Iran warns the US carrier against returning to the Persian gulf

[HisMajestyBOB]

IIRC, Van Riper apparently used that at the....I think it was all the way up to the theater level.  As in: motorcycle couriers were relaying ALL communication from Lieutenants (or whatever) in the field to the big man up top.  All of it.  That's a lot of fucking motorcycles.  Also IIRC, he also turned all of his supply trucks into missile launchers (heh), used fishing boats that were ignored by the "game" as suicide ships (he knew they were ignored by the "game" rules, but not in real life), etc.



Maybe g knows more.  I'm going off of shit I heard a long time ago, and every time it comes up, I seem to remember less and less.  Ugh.  My second year in the Navy was "a long time ago" now.  My ship has been scrapped, and the places I worked before that don't exist anymore.  Ugh.

Edit:  Oh my ship might still exist.  As of 2010, according to Wiki, the status was still "awaiting scrapping."

Scrapping by oxidation.

[Capetan Mihali]

I think the main point is that it is abundantly clear by now that the US government doesn't give a shit about the civilian/humanitarian repercussions of its sanctions.

Is this a serious statement?

Mainly thinking of the Iraq sanctions, but yes.

[Valmy]

Mainly thinking of the Iraq sanctions, but yes.

Yeah those really bugged me.  To the point I was pretty eager to invade them so at least we could stop with the sanctions.

But again the primary factor was Iraq's government.  It was fine with their people starving and that made it pretty difficult for the US government.  I mean what are they supposed to do?  Say if you ruthless we will not sanction you and only sanction goverments who are not?

[Darth Wagtaros]

In a wargame as Iran a US general managed to sink a carrier and some escorts using kamikaze speed boats and a fuckton of missiles. However the Navy said he broke the rules of the game and it didn't count.     

I love how the ignorant Timmays of the world make the general (who didn't understand the first thing about the realities of naval engagements) the "good guy" since he basically simply assumed that he won, announced that he won, and couldn't explain how he could have won.

Any exercise in which Red Forces assume that they have 100% operability/reliability, 100% situation awareness in 100% of their forces, and 100% communications reliability probably shouldn't count, even if that makes Timmays roll their eyes.  Maybe even especially when Timmays do that.

I remember when this was first reported and it sounded like the guy was told to pretend he was screwed and to just roll over for the Blue FOrce, but it was never clear on just how much he was gaming the system, or how much the Pentagon was to justify its own policies.

[Berkut]

I think the main point is that it is abundantly clear by now that the US government doesn't give a shit about the civilian/humanitarian repercussions of its sanctions.

Yes, that is certainly the main point.

[Berkut]

I think the main point is that it is abundantly clear by now that the US government doesn't give a shit about the civilian/humanitarian repercussions of its sanctions.

Is this a serious statement?

Mainly thinking of the Iraq sanctions, but yes.

Right, didn't the US kill more Iraqi children than had been born in the last two centuries with that one?

[Valmy]

Right, didn't the US kill more Iraqi children than had been born in the last two centuries with that one?

The numbers were pretty staggering.

[grumbler]

I remember when this was first reported and it sounded like the guy was told to pretend he was screwed and to just roll over for the Blue FOrce, but it was never clear on just how much he was gaming the system, or how much the Pentagon was to justify its own policies.

Von Ripper's problem was that he was a specops type who didn't understand anything about the problems of localizing and identifying ships at sea, as well as overcoming deception efforts and communicating effectively with widely-dispersed forces.  What he claimed he could do with fishing vessels couldn't be done, nor could they communicate the resulots of their efforts back to the shore HQ without using radios, nor could the HQ disseminate its firing orders by motorcycle to widely-dispersed launchers (whose locations were not even known to the HQ sending the orders nor the couriers carrying the orders) and carrying out a simultaneous pinpoint-accurate mass launch (based on tageting magically provided by the fishing boats and somehow not obsolete).  The whole von Ripper scenario was laughable, and would only have been proposed by someone so ignorant of the facts that he wasn't even aware how ignorant he was.

That doesn't mean the exercise was not valuable.  The Blue-Red freeplay CPX was a tiny portion of the overall exercise.

[grumbler]

I think the main point is that it is abundantly clear by now that the US government doesn't give a shit about the civilian/humanitarian repercussions of its sanctions.

Yes, that is certainly the main point.

Well, if CM says so, then we must certainly believe it.....













is completely and laughably false. 

[grumbler]

Right, didn't the US kill more Iraqi children than had been born in the last two centuries with that one?

The numbers were pretty staggering.

Yep.  I don't think they will be able to have a single live birth until 2014, to make up for the numbers killed by the US but not yet born.

[Jacob]

Right, didn't the US kill more Iraqi children than had been born in the last two centuries with that one?

The numbers were pretty staggering.

Yep.  I don't think they will be able to have a single live birth until 2014, to make up for the numbers killed by the US but not yet born.

Oh you and your strawmen.

[Razgovory]

I think the main point is that it is abundantly clear by now that the US government doesn't give a shit about the civilian/humanitarian repercussions of its sanctions.

Is this a serious statement?

Don't answer that, yi lacks moral authority.

[Admiral Yi]

Mainly thinking of the Iraq sanctions, but yes.

The reason I ask is I could see it as hyperbole (there have been times when the US has not been as concerned about the humanitarian effects of sanctions as I would wish) but it doesn't work at all as a literal statement of fact.  The US responded to the claims of civilian suffering caused by the Iraqi sanction regime to approve the food for oil program.  A country that is utterly indifferent to human suffering doesn't do that.

[Admiral Yi]

Don't answer that, yi lacks moral authority.

Perfect.

[Razgovory]

Considering how narrow the straight is, if Iran tried isnt it rather likely that they would sink or seriously damage a transiting carrier? If so, its a pretty big bet to call when you send the carrier in there again. On the other hand you cant really not send to carrier in since it would signal that Iran can dictate what passes through the strait...

I'm not sure the Iranians have enough shitty Silkworm platforms in the area to properly coordinate and effectively saturate a carrier battle group escorted by two Aegis cruisers.  But the political damage of even one getting through to ding a picket ship, let alone an aircraft carrier, would be horrendous.

The problem with the Gulf is definitively a "sucker punch" scenario for a fleet.  Once hostilities were under way the Navy could probably destroy all the radar stations and command and control locations to prevent any more of that shit.  There are some other problems though.  The Iranians probably have some medium range ballistic missiles and they might be hit the naval base in Bahrain (and the Air force base in Qatar).  The army (or whatever para-military force they have), could possibly infiltrate into Afghanistan NVA style.  I don't know how well that would work, but it's not impossible.  The area is pretty rugged, and it might be possible to move forces without the US finding out.  God only knows what they could do in Iraq.