It's morning in Obama's America

[Phillip V]

I still think Hillary would've made a better president.

There's 2016.

[Razgovory]

Another revision. The narrative at the time was that Clinton needed to step aside early and let Obama focus on the general election; that her attacks like the March 2008 "3 AM phone call" were destroying Obama's election chances and irrevocably dividing the Democratic base.

Nonsense.  People were saying what Sheilbh was saying in 2008.  It was also noted that the stuff about the crazy preacher guy came out in the spring, and had less impact in the fall.  If had come out in August, it would have hurt Obama much worse.

[CountDeMoney]

I still think Hillary would've made a better president.

There's 2016.

Yeah, I think she's burned out with from the SecState gig, and she's going to step aside from public service for 4 years. I think it'll be difficult for her to ramp up a presidential campaign after that.

[Razgovory]

I agree Hill would have made a better Pres.  Woman's tough as nails.

[Sheilbh]

Another revision. The narrative at the time was that Clinton needed to step aside early and let Obama focus on the general election; that her attacks like the March 2008 "3 AM phone call" were destroying Obama's election chances and irrevocably dividing the Democratic base.

But they didn't destroy Obama's election chance or divide the Democratic base.  Obama had to deal with the 3 AM call issue, and Jeremiah Wright, in April winning an election which was, as Raz says, far better than having to deal with it in August or, God forbid, October. 

Also you just need to look at the debates.  The first debates were underwhelming, especially for Obama, and by the end both Obama and Clinton were on another level.  You can see this in the Republican election now.  So far I think Romney's been on another level (except for Paul who, God bless him, is quite literally on another level) because he was strengthened by 2008.  But I think Gingrich, Santorum and Huntsman have got stronger as the campaign's gone on and are not at the same sort of place.

[Martinus]

So apparently Huntsman is surging now. I love the fact that the GOP hates Romney so much, they will consider not only voting for Santorum instead, but also voting for someone who is essentially a Romney's clone. 

[Sheilbh]

So apparently Huntsman is surging now. I love the fact that the GOP hates Romney so much, they will consider not only voting for Santorum instead, but also voting for someone who is essentially a Romney's clone. 

Huntsman's actually pretty conservative, possesses some charm and apparently has a set of core beliefs.  All of that distinguishes him from Romney.

The record of a Governor of Utah will always be different from a Governor of Massachussetts.  Huntsman just sounds moderate because he talks about 'civility' and other such insane concepts.

One thing I find really striking is that, with the exception of Perry who has no hope, all the remaining candidates are Mormon or Catholic.  That's impressive given the Republican party's history.  I think there's been a similar movement on the Supreme Court, they're all Catholics with a couple of Jews.

Edit:  For example Huntsman's been described as the most successful pro-life executive in America. 

[Admiral Yi]

Huntsman went down in my book yesterday when he demagogued Romney's gaffe about enjoying firing people who give him services.

[Phillip V]

So apparently Huntsman is surging now. I love the fact that the GOP hates Romney so much, they will consider not only voting for Santorum instead, but also voting for someone who is essentially a Romney's clone. 

Last Sunday morning's debate was Huntsman's best. Too bad it came so late and 10 hours directly after another debate the night before.

He was eloquent and right to start off and then laid out specific well-received proposals later on. He totally bested Romney on moral standing and virtue in defending his service as Ambassador to China. If people only saw his performance that morning, then he deserved a well-earned bump.

See the morning debate here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032553/

[Phillip V]

Huntsman went down in my book yesterday when he demagogued Romney's gaffe about enjoying firing people who give him services.

The Huntsman-Romney family rivalry goes back decades and is quite bitter and under-handed. There is no room for two Mormons.

[CountDeMoney]

Huntsman went down in my book yesterday when he demagogued Romney's gaffe about enjoying firing people who give him services.

Oh, come on.  If he didn't do it, somebody else would've.  I blame Romney for laying his dick out to have a sound bite taken out of it.

[Admiral Yi]

If he didn't do it, somebody else would've.

That's a pretty high standard.

[Sheilbh]

I think regardless of the damagoguing that that was a gaffe that will hurt Romney.  Unfairly perhaps, but that's the game.

[Admiral Yi]

I think regardless of the damagoguing that that was a gaffe that will hurt Romney.  Unfairly perhaps, but that's the game.

Regardless of the game, people who demagogue unfairly should be held to account.

[Sheilbh]

Regardless of the game, people who demagogue unfairly should be held to account.

I don't think so.  I think we'd have different ideas of demagoguing if it came to it. 

Anyway I find the personal attacks more troubling.  The sort of thing Palin or Gordon Brown had to endure is wrong.