watching that video where a monkey is using a frog as a fleshlight.

I am not sure what that means.

I will assume you are mocking me for bothering to actually argue with Strixgovory, in which case I am duly shamed.
I was going for the rape analogy.  However, in this case, this isn't just any rape;  this is a rape where the victim is just so unable to fight back that it's comical.  Hence a monkey raping a frog.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVE60zwXx1k

Sigh, sometimes my analogies are too refined for the boorish audience here.  :(

The Brain

Isn't it really necessary to use the term rape in this instance?
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

DGuller

Quote from: The Brain on August 17, 2012, 04:16:36 PM
Isn't it really necessary to use the term rape in this instance?
Well, Strix was asking for it in this thread, so maybe you have a point.  :hmm:

Eddie Teach

Having ID is pretty much required for taking part in modern society in so many ways beyond just voting, I don't see why this is such a big deal.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Razgovory

Quote from: Berkut on August 17, 2012, 04:08:26 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 17, 2012, 03:29:35 PM
Watching Berkut and Strix debate is like watching that video where a monkey is using a frog as a fleshlight.

I am not sure what that means.

I will assume you are mocking me for bothering to actually argue with Strixgovory, in which case I am duly shamed.

Strix should be equally ashamed to argue with you.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

derspiess

I'm ashamed I'm not bothering to argue in this thread.  But it's quittin' time on a Friday, so I'm going to get started with whatever the hell I'm doing this weekend...
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

garbon

Quote from: derspiess on August 17, 2012, 04:31:08 PM
I'm ashamed I'm not bothering to argue in this thread.  But it's quittin' time on a Friday, so I'm going to get started with whatever the hell I'm doing this weekend...

Pretty sure we captured your opinion when you started the same thread in April.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Berkut

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 17, 2012, 04:24:07 PM
Having ID is pretty much required for taking part in modern society in so many ways beyond just voting, I don't see why this is such a big deal.

That is actually why it is a pretty clever move on the part of the Republicans. At first glance, it seems like such a perfectly reasonable position to take - after all, it doesn't seem all that onerous to ask someone to prove they are who they say they are when it comes time to cast a ballot, and really, who in the hell does not have ID anyway?
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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dps

Quote from: Berkut on August 17, 2012, 06:10:07 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 17, 2012, 04:24:07 PM
Having ID is pretty much required for taking part in modern society in so many ways beyond just voting, I don't see why this is such a big deal.

That is actually why it is a pretty clever move on the part of the Republicans. At first glance, it seems like such a perfectly reasonable position to take - after all, it doesn't seem all that onerous to ask someone to prove they are who they say they are when it comes time to cast a ballot, and really, who in the hell does not have ID anyway?

My experience has been that while urban residents are much more likely to not drive, and therefore not have driver's licenses, they mostly do have state-issued non-driver's IDs.

If you really want to cut down on voting fraud via IDs, don't require them to vote--require them to register to vote.

grumbler

Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 17, 2012, 07:36:16 AM
There are more problems with fraudulent absentee balloting than voter impersonation:  it just doesn't happen.

I read somewhere last week that there had only been a handful of voter impersonation charges in all the elections so far conducted in the US.  The ID thing is a solution in search of a problem.  The absentee ballot fraud issue is real, though; there have been documented cases of partisan election officials destroying thousands of absentee ballots.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

grumbler

Quote from: Strix on August 17, 2012, 03:32:08 PM
*yawn*

Your position is that the Republicans want a Voter ID to prevent masses of Democrat voters from casting ballots. Your strawmen is that the Republicans are backdooring the Democrats by creating a system that unfairly targets urban aka inner city people who usually vote largely for Democrats. You attempt to prop up this strawman with a fairy tale about the lack of proper ID that urban aka inner city people as compared to suburban dwellers.  You than reinforce the strawman with a fallacy about people without licenses being unable to get to the DMV (or similar place) because they don't drive.

:moon:
:lmfao:  You should probably find out what a strawman argument is before you use the term again. 
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

katmai

Quote from: dps on August 17, 2012, 08:05:59 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 17, 2012, 06:10:07 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 17, 2012, 04:24:07 PM
Having ID is pretty much required for taking part in modern society in so many ways beyond just voting, I don't see why this is such a big deal.

That is actually why it is a pretty clever move on the part of the Republicans. At first glance, it seems like such a perfectly reasonable position to take - after all, it doesn't seem all that onerous to ask someone to prove they are who they say they are when it comes time to cast a ballot, and really, who in the hell does not have ID anyway?

My experience has been that while urban residents are much more likely to not drive, and therefore not have driver's licenses, they mostly do have state-issued non-driver's IDs.

If you really want to cut down on voting fraud via IDs, don't require them to vote--require them to register to vote.

For Alaska you need one of the following to register.

Quote
If you are not already registered to vote in Alaska and you are initially registering to vote by mail, fax or email, please submit a copy of one of the below types of identification with your voter registration application:

current and valid photo identification;
driver's license;
passport;
state identification card; or
birth certificate.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son

Sheilbh

Quote from: Tamas on August 17, 2012, 07:23:30 AM

I seriously admire the American take on this (and the British one, altough IIRC they do have voter cards?)
You don't need your polling card to vote though. There's almost no incidences of voter fraud. The one's that have come up in recent years have been through postal voting/absentee ballots.

My view is simple, if you have compulsory ID laws this is fine. If not, then it's not. Right now I've no valid ID.

Aside from that I agree with Berk and think it's a disgrace.
Let's bomb Russia!